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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

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Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2161 - 2012-01-05 11:34:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
EVE player: "There is no gameplay reason to use WiS."

Dev: "Let's introduce gameplay reasons for using WiS - how about moving station services/agents/FiS-related features into stations?"

EVE player: "Devs are forcing WiS down our throat!"


If WiS would be expanded to have some meeting rooms and minigames (without any impact on the FiS game, the FiS economy, ...) it still would be perceived as a useless waste of time by most people I know.

The only way for WiS to be relevant is to have it hook into FiS content in some way (e.g. the drug idea presented at FF, moving agent conversations into WiS, establishing an additional market/"black market" for goods that cannot be sold via the regular market/contracts/...).
But as soon as that happens people who wouldn't accept suffering a disadvantage for not using WiS (such as myself) will protest.

WiS seperate from FiS is boring, meaningless and at best a second isolated game that just happens to use the same client and characters as "real" EVE.

WiS tightly interwoven with FiS would be very hard to communicate and probably lead to sizable protests.

It's one thing to think about "what would EVE look like if it were developed in 2012" (in that case WiS would be absolutely mandatory) but it's a completely different thing to take a 8 year-old game with 8 years of habit, expectations, cruft, ... on its back and try to make massive changes to its core gameplay. Some changes you can only make when you relaunch your product.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2162 - 2012-01-05 11:59:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Xuko Nuki wrote:
Ciar Meara wrote:
\ Many activities could be done in station from simple socialising to production and even research (or indirectly the producing of datacores for example).


The in station factories alone could be awesome. Being able to place jobs with the foreman while looking out on the assembly process, automated machines in Caldari stations, sweat shops / assembly lines for the Minmatar, slaves in Amarr, laid back environments in Gallentee, obviously some of these components existing in all.


Personally i think that's a bad idea. I don't play eve to look at pretty graphics/animations, I play it because i like scfi and eve is one of the more interesting scfi MMO's around.

For WIS to work, it needs to have it's own gameplay that is independent form what we have now but still have an effect on the existing game. IMO Incarna should be a small scale RPG that CCP build upon to the level of games like mass effect or fallout.

I honestly think that Incarna is the only way this game is going to evolve and refinement the the FIS stuff is just that, refinement, and we should expect CCP to be constantly improving this content anyway, so i don't really know why we're all arguing...

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#2163 - 2012-01-05 12:19:28 UTC
i replied constantly for along time in this thread only to go into discussion with 3 trolls ,but :

I think the change of direction from CCP was done in some sort of big panic mode
Therefore devoting all the staff they had ,to Crubicle
In their panic someone stated to them WIS isn,t wanted by the playerbase,so ditch it .
So they stated in a blog WIS will be on the backburner.

The reason they don,t give info ,i think is ,they didn,t expect a thread like this and pro WIS people replying on other threads as well.
In their panic ,they didn,t see that WIS was very much alive in the EVE community.
I don,t even think the CSM tought in their endeavour to gain some respect, WIS was a big wish by a lot of the players
Its to bad they can,t give real info regarding if its possible to get some resources back to WIS(without MT),but understandable


latest reply from a dev
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=604426#post604426

also with no real info.
I think we have to wait a while ,so they have some time to sort this out

and who knows ,they come up with a plan to keep everybody happy in some way

grtz

Oldbut...



R.S.I2014
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#2164 - 2012-01-05 12:26:50 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Syphon Lodian wrote:


I love how you never branch into the other concepts - Station Gambling, Corporate/Privately Owned Kiosks, Bars, General Hang Outs. Not to mention, Corporate War Rooms, etc. etc.


Every other game that has social areas are 9 times out of 10 empty which makes them, and allow me to be brutally blunt, pointless and the time it took to implement them could have gone to better things.

Secondly, do you have any realistic suggestions to keep people coming? Because sooner or later people will get bored and not bother which again makes them pointless and the time it took to implement could have gone to better things.


I and others have already posted in this thread plenty of WiS oriented game play content but you and a couple of other anti WiS posters continue to ignore it. This tells me the intention is to start a flame war and berate others while ranting about non relevant issues. Maybe it's time to start using the 'REPORT' option.


Here is one of problems that the pro-WiS crowd is facing, your suggestions and ideas are things that you want to see happen in WiS which I am sure is all great and whatnot but what you are not doing is looking at it from a game designer's perspective because where is the magic cheese?

What would make people keep come back day after day, week after week, month after month and year after year? I just don't see it and unless the game designers have a eureka-moment, I don't think they will either. I am sorry, I just don't.

Something else to consider is this: CCP needs a huge incentive because unless CCP knows for a fact that WiS will print money thorugh the NEX store or through micro-transactions, I don't believe that they will put in much developer time because last time they tried (Incarna and monocles), things didn't go so well for either.

DeMichael Crimson wrote:

It doesn't take very much imagination to come up with various ideas for game play content. Hell, I'm sure you could even come up with one or two ideas yourself.


I did - twice. But here is a third, I think CCP should scrap WiS entirely for EVE and if Dust 514 is a success on a almost decade old platform like the PS3, they should finish WoD and if WoD is a success, they should think about adding proper WiS to EVE.

How's that?

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2165 - 2012-01-05 12:35:52 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
The reason they don,t give info ,i think is ,they didn,t expect a thread like this and pro WIS people replying on other threads as well

CCP has given info but the pro-WiS nutters don't want to hear it. The reason CCP won't engage in a dialogue with them in this thread is because they are so unreasonable. These are people who won't stop complaining until Eve is back on a path of self-destruction.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Xuko Nuki
Heralds of Darkness
White Sky.
#2166 - 2012-01-05 12:36:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuko Nuki
Rek Seven wrote:
Xuko Nuki wrote:
Ciar Meara wrote:
\ Many activities could be done in station from simple socialising to production and even research (or indirectly the producing of datacores for example).


The in station factories alone could be awesome. Being able to place jobs with the foreman while looking out on the assembly process, automated machines in Caldari stations, sweat shops / assembly lines for the Minmatar, slaves in Amarr, laid back environments in Gallentee, obviously some of these components existing in all.


Personally i think that's a bad idea. I don't play eve to look at pretty graphics/animations, I play it because i like scfi and eve is one of the more interesting scfi MMO's around.

For WIS to work, it needs to have it's own gameplay that is independent form what we have now but still have an effect on the existing game. IMO Incarna should be a small scale RPG that CCP build upon to the level of games like mass effect or fallout.

I honestly think that Incarna is the only way this game is going to evolve and refinement the the FIS stuff is just that, refinement, and we should expect CCP to be constantly improving this content anyway, so i don't really know why we're all arguing...


I think it would add a level of depth and immersion. It would be a better backdrop than spreadsheets and only spreadsheets. In my opinion.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#2167 - 2012-01-05 12:43:12 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
The reason they don,t give info ,i think is ,they didn,t expect a thread like this and pro WIS people replying on other threads as well

CCP has given info but the pro-WiS nutters don't want to hear it. The reason CCP won't engage in a dialogue with them in this thread is because they are so unreasonable. These are people who won't stop complaining until Eve is back on a path of self-destruction.


you didn,t sleep well didn,t you?

R.S.I2014
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2168 - 2012-01-05 12:43:50 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
The reason they don,t give info ,i think is ,they didn,t expect a thread like this and pro WIS people replying on other threads as well

CCP has given info but the pro-WiS nutters don't want to hear it. The reason CCP won't engage in a dialogue with them in this thread is because they are so unreasonable. These are people who won't stop complaining until Eve is back on a path of self-destruction.


you didn,t sleep well didn,t you?

I usually don't. There's so much posting to be done.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#2169 - 2012-01-05 12:48:34 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
The reason they don,t give info ,i think is ,they didn,t expect a thread like this and pro WIS people replying on other threads as well

CCP has given info but the pro-WiS nutters don't want to hear it. The reason CCP won't engage in a dialogue with them in this thread is because they are so unreasonable. These are people who won't stop complaining until Eve is back on a path of self-destruction.


you didn,t sleep well didn,t you?

I usually don't. There's so much posting to be done.



so now i understand the overreacting in your post ,while i am only saying that everybody will have to wait for info

R.S.I2014
Disdaine
#2170 - 2012-01-05 12:52:21 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:

I usually don't. There's so much posting to be done.


The wise old owl....
kurg
Order of the Divine Shadow
#2171 - 2012-01-05 12:57:07 UTC
To WiS or not it really doesnt matter, its really all the empty promises CCP tends to make and never keep .. can anyone say planetary flight? .. and dont even get me started on all the empty promises from back in 03-05 they never even kept!

Roll
Taiwanistan
#2172 - 2012-01-05 12:58:36 UTC
essentially wis is as ridiculous for eve as adding w-a-s-d flight controls
could be cool but not really

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2173 - 2012-01-05 13:05:53 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Syphon Lodian wrote:


I love how you never branch into the other concepts - Station Gambling, Corporate/Privately Owned Kiosks, Bars, General Hang Outs. Not to mention, Corporate War Rooms, etc. etc.


Every other game that has social areas are 9 times out of 10 empty which makes them, and allow me to be brutally blunt, pointless and the time it took to implement them could have gone to better things.

Secondly, do you have any realistic suggestions to keep people coming? Because sooner or later people will get bored and not bother which again makes them pointless and the time it took to implement could have gone to better things.


I and others have already posted in this thread plenty of WiS oriented game play content but you and a couple of other anti WiS posters continue to ignore it. This tells me the intention is to start a flame war and berate others while ranting about non relevant issues. Maybe it's time to start using the 'REPORT' option.


Here is one of problems that the pro-WiS crowd is facing, your suggestions and ideas are things that you want to see happen in WiS which I am sure is all great and whatnot but what you are not doing is looking at it from a game designer's perspective because where is the magic cheese?

What would make people keep come back day after day, week after week, month after month and year after year? I just don't see it and unless the game designers have a eureka-moment, I don't think they will either. I am sorry, I just don't.

Something else to consider is this: CCP needs a huge incentive because unless CCP knows for a fact that WiS will print money thorugh the NEX store or through micro-transactions, I don't believe that they will put in much developer time because last time they tried (Incarna and monocles), things didn't go so well for either.

DeMichael Crimson wrote:

It doesn't take very much imagination to come up with various ideas for game play content. Hell, I'm sure you could even come up with one or two ideas yourself.


I did - twice. But here is a third, I think CCP should scrap WiS entirely for EVE and if Dust 514 is a success on a almost decade old platform like the PS3, they should finish WoD and if WoD is a success, they should think about adding proper WiS to EVE.

How's that?


Seems you didn't bother to read this and that.

It's just some rough ideas but there's your Magic Cheese.

NEX and MT is the main problem which the majority of players would like to have removed. Adding more content like I linked above will bring in more players which will make more money for CCP.

Also you didn't post any ideas for game play content, DUST514 is ground based combat and WoD doesn't even relate to Eve.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Arcathra
Technodyne Ltd.
#2174 - 2012-01-05 13:07:15 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
essentially wis is as ridiculous for eve as adding w-a-s-d flight controls
could be cool but not really

Why? Enlighten us please.
Disdaine
#2175 - 2012-01-05 13:08:06 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
essentially wis is as ridiculous for eve as adding w-a-s-d flight controls
could be cool but not really


About as ridiculous as adding farmville to planets.

Thought eve was all about spaceships.....
Taiwanistan
#2176 - 2012-01-05 13:34:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Taiwanistan
Disdaine wrote:
Taiwanistan wrote:
essentially wis is as ridiculous for eve as adding w-a-s-d flight controls
could be cool but not really


About as ridiculous as adding farmville to planets.

Thought eve was all about spaceships.....


wow that is just uncalled for, insulting PI because i "insult" your dressup dudes /emoting
also shows your ignorance, if wis has even a portion of the market ramifications of PI (turning whole tables of items previously exclusive to npcs into the hands of players + the new taxation mechanics of POCO) i would be pro wis.
and what are PI products used for? fis
or are you suggesting that with the removal of nex, the volume of clothes traded would rival pos fuels? and traders are going to speculate on pants? lol

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Disdaine
#2177 - 2012-01-05 14:05:16 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:

wow that is just uncalled for, insulting PI because i "insult" your dressup dudes /emoting
also shows your ignorance, if wis has even a portion of the market ramifications of PI (turning whole tables of items previously exclusive to npcs into the hands of players + the new taxation mechanics of POCO) i would be pro wis.
and what are PI products used for? fis
or are you suggesting that with the removal of nex, the volume of clothes traded would rival pos fuels? and traders are going to speculate on pants? lol


So rather than explore the options for integrating WiS in much the same way PI was you'd rather hurf durf about barbies and space pants. Nice job.

Hurrr PI is gonna be all about breeding cattle and producing frozen food, no need for it in our spaceship game hurrr.
Taiwanistan
#2178 - 2012-01-05 14:52:21 UTC
heh look at you trying to troll me about PI, pitiful

whereas you are only a troll (the useless kind) i am actually going help yall and contribute a pro-wis idea:

the profession of nano-surgery
you buy a bunch of corpses off contracts (or pod ppl yourself), you cut off the heads (hold right click and push your mouse up and down) and you walk to a seedy part of the station into an illegal lab (operated by players i guess) with your bag of heads, you pay the fee and engage in a sort of minigame
you scan the head, god damn this scrub, no implants, you continue with the next head you see a full set of +4s, woot!
then you go to a console and operate nano-needles and try to get the implants out intact (sort of like lock-picking in skyrim) your heart is pounding as you ease your mouse pixel by pixel to control the nano-needles cus if you botch it the head goes splat and you get nuthin. there will be a "nano-surgery" skill book that increases success rate/ access level like salvaging.

it serves 2 purposes
1. a new profession is created
2. with implants added to pod killmails you know how much a corpse is worth, and corpses will become a highly sought after commodity.

but i dunno the whole thing is pretty macabre ccp will never do it

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#2179 - 2012-01-05 14:56:42 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
heh look at you trying to troll me about PI, pitiful

whereas you are only a troll (the useless kind) i am actually going help yall and contribute a pro-wis idea:

the profession of nano-surgery
you buy a bunch of corpses off contracts (or pod ppl yourself), you cut off the heads (hold right click and push your mouse up and down) and you walk to a seedy part of the station into an illegal lab (operated by players i guess) with your bag of heads, you pay the fee and engage in a sort of minigame
you scan the head, god damn this scrub, no implants, you continue with the next head you see a full set of +4s, woot!
then you go to a console and operate nano-needles and try to get the implants out intact (sort of like lock-picking in skyrim) your heart is pounding as you ease your mouse pixel by pixel to control the nano-needles cus if you botch it the head goes splat and you get nuthin. there will be a "nano-surgery" skill book that increases success rate/ access level like salvaging.

it serves 2 purposes
1. a new profession is created
2. with implants added to pod killmails you know how much a corpse is worth, and corpses will become a highly sought after commodity.

but i dunno the whole thing is pretty macabre ccp will never do it



for once you amaze me ,so i have to say +1

R.S.I2014
Taiwanistan
#2180 - 2012-01-05 14:57:25 UTC
Disdaine wrote:


Hurrr PI is gonna be all about breeding cattle and producing frozen food, no need for it in our spaceship game hurrr.


"reaching" a bit here are we?

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."