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Drones (slightly) OP?
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Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#21 - 2015-10-04 22:06:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
When you are a "not primary" thrasher in a caracal fleet, and suddenly you have randoms shooting at you after half their drones died. You get the picture.

Just shooting them reduces incoming damage.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-10-05 15:21:47 UTC
Mr Duffo wrote:
Beldrulf Arbosa wrote:
You can shoot a blaster ship, but you can also use ewar against it. I guess my main complaint is that with drones in their current state, DPS is the only way to take care of them, and Eve has proven to be a game where there are multiple solutions to any problem. I just don't think drone boats shouldn't have to worry about electronic warfare like the rest of the ships in eve.



You can jam drones. Once evil french men jammed my drones in my worm and I was hopeless against couple t1 frigates with only rockets as dps.


Nearly died to a Catalyst once in a dual rep Vexor because his Falcon jammed me and all my drones. Thankfully i lasted long enough to get enough drones back on target to kill him.
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-10-05 16:43:31 UTC
It's like people don't even think about their posts before hitting submit.

You can't physically target, web and kill another ships turret/launcher hard point. Drones are balanced. Missiles are actually the only weapon system that you cannot do much about because they don't have tracking, instead they have missile explosion radius/velocity to compensate.

I'm guessing OP is someone who expects to be immune to damage from cruisers in his super fast daredevil and gets upset when a flight of Warrior II's still project their DPS onto him. If someone sends a flight of light drones onto you, then just pull range and lure them out to pick them off.

Yes it might take a while to nullify a drone boat completely, but once you have he has to dock to get his DPS back, he can't just use a cap booster, or kill the EWAR, to regain his full DPS.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#24 - 2015-10-05 18:15:24 UTC
Every weapon system has is advantages and disadvantages. After the CCP changes (drone assist nerf, tracking enhancers nerfs), drones are mostly balanced.

The Tears Must Flow
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2015-10-06 11:24:50 UTC
Just kill the drones with your drones before your own drones are destroyed? And if you don't have drones, then just fire at them.
Black Panpher
CastleKickers
Rote Kapelle
#26 - 2015-10-06 14:48:44 UTC
No drones are not OP, Jamming is OP. /thread
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#27 - 2015-10-06 15:58:38 UTC
Management tends to fine tune with a sledge hammer and forge tongs. Cool

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#28 - 2015-10-06 16:31:52 UTC
Kuronaga wrote:
Beldrulf Arbosa wrote:
You can shoot a blaster ship, but you can also use ewar against it. I guess my main complaint is that with drones in their current state, DPS is the only way to take care of them, and Eve has proven to be a game where there are multiple solutions to any problem. I just don't think drone boats shouldn't have to worry about electronic warfare like the rest of the ships in eve.


This is not an argument.

A blaster ship has more HP than a drone. Ergo, a DPS race may prove difficult and this justifies a need for solutions to exist aside from DPS. That makes it part of the balance equation.

A drone has a pitiful amount of HP and dies quickly. Just about any form of damaging weaponry can be used to kill a drone, provided you don't take this to extremes and try to snipe a drone with a capital turret or something. Therefore, there is no need for multiple methods of dealing with it. You always have the "choice" to focus on drones instead of focusing on the ship itself, and some fits are better for it.

Alternative methods of getting around a problem exist when there is a balance reason to justify it. When there is not, you simply end up making a thing bad.


If your true, unspoken concern is that drones appear too effective and are the current meta then allow me to ease your concerns -- they are not too good. They are simply braindead and require minimal player skill to use successfully. Most gamers tend to veer towards the unskilled side of the spectrum, thus making the option of piloting droneboats a popular one.

Given that most EVE players tend to be rather aged, you shouldn't be expecting too many of them to be transversal wizardry gods or anything of the sort. These kind of crutches need to exist for the playerbase to remain happy. Be at peace.


tl;dr you can shoot drones but in most realistic scenario's it's a stupid thing to do.

A light Drone on an Algos has about 1k EHP and a tiny sig radius... which might not sound like a lot but when you have up to 12 of them to chew through it becomes significant, add in the fact there are sometimes abandoned drones lying round in plexes and gates where pvp happens and he can connect to those aswell. By the time you've chewed through all that drone ehp with the sig of a pod you still have to kill algos itself with another 10k ehp. now you could try chewing through all of that EHP, but you'd be better to just focus down the hull itself in most situations involving drone boats.

It makes sense to focus down the drones when you're fighting a non drone ship that uses a small drone bay to supplement dps it's nearly always worth killing their drones first, or if the drone boat is kiting away from you and you can't hit his hull with your main dps like if you're in a merlin and a tristan is kiting you just pop his drones, but if you're the one kiting it's better to just outrun the drones and focus on the hull.
Lynette Lamperouge
Hasegawa Ltd.
#29 - 2015-10-06 17:31:21 UTC
Ahem, you can:

Shot drones

Web drones

Jam drones

Tracking disrupt them

Smartbomb them

What was your point again OP?
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-10-06 17:43:38 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Kuronaga wrote:
Beldrulf Arbosa wrote:
You can shoot a blaster ship, but you can also use ewar against it. I guess my main complaint is that with drones in their current state, DPS is the only way to take care of them, and Eve has proven to be a game where there are multiple solutions to any problem. I just don't think drone boats shouldn't have to worry about electronic warfare like the rest of the ships in eve.


This is not an argument.

A blaster ship has more HP than a drone. Ergo, a DPS race may prove difficult and this justifies a need for solutions to exist aside from DPS. That makes it part of the balance equation.

A drone has a pitiful amount of HP and dies quickly. Just about any form of damaging weaponry can be used to kill a drone, provided you don't take this to extremes and try to snipe a drone with a capital turret or something. Therefore, there is no need for multiple methods of dealing with it. You always have the "choice" to focus on drones instead of focusing on the ship itself, and some fits are better for it.

Alternative methods of getting around a problem exist when there is a balance reason to justify it. When there is not, you simply end up making a thing bad.


If your true, unspoken concern is that drones appear too effective and are the current meta then allow me to ease your concerns -- they are not too good. They are simply braindead and require minimal player skill to use successfully. Most gamers tend to veer towards the unskilled side of the spectrum, thus making the option of piloting droneboats a popular one.

Given that most EVE players tend to be rather aged, you shouldn't be expecting too many of them to be transversal wizardry gods or anything of the sort. These kind of crutches need to exist for the playerbase to remain happy. Be at peace.


tl;dr you can shoot drones but in most realistic scenario's it's a stupid thing to do.

A light Drone on an Algos has about 1k EHP and a tiny sig radius... which might not sound like a lot but when you have up to 12 of them to chew through it becomes significant, add in the fact there are sometimes abandoned drones lying round in plexes and gates where pvp happens and he can connect to those aswell. By the time you've chewed through all that drone ehp with the sig of a pod you still have to kill algos itself with another 10k ehp. now you could try chewing through all of that EHP, but you'd be better to just focus down the hull itself in most situations involving drone boats.

It makes sense to focus down the drones when you're fighting a non drone ship that uses a small drone bay to supplement dps it's nearly always worth killing their drones first, or if the drone boat is kiting away from you and you can't hit his hull with your main dps like if you're in a merlin and a tristan is kiting you just pop his drones, but if you're the one kiting it's better to just outrun the drones and focus on the hull.


How is shooting down drones a stupid thing to do in most situations? Easiest way to disable a Tristan in a 1v1 frigate fight is to use speed and manoeuvring to get his drones far away from him and not applying any dps to you and then pick them off while he doesn't have a chance to call them all back in. Yes he has 8 of them, and it will take a while, but during this time you're receiving almost no damage, and he is losing potentially all of his dps.

I often fly my vexor with 4 light neutron blasters to blow apart the enemy drones whilst mine chew through his tank. It's a more than viable strategy, particularly if you have one or more webs to use on the drones.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
Josef Djugashvilis
#31 - 2015-10-06 17:45:26 UTC
Please, CCP have been messing around with drones for two and a half years now, do not get them started again.

This is not a signature.
Hochopepa
Creative Research and Production Services
#32 - 2015-10-06 17:59:27 UTC
Beldrulf Arbosa wrote:
This post is just my opinion on drone mechanics in Eve Online. Feel free to respond to it with your own thoughts.


Problem:

Here's the way I see it, the other weapon systems in eve online can be disrupted in some way or another, almost like shortcuts.

Daredevil's blaster dps is too strong for your little comet to handle? Neut his ass and negate the dps. Shortcut!

Corax's rockets are managing to hit your kiting ship? Tracking disrupt him and reduce his range. Shortcut!

You're trying to kill a vexor, but you cant tank his drones for any significant amount of time, and he has too many spare drones for you to kill all of them? Too bad. Regardless of whether you ECM, neut, TD, or damp that vexor, his drones are still going to be on you.


Proposal:

I think that to reduce the OPness of drones, without killing their usefulness outright, ONE of two things should happen.

1: Drones be made susceptible to various forms of ewar. Anyone who has tried neuting a drone will know that no good comes of it. I think that the ability to neut, jam, TD etc. drones would be helpful in allowing fleets to decrease incoming drone damage at least partially.

2: Add modules aimed at reducing the effectiveness of drones/drone boats. For example, a high slot module that acts as an AOE short range tracking disruptor that only works on drones to reduce their effectiveness? Or maybe a module similar to the standard tracking disruptor for targeted ewar that reduces a ship's bandwidth or drone control range?



1: you can't tracking disrupt rockets...... you could sensor damp the corax, you could speed tank the rockets, you can jam the corax.

2: ECM burst

3: Use your drones to kill his drones while you kill him.
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