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Scalable Self-Destruct Timers
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Lord Aliventi
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-12-27 02:35:40 UTC
Problem: Aside from podding yourself, the self-destruct mechanism is mainly used now days to just deny the people shooting at your ship a KM. You're going to kill my Nyx? Not if I SD it first. Also, it's a get out of jail free card since it won't show up on any killboards, isk-efficiency, or pilot history of kills/losses.

Why it doesn't make sense: Frigates are about the size of a 747 jet. I could see you hitting a button in one of those and 2 minutes later enough goes wrong that it just explodes. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is a Super the length of 3 U.S. Aircraft Carriers and then some, and has an equivalent mass of almost 16 U.S. Aircraft Carriers, going up in 2 minutes.

Proposed Solution: Scale the self-destruct timer based on ship size. This will still give you the option of SD'ing your ship if you want, but it prevents you from using it to just save your killboard.
Frigates: 2 min
Cruisers: 4 min
BC: 5 min
BS: 8 min
Carriers: 16 min
Supercarriers: 32 min
Titans: 45 min

Feel free to point out that I just a KM. tbh that is part of the reason. I like showing off that my alliance and I killed capital ships. I find Eve more enjoyable when I have a record of things that I help kill.
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#2 - 2011-12-27 02:47:22 UTC
Eve would be a better game if km's were deleted entirely and replaced with a basic pilot statistics page. Said page would give no detailed information, only a basic k/d ratio (where 10 guys killing 1 dude is 1/10th of a kill, not 1 but it's still obviously 1 loss for the loser), a listing by ship class and perhaps an isk efficiency (previously mentioned adjustment applies). Too many people chasing km's and erroneous isk efficiency rather than just trying to have a good time imho.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-12-27 04:01:29 UTC
King Rothgar wrote:
Eve would be a better game if km's were deleted entirely and replaced with a basic pilot statistics page. Said page would give no detailed information, only a basic k/d ratio (where 10 guys killing 1 dude is 1/10th of a kill, not 1 but it's still obviously 1 loss for the loser), a listing by ship class and perhaps an isk efficiency (previously mentioned adjustment applies). Too many people chasing km's and erroneous isk efficiency rather than just trying to have a good time imho.


I quite agree with this, there is nothing more annoying than killboards imho. People rely on them to much, they do give some very good intel, but in the end it's to much about KB efficiency more than actually enjoying the game.

I believe that Killlboards are one of the main reasons small gang pvp doen't really thrive, many people are to scared to have a loss on there Killboard. So scared that they won't even attempt a 1v1 in lowsec without back up, even if they know that they will win the fight hands down.

Just my 2 isk, remove killmails entirely.

As for the OP, +1 on the timers, but frigates should start at 30 Sec and titans should end at the 15-16 min mark, Pods should take 10 seconds.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#4 - 2011-12-27 04:08:14 UTC
King Rothgar wrote:
Eve would be a better game if km's were deleted entirely and replaced with a basic pilot statistics page. Said page would give no detailed information, only a basic k/d ratio (where 10 guys killing 1 dude is 1/10th of a kill, not 1 but it's still obviously 1 loss for the loser), a listing by ship class and perhaps an isk efficiency (previously mentioned adjustment applies). Too many people chasing km's and erroneous isk efficiency rather than just trying to have a good time imho.




this....

Isk effieciency never made much sense to me. many stupid deaths masked by decent isk effeciency. Ho a few cap kills....and several mistakes magically disappeeared. 6 "good" cap kills at a total of 7+ billion to bury stupid deaths to recon bait I should have avoided. Hell tbh, had more fun and learned more blowing up trying to kill crap I couldn't than jumping on a mail with 15 of my alliance/corp mates tbh.
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2011-12-27 04:08:57 UTC
Next time you should cry about your failings less and just bring more dps
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-12-27 05:15:38 UTC
Lord Aliventi wrote:
butthurt Oops

F*cking forums ate my post just as I relized I forgot to copy it, so I am just going point out this fact:

2 minutes: Who doesn't know that?

And you didn't plan on destroying it faster then that? Whose fault is it then you didn't have enough damage?

Also, being that EVE allows you to troll and sandbox how you want; SD is fine because killboards being player content have zero effect on actual gameplay. You don't need a reason to shoot someone and you don't need an actual record of it because the only thing thats actualy affected is the market and some wallets as isk is shifted around to replace it. If its gone, its gone and its not getting away risk free. SD is to just get you to pucker up your butthole in annoyance and make you squirm in your seat in annoyance on how you failed to kill something. Who doesn't enjoy doing that to someone? Twisted
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#7 - 2011-12-27 05:37:29 UTC
Remove killmails instead. Problem solved.

Overhaul Dscan!
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#8 - 2011-12-27 09:31:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
I agree with all the respondents in this topic thus far.

Remove Killmails. A Bells for all of you.


The SD mechanism on 2 mins regardless of ship size works fine as is.

What needs fixing tho, is this "I wanna pitch up with 2 brosefs in frigates and kill a super out of spite, then emo rage quit if he SDs out of counter-spite because i was to stupid to bring enough dps" mentality.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
QFX
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-12-27 11:00:55 UTC
vouch
QFX
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-12-27 11:02:40 UTC  |  Edited by: QFX
Ines Tegator wrote:
Remove killmails instead. Problem solved.


This wouldnt solve any problem.
The fact that one self destructs its NOT ENTIRELY for the killmail, who the hell cares (in this case), its more for the fact to say: "You didnt kill me, I self destructed myself"


Ok man? Missioner..


edit: Or in a more detailed explanation to not give them the pleasure of killing him.
Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#11 - 2012-01-04 22:20:51 UTC
yes, to both points on this topic.

+1 remove kill mails completely, or replace with an accurate kd ratio

+1 have self destruct timer in relation to size of ship. but should not go over 10 to 15 minutes with titans.
Tidurious
Blatant Alt Corp
#12 - 2012-01-05 09:29:57 UTC
The self destruct implies (as I'm sure you've seen when you look at the box that appears when you blow up your ship) that explosives are already in your ship. These explosives take a little time to arm and to give you time to re-consider your decision. That is the reason for the two minute timer. That is why a Rifter and a Supercap take the same time to explode.

Killmails are silly, but they will never be removed by CCP - a lot of people would quit this game if they couldn't get their rocks off by getting a better ranking on battleclinic or other sites. It's pathetic, but it's the truth.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#13 - 2012-01-05 13:49:15 UTC
Tidurious wrote:
The self destruct implies (as I'm sure you've seen when you look at the box that appears when you blow up your ship) that explosives are already in your ship. These explosives take a little time to arm and to give you time to re-consider your decision. That is the reason for the two minute timer. That is why a Rifter and a Supercap take the same time to explode.

Killmails are silly, but they will never be removed by CCP - a lot of people would quit this game if they couldn't get their rocks off by getting a better ranking on battleclinic or other sites. It's pathetic, but it's the truth.

Justifying in game mechanics with RP Roll

Lord Aliventi wrote:
Problem: Aside from podding yourself, the self-destruct mechanism is mainly used now days to just deny the people shooting at your ship a KM. You're going to kill my Nyx? Not if I SD it first. Also, it's a get out of jail free card since it won't show up on any killboards, isk-efficiency, or pilot history of kills/losses.

Why it doesn't make sense: Frigates are about the size of a 747 jet. I could see you hitting a button in one of those and 2 minutes later enough goes wrong that it just explodes. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is a Super the length of 3 U.S. Aircraft Carriers and then some, and has an equivalent mass of almost 16 U.S. Aircraft Carriers, going up in 2 minutes.

Proposed Solution: Scale the self-destruct timer based on ship size. This will still give you the option of SD'ing your ship if you want, but it prevents you from using it to just save your killboard.
Frigates: 2 min
Cruisers: 4 min
BC: 5 min
BS: 8 min
Carriers: 16 min
Supercarriers: 32 min
Titans: 45 min

Feel free to point out that I just a KM. tbh that is part of the reason. I like showing off that my alliance and I killed capital ships. I find Eve more enjoyable when I have a record of things that I help kill.

I support this but the timers are too long, maybe half them. For example a battlecruiser wouldn't last 5 minutes, even against another solo battlecruiser. Same with a battleship, 8 minutes makes it nigh on impossible to self destruct in combat, which IMHO is bad.

The supercaps and titans thing I'll leave to people who do nullsec warfare. Personally I'd like to see the timers long enough that a small gang could kill them (by small gang, I mean about ten dreads, a few spider carriers and some neut ships), but I don't know how long they should be for those massive multiple supercap and titan fleet fights.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Goose99
#14 - 2012-01-05 16:49:39 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Tidurious wrote:
The self destruct implies (as I'm sure you've seen when you look at the box that appears when you blow up your ship) that explosives are already in your ship. These explosives take a little time to arm and to give you time to re-consider your decision. That is the reason for the two minute timer. That is why a Rifter and a Supercap take the same time to explode.

Killmails are silly, but they will never be removed by CCP - a lot of people would quit this game if they couldn't get their rocks off by getting a better ranking on battleclinic or other sites. It's pathetic, but it's the truth.

Justifying in game mechanics with RP Roll

Lord Aliventi wrote:
Problem: Aside from podding yourself, the self-destruct mechanism is mainly used now days to just deny the people shooting at your ship a KM. You're going to kill my Nyx? Not if I SD it first. Also, it's a get out of jail free card since it won't show up on any killboards, isk-efficiency, or pilot history of kills/losses.

Why it doesn't make sense: Frigates are about the size of a 747 jet. I could see you hitting a button in one of those and 2 minutes later enough goes wrong that it just explodes. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is a Super the length of 3 U.S. Aircraft Carriers and then some, and has an equivalent mass of almost 16 U.S. Aircraft Carriers, going up in 2 minutes.

Proposed Solution: Scale the self-destruct timer based on ship size. This will still give you the option of SD'ing your ship if you want, but it prevents you from using it to just save your killboard.
Frigates: 2 min
Cruisers: 4 min
BC: 5 min
BS: 8 min
Carriers: 16 min
Supercarriers: 32 min
Titans: 45 min

Feel free to point out that I just a KM. tbh that is part of the reason. I like showing off that my alliance and I killed capital ships. I find Eve more enjoyable when I have a record of things that I help kill.

I support this but the timers are too long, maybe half them. For example a battlecruiser wouldn't last 5 minutes, even against another solo battlecruiser. Same with a battleship, 8 minutes makes it nigh on impossible to self destruct in combat, which IMHO is bad.

The supercaps and titans thing I'll leave to people who do nullsec warfare. Personally I'd like to see the timers long enough that a small gang could kill them (by small gang, I mean about ten dreads, a few spider carriers and some neut ships), but I don't know how long they should be for those massive multiple supercap and titan fleet fights.


Change "min" into "sec"

Fixed.Cool

Also, give them aoe on self destruct, dependent on ship size.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#15 - 2012-01-05 16:52:46 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Change "min" into "sec"

Fixed.Cool

Also, give them aoe on self destruct, dependent on ship size.

Cool story bro, needs moar zombies.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]