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Removing Higgs and prop mod interaction

Author
DaJokr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-10-07 01:44:02 UTC  |  Edited by: DaJokr
This is directed largely at wormholes, to my knowledge higgs rigs are not commonly used in kspace, please add examples if this is incorrect.

Recently there has been a large spike in using T3s, Luxury Yachts or cheap T1 cruisers with higgs riggs and oversized prop mods to "cowardroll" wormholes.

The cloaky option to submarine back to wormholes into jump range, or simply warp to a celestial and back while remaining nullified and under the 2s threshold for server tics enables nearly risk-free rolling right in the face of an entity prepared to fight.

It was my impression from the wormhole mass-distance changes the goal was to increase the risk of rolling, this completely bypasses those changes.

By removing the ability to use a prop mod, or possibly even just an oversized prop mod while a higgs rig is equipped, you dramatically reduce the effectiveness and increase the risk of cruiser rolling wormholes without completely killing battleship rolling.
Starcruiser Stasarik
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-10-07 02:17:58 UTC
""" Halp, CCP! Other groups who don't have caps are rolling their holes! This isn't fair! Only us cap-capable wormhole groups should be allowed to roll! **** everyone else! """

Try putting some ships on the line and start smartbombing the hole entrance. Or stick insta-lockers on the celestials and grab them as they warp in to bounce. Or abandon a ****-ton of drones around the hole to decloak them like everyone else. Don't ask for a change in mechanics just because you can't take a few seconds to think of a solution.

-1
Justin Cody
War Firm
#3 - 2015-10-07 02:25:22 UTC
can't we just remove wormholes to force more people into high sec?
Imai Kenon
Corp Tax Dodger
#4 - 2015-10-07 02:25:41 UTC
I enjoy that your magical suggestion is to smartbomb a wormhole. Better yet, we should just put supers through and close them instantly. Both are equally good suggestions.
Jess Tanner
Bangworks Systems Inc.
#5 - 2015-10-07 02:32:11 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave
#6 - 2015-10-07 02:33:58 UTC
please remember for every group that uses these to "cowerdrole" there is another using them to role into more active holes to try and get fights



this was done long b4 higs rigs and will continue to be done if they are removed


so please

HTFU
Starcruiser Stasarik
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-10-07 02:34:56 UTC
Imai Kenon wrote:
I enjoy that your magical suggestion is to smartbomb a wormhole. Better yet, we should just put supers through and close them instantly. Both are equally good suggestions.

ok Fine you can't smartbomb on a hole but the other suggestions are legit.

Grab em while they're warping in or dump a ****-ton of drones around the hole.
Helpme Imlost
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-10-07 02:43:09 UTC
+1

if you're rolling there should be risk


higgs would still affect base ship mass + plates, you can still roll fine looking for content

saying that it would affect ragerolers in a huge way is just a ****** claim to protect your cowardrolling devices.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#9 - 2015-10-07 04:04:21 UTC
Helpme Imlost wrote:
+1

if you're rolling there should be risk


higgs would still affect base ship mass + plates, you can still roll fine looking for content

saying that it would affect ragerolers in a huge way is just a ****** claim to protect your cowardrolling devices.



I read it wrong I thought you were talking about removing the mass additions


Carry on I know to little about this as I have not come across it in my hole or connecting holes yet
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2015-10-07 10:01:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Celthric Kanerian
DaJokr wrote:
to "cowardroll" wormholes..


How is it cowardice to collapse a wormhole?
You mad that you cannot gank someone specific's WH?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#11 - 2015-10-07 10:37:13 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
DaJokr wrote:
to "cowardroll" wormholes..


How is it cowardice to collapse a wormhole?
You mad that you cannot gank someone specific's WH?



Because if I can not fight you with pew pew then anything I do to disengage makes me a coward
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#12 - 2015-10-07 12:06:43 UTC
Cowardroll wormholes?

I assume you mean "nope this hole is also empty and has no sites worth doing roll it so we can maybe find something to do..."
Nyalnara
Marauder Initiative
#13 - 2015-10-07 20:04:17 UTC
DaJokr wrote:
Recently there has been a large spike in using T3s, Luxury Yachts or cheap T1 cruisers with higgs riggs and oversized prop mods to "cowardroll" wormholes.


So basically, you're whining because you cannot bubble them, and also because your group/corp/whatever is too damn bad to bring dedicated tackling ships. Meh.

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#14 - 2015-10-07 20:33:02 UTC
WH started out like Mad Max and have evolved into rolling holes with cloaky-nullified-higgs proteus w/ all stabs in the lows.

You have to allow for some frustration from folks that go there to pvp. I think there is a broader general statement about the state of the game. SOV null is a big blue donut, self entitlement is at an all time high and wh are being rolled with cloaking-nullified-stabbed-higgs boats.

It's getting to the point where the game is polarizing into pvp griefers and risk averse bears. Both sides are developing a serious attitude toward the other. It's not good. The middle ground of reasonable actions is quickly evaporating.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-10-07 20:56:04 UTC
You could remove the nullification from T3 to give you a chance at catching them too...
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#16 - 2015-10-08 00:20:22 UTC
Or how about removing warp core stabs. *evil grin*
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#17 - 2015-10-08 04:23:01 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
You could remove the nullification from T3 to give you a chance at catching them too...


Decoupling the ability to warp cloaked and the ability to be interdiction nullified would really improve the game. No ship should be able to do both those things.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#18 - 2015-10-08 14:05:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Serendipity Lost
FT Diomedes wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
You could remove the nullification from T3 to give you a chance at catching them too...


Decoupling the ability to warp cloaked and the ability to be interdiction nullified would really improve the game. No ship should be able to do both those things.



Cloaky nullified T3 have a couple of roles (wether or not they are liked by me, you or anyone else doesn't matter at this point). The only one I currently favor is the cloaky nullified over tanked cyno toting bait T3 - but htis isn't about me.

The issue at hand is oversized prop mods on higgs cruisers (which is what enables the cloaky/nullified option for trolling... er I mean rolling). The OP is asking to have an interlock to prevent installing a higgs rig and then fitting an oversized prop mod. He's looking for a small effect change to fix a niche practice.

I would love to see the message:

"Warning! Activating this device within the influence of your Higgs Field will destroy your Higgs Field generator. Do you wish to continue with this dangerous act?"

If the pilot opts to turn on his oversized prop the higgs rig gets destroyed (prior to jumping the wh). That way a player can choose to fit out a cloaky/nullified/stabbed/higgs proteus with oversized prop mod, but if he also chooses to turn that oversized prop mod on the the higgs rig goes poof.

I think this tweek would move wh rolling balance toward a better place.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-10-08 14:17:53 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
You could remove the nullification from T3 to give you a chance at catching them too...


Decoupling the ability to warp cloaked and the ability to be interdiction nullified would really improve the game. No ship should be able to do both those things.



Cloaky nullified T3 have a couple of roles (wether or not they are liked by me, you or anyone else doesn't matter at this point). The only one I currently favor is the cloaky nullified over tanked cyno toting bait T3 - but htis isn't about me.

The issue at hand is oversized prop mods on higgs cruisers (which is what enables the cloaky/nullified option for trolling... er I mean rolling). The OP is asking to have an interlock to prevent installing a higgs rig and then fitting an oversized prop mod. He's looking for a small effect change to fix a niche practice.

I would love to see the message:

"Warning! Activating this device within the influence of your Higgs Field will destroy your Higgs Field generator. Do you wish to continue with this dangerous act?"

If the pilot opts to turn on his oversized prop the higgs rig gets destroyed (prior to jumping the wh). That way a player can choose to fit out a cloaky/nullified/stabbed/higgs proteus with oversized prop mod, but if he also chooses to turn that oversized prop mod on the the higgs rig goes poof.

I think this tweek would move wh rolling balance toward a better place.


Is this about removing some form of "coward play" ? If yes, why not remove more "coward play" at the same time?

Your idea also involve creating new code as far as I remember because there is no rig destruction modifier on any module currently existing.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#20 - 2015-10-08 15:04:04 UTC
Can't bait, goes to the forums to complain about a well known/established strategy. Aight.

Do you honestly think that stripping people of that option would lead to more fights?
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