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New Micro Jump Destroyers?
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Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#41 - 2015-10-04 18:14:01 UTC
Boozbaz wrote:
What do you guys think of this idea?
The idea itself is cool, I like the MJD mechanic, aoe "mjd" would enable some nasty fleet tactics.

But why on a destroyer? BS and BC can use single-ship mjd's, I think the reasoning for that is sheer size and power usage. How can an aoe version fit in a destroyer? We also got 3 types of destroyers, while BC's are sort of left in the dust and meh. This should be a BS/ BC feature.

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Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2015-10-04 18:21:58 UTC
Obviously its going to be for fleet members only or banned in highsec.

You guys are like lemmings.


I will say there is a small chance ccp implements it for like 1 week how you guys say cuz they wont listen to this feedback like trollceptors then fix it after.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#43 - 2015-10-04 19:19:44 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Players can't accurately control MJDs due to the nature of ship model direction vs velocity. Unless we get a line showing our velocity according to the server, It will be comedy.


I bet the affected ships will move in line with the MJDD, otherwise you could do a starburst at any moment.

it's pretty much going to be starburst. I don't see MJDDs suddenly acting any different from local or anchored MJDs. Do you? Pinpoint MJD would be even more powerful than fleet warp while everyone is aligned.


Starburst AoE MJD would be ********. It would make more sense if all ships in the AoE jump 100km in whatever direction the dessie is pointing when it activates its module.

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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2015-10-04 19:30:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Soldarius wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Players can't accurately control MJDs due to the nature of ship model direction vs velocity. Unless we get a line showing our velocity according to the server, It will be comedy.


I bet the affected ships will move in line with the MJDD, otherwise you could do a starburst at any moment.

it's pretty much going to be starburst. I don't see MJDDs suddenly acting any different from local or anchored MJDs. Do you? Pinpoint MJD would be even more powerful than fleet warp while everyone is aligned.


Starburst AoE MJD would be ********. It would make more sense if all ships in the AoE jump 100km in whatever direction the dessie is pointing when it activates its module.

Yeah it would be bullshit because the mechanic is ****. The idea might have started as something good, but I suspect the implementation is where it went awry. The ideal way would make sense but it would be overpowered and probably can't be implemented anyway. Mostly because the server knows your ship's velocity but not 'where the dessie is pointing.' This misconception is why players fail to use the MJD accurately, and it's still vague to players who understand it.

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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2015-10-04 20:00:06 UTC
I'm betting this will only affect your fleet members. Of course nothing will stop me from inviting that procurer to my fleet.

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d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2015-10-04 20:39:01 UTC
As long only ships in the fleet are affected it's cool i guess.

If any ship is affected, then it's the biggest troll module in the game... See that Supercarrier? Let's go troll it hardcore while it takes 2 minutes to lock us.

Oh a fleet of battleships.... here you go scattered battleships thanks to 1 destroyer.



What the **** CCP?....

Been around since the beginning.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#47 - 2015-10-04 20:52:21 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
I'm betting this will only affect your fleet members. Of course nothing will stop me from inviting that procurer to my fleet.

It will clearly only affect your fleet members, and likely will required them to actively click a button to initiate the warp.

This is most likely being added primarily as an anti-bumping counter for freighters in highsec. While I am sure CCP hopes it will lead to some interesting uses everywhere, the description of what it does and the uses of it are so niche, it has to have been conceived of in a meeting about addressing complaints over the current bumping meta.

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Vollhov
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2015-10-04 20:54:45 UTC
The merchant goes out of dock Jita, on the Freighters.
T3 flies new the destroyer.
Presses the button New Micro Jump
The merchant from the station 100 km.
Kill the boardBig smile
Lutai the loot.Big smile

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Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2015-10-04 21:11:27 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Is there anything stopping a group of these ships from moving at effectively infinite speed by staggering their MJDs?


Ok I'll bite. You can still do any of the above with pre-prepared BM's 150~160 km out each. Warp to 50 to those and viola instant MJD with your warp drive. We have those on some areas so no ROFL10km/sGarmur is gonna be safe anywhere on grid.

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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2015-10-04 21:16:40 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
I'm betting this will only affect your fleet members. Of course nothing will stop me from inviting that procurer to my fleet.

It will clearly only affect your fleet members, and likely will required them to actively click a button to initiate the warp.

This is most likely being added primarily as an anti-bumping counter for freighters in highsec. While I am sure CCP hopes it will lead to some interesting uses everywhere, the description of what it does and the uses of it are so niche, it has to have been conceived of in a meeting about addressing complaints over the current bumping meta.
How useful will it be in that respect? Unless the destroyer itself it the determinant for the direction the ship jumps landing 100km in a random direction seems like it would allow the bumping to resume with relative ease (or am I overestimating the speed of a bump ship?).

If the destroyer does determine the jump direction it still seems like a web sling would be necessary to ensure escape before the bumping resumed.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#51 - 2015-10-04 21:22:11 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Like any offensive module, if it affects every ship in it's radius, it will trigger CONCORD when used against Freighters.

I don't see it being all that common given the inevitable cost of the ships. But, who knows.


I'm not sure the code exists to make this possible, other offensive modules either do damage or are expressly targeted modules. Mobile Microjump portals don't spawn concord do they?


Unless I'm mistaken, mobile jumpers don't force the micro jump.

ECM Bursts will trigger CONCORD as they have a hostile effect on other ships.

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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#52 - 2015-10-05 05:45:15 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
I'm betting this will only affect your fleet members. Of course nothing will stop me from inviting that procurer to my fleet.

It will clearly only affect your fleet members, and likely will required them to actively click a button to initiate the warp.

This is most likely being added primarily as an anti-bumping counter for freighters in highsec. While I am sure CCP hopes it will lead to some interesting uses everywhere, the description of what it does and the uses of it are so niche, it has to have been conceived of in a meeting about addressing complaints over the current bumping meta.


That would work but there's better anti-bumping counters available at present, but that don't get used.

I assume these will be fleetmates only, but they will be hilarious if universal.

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Black Pedro
Mine.
#53 - 2015-10-05 07:12:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
How useful will it be in that respect? Unless the destroyer itself it the determinant for the direction the ship jumps landing 100km in a random direction seems like it would allow the bumping to resume with relative ease (or am I overestimating the speed of a bump ship?).

If the destroyer does determine the jump direction it still seems like a web sling would be necessary to ensure escape before the bumping resumed.

A bumping Machariel only has a top speed in the hundreds/low thousands of m/s with the MWD on. A 100km microjump will allow any ship plenty of time to align and get into warp unless the bumper also has a MJD or uses another method to warp on top of the ship.

But almost certainly these microjump destroyers will move the fleet together - a module that scattered your fleetmates in random, or different directions would not be especially tactically useful for anything really (other than rescuing a bumped ship I guess). Therefore, you just need to fit some webs on your rescue destroyer and it can web the freighter into warp.

Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
That would work but there's better anti-bumping counters available at present, but that don't get used.
Of course. But for the less creative types CCP has now given freighter pilots a tailor-made rescue ship. It isn't a magic bullet, and there are obvious ways to counter it, but at least CCP can point to something they added to the game to address all the whining over the "lack of counters" for bump-tackling freighters in highsec.

I agree with you though that this doesn't add much that can't already be done now so it won't change the balance much, especially for a dedicated gank team. But CCP is serving those counters up on a silver platter to players who do not understand game mechanics well enough to come up with them.

There is no other reason (at least I can think of) for such a strange proposal for a new ship class. The fact the only obvious use is to rescue bumped freighters cannot be a coincidence. I am sure some clever FCs will find some interesting other uses for the ship, but I am equally sure of the impetus to why this ship and functionality is being added to the game now.

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Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
#54 - 2015-10-05 10:53:54 UTC
if they work on any ship, and not just your own fleet , its the easy mode to stop an entosis link attack, just jump the attacker out of range

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Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2015-10-05 12:51:26 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
How useful will it be in that respect? Unless the destroyer itself it the determinant for the direction the ship jumps landing 100km in a random direction seems like it would allow the bumping to resume with relative ease (or am I overestimating the speed of a bump ship?).

If the destroyer does determine the jump direction it still seems like a web sling would be necessary to ensure escape before the bumping resumed.

A bumping Machariel only has a top speed in the hundreds/low thousands of m/s with the MWD on. A 100km microjump will allow any ship plenty of time to align and get into warp unless the bumper also has a MJD or uses another method to warp on top of the ship.

But almost certainly these microjump destroyers will move the fleet together - a module that scattered your fleetmates in random, or different directions would not be especially tactically useful for anything really (other than rescuing a bumped ship I guess). Therefore, you just need to fit some webs on your rescue destroyer and it can web the freighter into warp.

Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
That would work but there's better anti-bumping counters available at present, but that don't get used.
Of course. But for the less creative types CCP has now given freighter pilots a tailor-made rescue ship. It isn't a magic bullet, and there are obvious ways to counter it, but at least CCP can point to something they added to the game to address all the whining over the "lack of counters" for bump-tackling freighters in highsec.

I agree with you though that this doesn't add much that can't already be done now so it won't change the balance much, especially for a dedicated gank team. But CCP is serving those counters up on a silver platter to players who do not understand game mechanics well enough to come up with them.

There is no other reason (at least I can think of) for such a strange proposal for a new ship class. The fact the only obvious use is to rescue bumped freighters cannot be a coincidence. I am sure some clever FCs will find some interesting other uses for the ship, but I am equally sure of the impetus to why this ship and functionality is being added to the game now.


Wow so kinda thought this was just some random ccp lol lets make a new ship idea.

But no.

This has got to be made SPECIFICALLY TO NERF FREIGHTER BUMPING AND A GANK NERF.

Wow ccp. Im too tired currently butill rage more later.

Thanks ccp. Just what highec carebears need, more hand holding and special new tactics.

Wasnt the bowhead for the incursion bears? Then the smart badguy gankers use it to dunk freighters.

The bad guys WILL find a way to turn this around and make the bears cry ccp. You meed to stop spoonfeeding them. Thwy are obviously too stupid to use the MANY tactics and mechanics they have available to them.

The bottom line is they want non-consenual pvp removed ccp. Stop catering to them, it just backfires anyways.





Omfg i hate carebears. ANOTHER anti gank, carebear-SAFETY FEATURE hisec NERF.
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2015-10-05 12:54:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Carrie-Anne Moss
Just gonna have to gank on the gates i guess pretty fast. Hyper only the afk/alone/no friends ones.
I mean they still cant figure out how to web properly LOL so they will prob mess this up too. But i guess just bump ouf align and just gank. More isk but less risk if theyl bears gonna be freaking WORLD OD WARCRAFT MAGE BLINKING AROUND everywhere

ADITION EDIT;


I guess if the freighter gets "WoW-mage-blinked" to safety they sre now easily over 100k from gate. Prob over 150 depending on direction.

Boom just MJD/"WoW-mage-blink" a bumper over. One bump. Instawarp gank fleet in and gank.

They can actually help you get themselves offgrid LOL
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#57 - 2015-10-05 13:08:28 UTC
Bazoobo Gwabo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I think that if it works indiscriminately, as in it jumps both hostiles and friendlies, that it will be the single greatest buff to trolling in the history of the game.


If this is to be an area of effect item, then it would probably end up with the initiating player to be flagged suspect/criminal if used against a non-fleet member in high-sec.

Which once again illustrates the need for alliance wide friendly fire in highsec.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#58 - 2015-10-05 19:07:16 UTC
All things considered, this is a strange ability for a destroyer.

Maybe a destroyer sized hull that is not a destroyer perhaps.


I like how CCP is singling out hulls for special capabilities, but they have so far matched the roll of the ship. The mass bonus with the Nestor, inties being pubble immune, etc.

But a MJD-ing dessie? I'm not sure what that idea is all about.

I would imagine this to be a command ship/fitted BC capability. In fact this would be perfect for a command ship of BC module IF and only IF OGB were to be removed (finally) because the command ship could rely on this capability (with a much shorter cooldown) simply to survive. The reason why people freak over the idea of getting rid of OGB is because we all know that the command ship is going to get turbo-sniped in 2 seconds and there will be no reason to have them.

But dessies? Maybe some kind of support ship role. Imagine if logistics could do this, for example. That would be interesting and also closer to the role: "if I can't repair you I'll jump you out" sort of thing.



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Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#59 - 2015-10-05 19:12:05 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
All things considered, this is a strange ability for a destroyer.

Maybe a destroyer sized hull that is not a destroyer perhaps.


I like how CCP is singling out hulls for special capabilities, but they have so far matched the roll of the ship. The mass bonus with the Nestor, inties being pubble immune, etc.

But a MJD-ing dessie? I'm not sure what that idea is all about.

I would imagine this to be a command ship/fitted BC capability. In fact this would be perfect for a command ship of BC module IF and only IF OGB were to be removed (finally) because the command ship could rely on this capability (with a much shorter cooldown) simply to survive. The reason why people freak over the idea of getting rid of OGB is because we all know that the command ship is going to get turbo-sniped in 2 seconds and there will be no reason to have them.

But dessies? Maybe some kind of support ship role. Imagine if logistics could do this, for example. That would be interesting and also closer to the role: "if I can't repair you I'll jump you out" sort of thing.





It's a game play consideration. Destroyers you can kill easily before they jump cycle completes. Good luck doing that with a Command Ship.
Arla Sarain
#60 - 2015-10-05 19:56:54 UTC
Destroyer master race.
T3Ds weren't the worst.