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[ECM] another variant to nerf remote repairs?
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Ben Ishikela
#21 - 2015-10-02 10:44:33 UTC
Yeah, ECCM might become a mandatory thing. But what about ...
...changing the scimitar's/oneiros's "remote tracking comuter" bonus to a "remote eccm"-bonus.
... nerf local eccm modules. Buff remote eccm.

Quote:
If the ship isnt equipt with RR, then falcon is useless.

"j'adoube": if the "hostile fleet", ...

Quote:
Currently ecm is employed as a Lock-break mechanism, you get pointed, you jam the target and you flee. Ecm could shut down points (scrams, dusruptors and focused points), keeping this lock breaking mechanism to its core. If that happens, then again the falcon becomes job specific and will get employed in specific situations

I'd like that.
What about (one of the following) :
1) the OP effect of ECM and the lockbreak like the burst does. without the 20sec.
2) the target looses all Ewareffect (like points)+Assists for 20sec. It can still shoot and lock. (now falcon can act as a bail-out helper again.). But oh it has so many flaws that need readjustment (see highsecwarfare).

Quote:
Better off keep it as is, till a suitable compromise is found.

I dont disagree. Its also why i write this topic as a Question. I dont know if its better, but i have to test.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
SecretService
Secret Services
#22 - 2015-10-02 11:30:30 UTC
Basically ban reps on primary target.. brilliant idea. Several ships with this proposed ECM on primary will render Logistics useless.

aka: Breaking Logi for dumbs.
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#23 - 2015-10-05 02:44:50 UTC
Why limit it to just RR?

Tweak it to apply to every form of targeted module. Include e-war and weapons.


Then ECM have the added task of juggling between jamming DPS off blues as well as jamming RR off the primary.

The way I see it is this: Caldari, Gallente, and Amarr all have ewar that limits offensive modules against your fleet, spread out in a nebulous manner.

Minmatar, being the red-haired stepchildren that they are enhance offensive modules used by your fleet. Both of the Minmatar ewar types are focused down against the primary.

What's missing is a way to focus ewar power in a defensive manner.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#24 - 2015-10-05 03:48:17 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
So if proposed ECM is using on me, then I cannot recieve RR from another ship? How does that work in a scientific manner?


I think what we're looking at here is a case for remote target spectrum breaker - you bombard the target vessel with ewar that creates false flags for ships targeting it. Tgis means target locks fail and need to be reacquired without veing jammed out completely.

Advantages include synergy with neuts, damps and TD as well as not locking someone out for 20s outright. Mostly for use on enemy logi directly - by remote TSBing the logi you help break cap chains and reduce the effectiveness of spider tanking.

Your dps primary is different from RTSB primary. The more RTSB on a target makes no difference - as hostile locks are also jammed out and this is a meta itself where having the whole red fleet target logi and then RTSB applied also helps to break locks. Alternatively logi RTSB themselves so that incoming RTSB from reds get dropped automatically.

There's all kinds of crazy meta **** you could do with the relatively benign TSB if it was in remote form.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#25 - 2015-10-05 06:33:25 UTC
afkalt wrote:
You balance remote reps by stopping logi being able to lock so many targets at once. Thus the enemy FC needs to be active and smart in primary calling for the switches.

It's literally that simple.

Small gang: unaffected.

Large blobs: suddenly massively vulnerable to well coordinated target switching and scan res damps thus making it a game of skill whilst still avoiding crazy reworks and redesigns. It also means the logi not relying on cap chain become more attractive (more spare target slots), thus opening neuts back up again as a cap chain is stupid hard to break in terms of effort provided from the competing sides.

Optional: Slightly increase armor logi scanres to compensate for reps landing at cycle end.


Summary: Cap lockable targets of logi to around 5 and declare OP SUCCESS.


While I think the problem with Logistics ships is mostly empty hyperbole, this is the best solution I have seen proposed yet.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-10-05 08:23:18 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
afkalt wrote:
You balance remote reps by stopping logi being able to lock so many targets at once. Thus the enemy FC needs to be active and smart in primary calling for the switches.

It's literally that simple.

Small gang: unaffected.

Large blobs: suddenly massively vulnerable to well coordinated target switching and scan res damps thus making it a game of skill whilst still avoiding crazy reworks and redesigns. It also means the logi not relying on cap chain become more attractive (more spare target slots), thus opening neuts back up again as a cap chain is stupid hard to break in terms of effort provided from the competing sides.

Optional: Slightly increase armor logi scanres to compensate for reps landing at cycle end.


Summary: Cap lockable targets of logi to around 5 and declare OP SUCCESS.


While I think the problem with Logistics ships is mostly empty hyperbole, this is the best solution I have seen proposed yet.


Logistics in large blobs could do with some tweaking to move away from the all-or-nothing nature they currently have. Either you break their logi and wipe the whole fleet off the field, or you don't and you don't kill a single ship. I would prefer that it isn't through an arbitrary limit such as a damage / repair cap but that player skill is more heavily involved.

Decreasing max locked targets is a good option to weaken logistics however they may just compensate with sensor boosters to decrease lock time and be back to where we started. Spreading damage through AoE weapons is an option that I personally like that I think will weaken logi in large fights. I believe problems with large scale combat should be dealt with through mechanics that also will only affect large scale fights. See my sig for my proposal.

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