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[December] Discovering a New Expedition Frigate

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Grorious Reader
Mongorian Horde
#121 - 2015-10-06 15:54:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Grorious Reader
Hmm...lets make a mining frigate that can hold millions of isk worth of ice, but is incapable of beating a dual scram tackle, can't field a full set of ECM drones, can't warp while cloaked, and has no discernible offensive capability. Yeah, that's something I want to blow my isk on and fly into hostile systems with no local chat. This thing isn't made to mine ice in shattered holes. It's made to pad bomber kill boards.

Get a nemesis. Fit rockets, 2 warp scrams, sebo, one prop. Enter wormhole. Warp to belts while cloaked. Approach target. When within 2km, activate prop and sebo, lock with 2 scrams, keep at range 500, kill target. Frigate can't cloak because you're within 2km. Frigate can't escape because it's mwd is off and AB isn't fast enough. How exactly will this frigate ever survive that?
Mr Grape Drink
Doomheim
#122 - 2015-10-06 17:08:09 UTC
Grorious Reader wrote:
Hmm...lets make a mining frigate that can hold millions of isk worth of ice, but is incapable of beating a dual scram tackle, can't field a full set of ECM drones, can't warp while cloaked, and has no discernible offensive capability. Yeah, that's something I want to blow my isk on and fly into hostile systems with no local chat. This thing isn't made to mine ice in shattered holes. It's made to pad bomber kill boards.

Get a nemesis. Fit rockets, 2 warp scrams, sebo, one prop. Enter wormhole. Warp to belts while cloaked. Approach target. When within 2km, activate prop and sebo, lock with 2 scrams, keep at range 500, kill target. Frigate can't cloak because you're within 2km. Frigate can't escape because it's mwd is off and AB isn't fast enough. How exactly will this frigate ever survive that?


I do believe the point is defensive, not offensive when it comes to a miner. Its also a frig, so if you fit a ship like your bomber there to kill a frig, guess what, its gonna die.

What if I fit the new ship with a web, scram, ab, extender dcu, drone damage amps and turrets. If your bomber shows up, its gonna die in a fire. <---Answer to your question "How exactly will this frigate ever survive that?"

You can also orbit a mobile depot, refit to stabs, warp to safe, cloak, and get away from most situations if you're paying attention. Thus preparation and perception leading to another way to survive in hostile space.
Mr Grape Drink
Doomheim
#123 - 2015-10-06 17:22:51 UTC
Franklin en Chalune wrote:
Mr Grape Drink wrote:
Franklin en Chalune wrote:
It's pretty much the same bonus assigned to all other ORE mining equipment. Making the bonus different for the ORE Ice Miner would warrant doing the same for all other ORE equipment, which would be a chore for CCP.

Better, in my opinion, to simply just give ORE some high sec presence, so that ORE LP (and hence equipment) is actually mildly accessible



Check ORE Miner. It gets a yield bonus, along with a range bonus compared to T2. Range on strips is different to an extent. A hulk gets a range bonus, and doesnt move fast. So extra makes a difference. A frig moves fast, and has no range bonus. thus an extra few km is next to worthless. If they are going to put out new mods, they may as well do them right the first time or they'll end up like so many other faction mods...never used.

It's a measly 5m3 difference between the T2 Miner and the ORE Miner per cycle, not something to write home about considering how inaccessible it is. That's the real issue with ORE equipment.

A cycle time bonus to the ORE Ice Miner... perhaps? Seeing as a yield bonus would have to at least double the yield, which would be too strong. Still, either way, if the stuff was at least obtainable then maybe it'd see better usage


You may see it as only 5M3, but I see it as an 8% increase in base yield, which is pretty nice over a period of time. I was thinking something similar on the Ice variant. but as you said, it would be for time instead of yield. The mods are far from inaccessible. I mine in Outer Ring every night and am sitting on top of 400k LP right now. The reason the low end miners are so damn expensive is because they cost the same LP as an ORE Ice Harvester. The LP stores are just broken. Frig sized mods costing so much LP that they aren't worth putting on frigs.

But never fear for ORE prices come several months from now. My corp will work on getting them to acceptable prices for all :D But only if CCP works at making the items more useful in more cases ;)
CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#124 - 2015-10-06 17:51:33 UTC
Mr Grape Drink wrote:
You may see it as only 5M3, but I see it as an 8% increase in base yield, which is pretty nice over a period of time. I was thinking something similar on the Ice variant. but as you said, it would be for time instead of yield. The mods are far from inaccessible. I mine in Outer Ring every night and am sitting on top of 400k LP right now. The reason the low end miners are so damn expensive is because they cost the same LP as an ORE Ice Harvester. The LP stores are just broken. Frig sized mods costing so much LP that they aren't worth putting on frigs.

So the funny thing is the ORE Mining Laser module is the only one to have gone through the tiericide process. I'll look in to giving the Ice mining laser a small duration bonus over the T2. Also I want to make sure the cost of the ORE Ice Mining Laser isn't nearly as high in terms of LP and ISK.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters
Mr Grape Drink
Doomheim
#125 - 2015-10-06 18:30:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Grape Drink
CCP Terminus wrote:
Mr Grape Drink wrote:
You may see it as only 5M3, but I see it as an 8% increase in base yield, which is pretty nice over a period of time. I was thinking something similar on the Ice variant. but as you said, it would be for time instead of yield. The mods are far from inaccessible. I mine in Outer Ring every night and am sitting on top of 400k LP right now. The reason the low end miners are so damn expensive is because they cost the same LP as an ORE Ice Harvester. The LP stores are just broken. Frig sized mods costing so much LP that they aren't worth putting on frigs.

So the funny thing is the ORE Mining Laser module is the only one to have gone through the tiericide process. I'll look in to giving the Ice mining laser a small duration bonus over the T2. Also I want to make sure the cost of the ORE Ice Mining Laser isn't nearly as high in terms of LP and ISK.



Yes, I think the tiericide done to it made it an awesome item, don't get me wrong. If you don't want the Ice harvester to to be nearly as high in terms of LP and ISK though, I think you'll have to look at the LP/ISK cost on the standard ORE Miner as well to match. Would be kinda silly to make them different because they only really see any use on the ORE T1/T2 frigs anymore. Thanks for letting me know your thoughts!
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#126 - 2015-10-06 19:31:21 UTC
some member in my corp are looking forward to see this.

and I am appreciated how CCP Terminus give us answers and stuff on this thead. Big thanks to CCP Terminus
Mikkir
SHINKETSU Inc.
#127 - 2015-10-06 19:59:12 UTC
Grorious Reader wrote:
Hmm...lets make a mining frigate that can hold millions of isk worth of ice, but is incapable of beating a dual scram tackle, can't field a full set of ECM drones, can't warp while cloaked, and has no discernible offensive capability. Yeah, that's something I want to blow my isk on and fly into hostile systems with no local chat. This thing isn't made to mine ice in shattered holes. It's made to pad bomber kill boards.

Get a nemesis. Fit rockets, 2 warp scrams, sebo, one prop. Enter wormhole. Warp to belts while cloaked. Approach target. When within 2km, activate prop and sebo, lock with 2 scrams, keep at range 500, kill target. Frigate can't cloak because you're within 2km. Frigate can't escape because it's mwd is off and AB isn't fast enough. How exactly will this frigate ever survive that?


Without getting all the PvP elements, I agree that this ship in a wormhole is just setting up the fat kid at the bus stop. The risk of flying a T2 ship in a wormhole when everyone knows where you're going to be are enormous, and you're mining at an unbonused rate.

The most likely use for these as a miner are going to be null and high sec. Maybe in a quiet low sec system, but meh to that.
Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
#128 - 2015-10-06 20:26:28 UTC
Mikkir wrote:
Grorious Reader wrote:
Hmm...lets make a mining frigate that can hold millions of isk worth of ice, but is incapable of beating a dual scram tackle, can't field a full set of ECM drones, can't warp while cloaked, and has no discernible offensive capability. Yeah, that's something I want to blow my isk on and fly into hostile systems with no local chat. This thing isn't made to mine ice in shattered holes. It's made to pad bomber kill boards.

Get a nemesis. Fit rockets, 2 warp scrams, sebo, one prop. Enter wormhole. Warp to belts while cloaked. Approach target. When within 2km, activate prop and sebo, lock with 2 scrams, keep at range 500, kill target. Frigate can't cloak because you're within 2km. Frigate can't escape because it's mwd is off and AB isn't fast enough. How exactly will this frigate ever survive that?


Without getting all the PvP elements, I agree that this ship in a wormhole is just setting up the fat kid at the bus stop. The risk of flying a T2 ship in a wormhole when everyone knows where you're going to be are enormous, and you're mining at an unbonused rate.

The most likely use for these as a miner are going to be null and high sec. Maybe in a quiet low sec system, but meh to that.


Prospect - Covert Cloak; Discavery - nothing
Prospect - less ice, but safe; Discavery - lots of ice, but ... nothing safe.
Prospect can mine more ore and gas, so discavery goes ... to be new useless toy (at least for me)
so what you talk about nullsec and highsec?Big smile
Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
#129 - 2015-10-06 20:42:49 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:

Some notes:

  • The Discovery mines ice slightly slower than mining barges, but mines individual blocks at a rapid pace with all its duration reductions.
  • Standard ore mining in a Discovery will be about as fast as a Venture due to the 200% role bonus to mining yield, but will be slower than a Prospect.
  • While the Prospect can fit the new Ice Mining Laser modules, and has an extra turret slot to fit two, it is still much slower at mining ice than the Discovery, and will require more trips back due to the smaller ore bay.
  • The Discovery cannot fit covert ops cloaking devices, though it does get bonuses and penalty reductions to fitting regular ones.
  • The Discovery and Prospect will be the only ship capable of mining ice from the frigate only Shattered Wormholes.
  • We’re hoping the Discovery works well for ninja mining the more valuable ice from null-sec. With its speed, shield tanking, and cloaking bonuses players should be able to make runs into null-sec for some of the crunchier ice.




this is strange. or Discavery the ONLY frig for mining ice (and nothing else). or you need to look again for his stats.
cut the ore hold to 8-10k, give him covert cloake, eliminate drone bay.
and why Discavery get 3 high slots?
if Discavery can not fit Covert CLoake, may be 2H/5-6M/2-3L wiith some EWAR bonus will be better (for sensor dampening or/and ECM)?
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2015-10-06 21:16:34 UTC
Grorious Reader wrote:
Hmm...lets make a mining frigate that can hold millions of isk worth of ice, but is incapable of beating a dual scram tackle, can't field a full set of ECM drones, can't warp while cloaked, and has no discernible offensive capability. Yeah, that's something I want to blow my isk on and fly into hostile systems with no local chat. This thing isn't made to mine ice in shattered holes. It's made to pad bomber kill boards.

Get a nemesis. Fit rockets, 2 warp scrams, sebo, one prop. Enter wormhole. Warp to belts while cloaked. Approach target. When within 2km, activate prop and sebo, lock with 2 scrams, keep at range 500, kill target. Frigate can't cloak because you're within 2km. Frigate can't escape because it's mwd is off and AB isn't fast enough. How exactly will this frigate ever survive that?

I take it you're using rockets to kill the Discovery? Otherwise I don't know how you intend to kill it.

To defend against stealth bombers, I would probably fit a warp scrambler and an afterburner.




For those of you trying to run the math and thinking that the Discovery Expedition Frigate mines ice too fast, here's a description of how all the math works:

I'll compare a Discovery to a Procurer
Ice Strip Miner I: base 1 block per 10 minutes
Ice Mining Laser I: base 1 block per 6 minutes
Skills and t2 variants: same bonuses on either side I believe (can be eliminated from comparison)
Procurer role bonus: -60% duration -- 1 block per 4 minutes
Discovery role bonus: -50% duration -- 1 block per 3 minutes
Procurer skill bonus (at 5): -10% duration -- 1 block per 216 seconds*
Procurer skill bonus (at 5): -10% duration -- 1 block per 180 seconds**
Discovery skill bonus (at 5): -43.75% duration -- 1 block per 101.25 seconds*
Discovery skill bonus (at 5): -50% duration -- 1 block per 90 seconds**
* if duration reduction bonuses are cumulative
** if duration reduction bonuses are additive

I may be wrong about skills affecting both modules the same. The mining bonuses on either ship do not affect ice harvester yields. It would appear that this ship can mine ice over twice as fast as the Procurer if neither one has module or rig bonuses. The Procurer has one fewer low slots but can fit the more powerful ice harvester accelerator rigs and thus gain some advantage, but unless there's something I'm missing, it looks like the Discovery still mines ice much faster than the Procurer. Keep in mind that the Procurer still gets just one block of ice per cycle, unlike other barges which can fit more than one ice harvester.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Franklin en Chalune
Stark's Kerbside Hauler Universal Logistics
#131 - 2015-10-06 21:22:11 UTC
Uriam Khanid wrote:
CCP Terminus wrote:

Some notes:

  • The Discovery mines ice slightly slower than mining barges, but mines individual blocks at a rapid pace with all its duration reductions.
  • Standard ore mining in a Discovery will be about as fast as a Venture due to the 200% role bonus to mining yield, but will be slower than a Prospect.
  • While the Prospect can fit the new Ice Mining Laser modules, and has an extra turret slot to fit two, it is still much slower at mining ice than the Discovery, and will require more trips back due to the smaller ore bay.
  • The Discovery cannot fit covert ops cloaking devices, though it does get bonuses and penalty reductions to fitting regular ones.
  • The Discovery and Prospect will be the only ship capable of mining ice from the frigate only Shattered Wormholes.
  • We’re hoping the Discovery works well for ninja mining the more valuable ice from null-sec. With its speed, shield tanking, and cloaking bonuses players should be able to make runs into null-sec for some of the crunchier ice.




this is strange. or Discovery the ONLY frig for mining ice (and nothing else). or you need to look again for his stats.
cut the ore hold to 8-10k, give him covert cloak, eliminate drone bay.
and why Discavery get 3 high slots?
if Discavery can not fit Covert Cloak, maybe 2H/5-6M/2-3L wiith some EWAR bonus will be better (for sensor dampening or/and ECM)?

It has intended use inside the frigate-only Shattered Wormholes, so the 3 high slots would be for an Ice Miner, a Cloaking device (because yes it IS bonused to use one, just not a Covert Ops one) and a Core Probe Launcher.

I'm quite happy with its slot layout in all fairness.

CCP Terminus wrote:
So the funny thing is the ORE Mining Laser module is the only one to have gone through the tiericide process. I'll look in to giving the Ice mining laser a small duration bonus over the T2. Also I want to make sure the cost of the ORE Ice Mining Laser isn't nearly as high in terms of LP and ISK.

Interesting input, and I'm certainly happy to hear that. Does this mean that other ORE harvesting equipment could be subject to similar tiericide changes too, resulting in a similar change across the board? If so then perhaps ORE equipment won't be so pointless after all. Just a case of actually working on LP for them then ahaha
Franklin en Chalune
Stark's Kerbside Hauler Universal Logistics
#132 - 2015-10-06 21:38:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Franklin en Chalune
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
For those of you trying to run the math and thinking that the Discovery Expedition Frigate mines ice too fast, here's a description of how all the math works:

I'll compare a Discovery to a Procurer
Ice Strip Miner I: base 1 block per 10 minutes
Ice Mining Laser I: base 1 block per 6 minutes
Skills and t2 variants: same bonuses on either side I believe (can be eliminated from comparison)
Procurer role bonus: -60% duration -- 1 block per 4 minutes
Discovery role bonus: -50% duration -- 1 block per 3 minutes
Procurer skill bonus (at 5): -10% duration -- 1 block per 216 seconds*
Procurer skill bonus (at 5): -10% duration -- 1 block per 180 seconds**
Discovery skill bonus (at 5): -43.75% duration -- 1 block per 101.25 seconds*
Discovery skill bonus (at 5): -50% duration -- 1 block per 90 seconds**
* if duration reduction bonuses are cumulative
** if duration reduction bonuses are additive

I may be wrong about skills affecting both modules the same. The mining bonuses on either ship do not affect ice harvester yields. It would appear that this ship can mine ice over twice as fast as the Procurer if neither one has module or rig bonuses. The Procurer has one fewer low slots but can fit the more powerful ice harvester accelerator rigs and thus gain some advantage, but unless there's something I'm missing, it looks like the Discovery still mines ice much faster than the Procurer. Keep in mind that the Procurer still gets just one block of ice per cycle, unlike other barges which can fit more than one ice harvester.

You've made a key error right at the beginning. The Ice Harvester I (the Ice "strip miner") has a base cycle time of 300 seconds, which is 5 minutes, not 10 minutes, which would result in a cycle time of 81 seconds with all skills at level 5, whereas the Discovery would get a projected cycle time of roughly 75.9375 seconds (you missed off the skill bonus from Ice Harvesting for both). The difference is only roughly 5 seconds between them; a fair amount, but not a massive amount of difference. Plus, it's fair to point out that the Discovery will be a T2 ship, so it would be fairer to compare it to a Skiff (which it quite closely resembles, funnily enough)

We've already calculated a cycle time of 75.9375 seconds for the Discovery with the T1 Ice Mining Laser, so we'll compare the Skiff against that:

Ice Harvester I Cycle Time: 300 seconds
Skiff Role Bonus: -60% cycle time - 120 seconds
Ice Harvesting Skill Bonus: -25% cycle time - 90 seconds
Skiff Skill Bonus (Mining Barges): -10% cycle time - 81 seconds
Skiff Skill Bonus (Exhumers): -10% cycle time - 72.9 seconds

So comparing the Discovery to a comparable mining barge, we find that the Skiff gets a better cycle time, and therefore yield
CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#133 - 2015-10-06 21:48:00 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Terminus
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
For those of you trying to run the math and thinking that the Discovery Expedition Frigate mines ice too fast, here's a description of how all the math works:

I'll compare a Discovery to a Procurer
Ice Strip Miner I: base 1 block per 10 minutes
Ice Mining Laser I: base 1 block per 6 minutes
Skills and t2 variants: same bonuses on either side I believe (can be eliminated from comparison)
Procurer role bonus: -60% duration -- 1 block per 4 minutes
Discovery role bonus: -50% duration -- 1 block per 3 minutes
Procurer skill bonus (at 5): -10% duration -- 1 block per 216 seconds*
Procurer skill bonus (at 5): -10% duration -- 1 block per 180 seconds**
Discovery skill bonus (at 5): -43.75% duration -- 1 block per 101.25 seconds*
Discovery skill bonus (at 5): -50% duration -- 1 block per 90 seconds**
* if duration reduction bonuses are cumulative
** if duration reduction bonuses are additive

I may be wrong about skills affecting both modules the same. The mining bonuses on either ship do not affect ice harvester yields. It would appear that this ship can mine ice over twice as fast as the Procurer if neither one has module or rig bonuses. The Procurer has one fewer low slots but can fit the more powerful ice harvester accelerator rigs and thus gain some advantage, but unless there's something I'm missing, it looks like the Discovery still mines ice much faster than the Procurer. Keep in mind that the Procurer still gets just one block of ice per cycle, unlike other barges which can fit more than one ice harvester.


The Ice Harvester (ice strip miner) has a 300 second cycle time, which is 5 minutes not 10.
Min/maxed for duration the Procurer will be a few seconds faster than the Discovery with T2 Ice mining equipment and a few seconds slower with T1.
Below is the theoretical maximum cycle time reduction for both hulls.

Procurer
Ice Harvester II - 1 block / 250 sec
Procurer Role Bonus (60% reduction) - 100 sec
Mining Barge 5 Bonus (10% reduction) - 90 sec
Ice Harvesting Skill 5 (25% reduction) - 67.5 sec
Inherent Implants 'Yeti" Ice Harvester IH-1005 (5% reduction) - 64.12 sec
Medium Ice Harvester Accelerator I (Rig) (12% reduction) - 56.43 sec
'Ingenii' Ice Harvester Upgrade (10%) - 50.78 sec
'Ingenii' Ice Harvester Upgrade (10%) - 45.70 sec

Fastest Cycle = 45.70 seconds

Discovery
Ice Mining Laser II - 1 block / 330 sec
Discovery Role Bonus (50% reduction) - 165 sec
Mining Frigate 5 Bonus (25% reduction) - 123.75 sec
Expedition Frigate 5 Bonus (25% reduction) - 92.81 sec
Ice Harvesting Skill 5 (25% reduction) - 69.60 sec
Inherent Implants 'Yeti" Ice Harvester IH-1005 (5% reduction) - 66.12 sec
'Ingenii' Ice Harvester Upgrade (10%) - 59.51 sec
'Ingenii' Ice Harvester Upgrade (10%) - 53.56 sec
'Ingenii' Ice Harvester Upgrade (10%) - 48.20 sec

Fastest Cycle = 48.20 seconds

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters
Ele Rebellion
Vertex Armada
Man I Love Flying Spaceships
#134 - 2015-10-06 23:42:14 UTC
Could you make it to where it can use Cov-Ops bridges even though it isn't technically a Cov-Ops? One of the things that makes to prospect so useful. Especially since it won't be able to warp cloaked. (makes it a bit hard to move gate to gate.. especially through null bubbles/camps)

The other thing I would like to see changed is the Ice Harvester's range. I would prefer the Tech 1 to have a range of only 2,000m This prevents someone from just immediately cloaking as soon as there is a possible threat. 2km range forces the pilot to actually maneuver away from the mining target (can we call it an ice-roid?) before they can cloak.
Ele Rebellion
Vertex Armada
Man I Love Flying Spaceships
#135 - 2015-10-06 23:45:43 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:

Ice Harvester II - 1 block / 250 sec
Procurer Role Bonus (50% reduction) - 100 sec



Umm.. Math? Wouldn't a 50% Reduction of 250 be 125?
Franklin en Chalune
Stark's Kerbside Hauler Universal Logistics
#136 - 2015-10-06 23:59:42 UTC
Ele Rebellion wrote:
CCP Terminus wrote:

Ice Harvester II - 1 block / 250 sec
Procurer Role Bonus (50% reduction) - 100 sec



Umm.. Math? Wouldn't a 50% Reduction of 250 be 125?

The Procurer's Role Bonus is 60% reduction, not 50%, so his numbers are correct, he just mistyped
Grorious Reader
Mongorian Horde
#137 - 2015-10-07 00:21:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Grorious Reader
Mr Grape Drink wrote:
I do believe the point is defensive, not offensive when it comes to a miner. Its also a frig, so if you fit a ship like your bomber there to kill a frig, guess what, its gonna die.

The point was that it has basically nothing to defend itself in any meaningful way. Venture gets +2 warp strength. Prospector gets covert ops cloak. This gets nothing. If you can't escape tackle (like this ship can't) then offense is your only defense.

Quote:
What if I fit the new ship with a web, scram, ab, extender dcu, drone damage amps and turrets. If your bomber shows up, its gonna die in a fire. <---Answer to your question "How exactly will this frigate ever survive that?"

Assuming you could keep your drones alive you might have a slim chance. But rockets are pretty good at killing light drones, and you only get 3 at a time, and you can only fit 2 amps if you have a DCII, and you probably won't be fitting much else because of limited CPU, and that cloaking module cripples your targeting, and you have to refit and load ammo to use your one turret, and I'm getting the drop on you with no warning. Basically, the attacker has every advantage.

Quote:
You can also orbit a mobile depot, refit to stabs, warp to safe, cloak, and get away from most situations if you're paying attention. Thus preparation and perception leading to another way to survive in hostile space.


A nice sentiment, but with only 3 low slots you can't refit to enough stabs to break the tackle of just one typical explorer hunting frigate. This isn't even an unusual bomber fit. This is typical for hunting exploration frigs. Lets not even get started with how fast you'll die to a sabre in a nullsec belt.

If a bomber didn't work, a slightly more expensive astero sure would. Effective 10 drones to your 3. Higher scan res so it doesn't need a sebo, so it fits a web with its 2 scrams. And it has an ancillary rep tank that you can't field enough DPS to break.

This ship needs a full flight of light drones. Either that or a 4th low slot. It's very close to being a good ship, but not quite there.
Noslen Nosilla
Federal Logistics Initiative Conglomerate
United Interests
#138 - 2015-10-07 00:43:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Noslen Nosilla
While you are discovering the Discovery how about discovering a drone bay for the Prospect? Room for 5 light drones would be nice for at least swatting at belt rats instead of cloaking and hiding like a little kid! Since the Discovery has them.....

Be polite.

Be professional.

But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
Ele Rebellion
Vertex Armada
Man I Love Flying Spaceships
#139 - 2015-10-07 01:02:07 UTC
Grorious Reader wrote:

A nice sentiment, but with only 3 low slots you can't refit to enough stabs to break the tackle of just one typical explorer hunting frigate.


Just this past weekend I killed a Prospect that was fit with 3 stabs and no cloak. Rapid Light/Triple Sebo Onyx > Stabbed Prospect ..sad part is.. I wasn't even hunting him.. he just warped right into my bubble on WH.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#140 - 2015-10-07 01:11:42 UTC
Uriam Khanid wrote:
Prospect - Covert Cloak; Discavery - nothing
Prospect - less ice, but safe; Discavery - lots of ice, but ... nothing safe.
Prospect can mine more ore and gas, so discavery goes ... to be new useless toy (at least for me)
so what you talk about nullsec and highsec?Big smile


I don't think the cloak bonus is all that important to the ship.

People have different preferences on what ships to use where, but I could see people who would want to use the discovery in high and null sec. It warps fast, it's fairly cheap, and it does the job well enough. It can also clear belt rats, which is something the prospect cannot do.

I'm not saying that it's hand down better than the other options, I think I would still prefer a skiff for ice, but some people will enjoy playing with it.

I do think it's fairly useless for the role of shattered wormhole miner though, and it seems like it's a terrible trade off in risk/reward, especially when you factor in losing all mining boosts.