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[December] Missile Disruptors and Tweaks to Missile Guidance Mods

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afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#141 - 2015-10-03 07:44:12 UTC
Jus'not N'miFace wrote:
^ this should be one module with added scripts to be in line with all other ewar one mod



What, like ECM.....
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#142 - 2015-10-03 08:22:15 UTC
the question that still has not been answered
will missiles be able to 'miss' their targets whilst affected by these modules
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#143 - 2015-10-03 08:24:21 UTC
Sounds like a fine idea to me. Perhaps this could replace Caldari's ECM ships so just like Amarr Ewar is TD Caldari Ewar could be MD.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#144 - 2015-10-03 08:29:36 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
the way it is is good. if it's all in one module I can just show up in my 5 tracking disruptor curse and shut everyone down except drones. if you make me choose the number of modules of each type to fit, well, it's sort of like racial ecm rather than just making multis as powerful as racials. tracking disruptors are plenty good already.

That works for the Curse, and might work for the Pilgrim since the range buff (old, short-range Pilgrim however struggled for 1 TD slot - I haven't looked at mine since the change but I guess that the midslot load has eased somewhat); but if you only have space for one disruption module it's not viable.
It pushes disrution (weapon disruption) ships more to the strategies of Falcons and so forth where, fitted for disruption, that becomes their only role - and I'm not sure weapon disruption is powerful enough to support that.
Fazayek
State War Academy
Caldari State
#145 - 2015-10-03 08:40:34 UTC
I think missle disruptor should be Caldari specific module. I mean, all other races have 2 ewar types
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2015-10-03 08:48:09 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Jacob Holland wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
the way it is is good. if it's all in one module I can just show up in my 5 tracking disruptor curse and shut everyone down except drones. if you make me choose the number of modules of each type to fit, well, it's sort of like racial ecm rather than just making multis as powerful as racials. tracking disruptors are plenty good already.

That works for the Curse, and might work for the Pilgrim since the range buff (old, short-range Pilgrim however struggled for 1 TD slot - I haven't looked at mine since the change but I guess that the midslot load has eased somewhat); but if you only have space for one disruption module it's not viable.
It pushes disrution (weapon disruption) ships more to the strategies of Falcons and so forth where, fitted for disruption, that becomes their only role - and I'm not sure weapon disruption is powerful enough to support that.



Sack that, with one mod I can obliterate the DPS of every non-drone ship in the game.

I can half missile ship range. HALF it. Lol. I can make faction heavies hit like fury cruise. I can make pulse track like rails.

All with an instant script change. On UNBONUSED hulls.

I'd have them on EVERY boat yesterday.


What you're forgetting is unbonused ECM was gutted because of this, TDs have not been.

If this becomes one mod, it's going to be TD drone boats online.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#147 - 2015-10-03 10:44:43 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Fifth Blade wrote:
Ripard Teg wrote:
If they're going to use the same skills/bonuses as Tracking Disruptors, why not just use missile disruption scripts for the existing Tracking Disruptors instead of a new module?

As always ( Blink ), my thinking here is geared toward small gang, who while roaming are not going to know if they're going to be facing turret ships or missile ships until they're facing them.

Came here to say the exact same thing. From the same perspective (small gang). Please do this.


Because it's FAR too strong on unbonused hulls; people don't do it today because it only gets turrets - but make it both and it's all you'll see. Ever.

I really don't know why the **** people are advocating for a combined module. What you're saying is blatantly obvious but certain people seem to be completely blind to reality.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#148 - 2015-10-03 10:59:17 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
the question that still has not been answered
will missiles be able to 'miss' their targets whilst affected by these modules


Yes.

You will know when this happens when your UI tells you you did "0 damage". Every time that happens, your missiles "missed".
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#149 - 2015-10-03 14:23:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
a quick summary here

- HAM's need webs too apply any decent amount of damage
- HAM range needs decoupling from torps

- light missiles apply dps too well LML and RLML need balancing around ROF, thus a light missile damage nerf
- torps are terrible at applying dps without webs/TP's/scrams

- missiles need better basic stats
- webs/TP's need nerfing too allow missile tracking mods too have any chance

all in all a thorough balance of missiles and related mods are needed not just a few lame missile mods thrown in and hope there used.

also drone e-war is much needed

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#150 - 2015-10-03 14:27:53 UTC
So,when are we finally going to nerf drones to the level of all other weapon systems and start limiting drone types to ship class?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Matt Faithbringer
YOLO so no taxes please
#151 - 2015-10-03 15:01:06 UTC
I think you should increase the numbers of range and velocity little bit and remove the disruption effect to application (== explosion velocity & radius), since missile application mostly sucks already
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#152 - 2015-10-03 15:12:22 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
the way it is is good. if it's all in one module I can just show up in my 5 tracking disruptor curse and shut everyone down except drones. if you make me choose the number of modules of each type to fit, well, it's sort of like racial ecm rather than just making multis as powerful as racials. tracking disruptors are plenty good already.

That works for the Curse, and might work for the Pilgrim since the range buff (old, short-range Pilgrim however struggled for 1 TD slot - I haven't looked at mine since the change but I guess that the midslot load has eased somewhat); but if you only have space for one disruption module it's not viable.
It pushes disrution (weapon disruption) ships more to the strategies of Falcons and so forth where, fitted for disruption, that becomes their only role - and I'm not sure weapon disruption is powerful enough to support that.


it is powerful enough for that. and they all do damage and tank properly and have highs.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#153 - 2015-10-03 17:11:09 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
the question that still has not been answered
will missiles be able to 'miss' their targets whilst affected by these modules


Yes.

You will know when this happens when your UI tells you you did "0 damage". Every time that happens, your missiles "missed".


There is no log entry about the missiles that have missed. and with -60% flight speed and -60% flight time, they are probably going to miss a lot. unbonused light missiles go 5.6km/s or so, jumps up to 8.4km/s with a 10% per lv bonus. Cruise missiles are a bit faster at ~7km/s, and 10.5km/s on a bonused ship. although with their application you are probably better off just precision damping. and heavies go about 6.5 to 9.5. Then there is the mordus line with ludicrous speed Shocked

I'm not sure if 0 damage is a thing, although back in the nano days most missiles that could even catch their targets did something like 0.1 damage or whatnot. although it has been a while and I might not be remembering exactly right.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#154 - 2015-10-03 17:25:53 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
the question that still has not been answered
will missiles be able to 'miss' their targets whilst affected by these modules


Yes.

You will know when this happens when your UI tells you you did "0 damage". Every time that happens, your missiles "missed".


There is no log entry about the missiles that have missed. and with -60% flight speed and -60% flight time, they are probably going to miss a lot. unbonused light missiles go 5.6km/s or so, jumps up to 8.4km/s with a 10% per lv bonus. Cruise missiles are a bit faster at ~7km/s, and 10.5km/s on a bonused ship. although with their application you are probably better off just precision damping. and heavies go about 6.5 to 9.5. Then there is the mordus line with ludicrous speed Shocked

I'm not sure if 0 damage is a thing, although back in the nano days most missiles that could even catch their targets did something like 0.1 damage or whatnot. although it has been a while and I might not be remembering exactly right.


I think he's referring to this anomaly: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3f38ok/major_bug_with_missile_volleys_completely/
stoicfaux
#155 - 2015-10-03 18:09:18 UTC
Is it just me or does it feel like missiles and related mods are being balanced around Rapids and the Mordu ships?


Anyway, if missile disruptors become a problem, everyone will just switch to using Missile Drones (because drones tend to solve most ECM problems.)

Personally, I'm holding out for CCP to announce Drone Drones. (Drones that have their own drones.)

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2015-10-03 18:22:05 UTC
It's not just you.
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#157 - 2015-10-03 19:08:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
Treya Neverette wrote:
Please make defender missiles anti-drone missiles.



Auto targeting missles go for the closest target. Including drones.


stoicfaux wrote:
Is it just me or does it feel like missiles and related mods are being balanced around Rapids and the Mordu ships?


Anyway, if missile disruptors become a problem, everyone will just switch to using Missile Drones (because drones tend to solve most ECM problems.)

Personally, I'm holding out for CCP to announce Drone Drones. (Drones that have their own drones.)




Drones do not use missles. Caldari drones use hybrids, but they still do kinetic.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#158 - 2015-10-03 19:26:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton
afkalt wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
the question that still has not been answered
will missiles be able to 'miss' their targets whilst affected by these modules


Yes.

You will know when this happens when your UI tells you you did "0 damage". Every time that happens, your missiles "missed".


There is no log entry about the missiles that have missed. and with -60% flight speed and -60% flight time, they are probably going to miss a lot. unbonused light missiles go 5.6km/s or so, jumps up to 8.4km/s with a 10% per lv bonus. Cruise missiles are a bit faster at ~7km/s, and 10.5km/s on a bonused ship. although with their application you are probably better off just precision damping. and heavies go about 6.5 to 9.5. Then there is the mordus line with ludicrous speed Shocked

I'm not sure if 0 damage is a thing, although back in the nano days most missiles that could even catch their targets did something like 0.1 damage or whatnot. although it has been a while and I might not be remembering exactly right.


I think he's referring to this anomaly: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3f38ok/major_bug_with_missile_volleys_completely/

missiles have to accelerate up to speed, it has been pretty well documented. Especially back when people were theory crafting torp golems. Although the way it is inconsistent between volleys is a little odd. I do remember a CCPer saying back in the nano days they couldn't just make missiles go faster because they broke the physics engine, so I always thought the huge missile velocity bonus on mordus ships was funny.

this is a thread (from 2013) that I could find somewhat easily, and I say "(but it has been a few years)" : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2777613

I kept digging, here's a 2010 thread that haphazardly lops 10% of range off to account for missile acceleration: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1272939

we attributed it to the target moving which apparently might not be the case, but it is pretty much how missiles have worked for a long time (if not always). could very well also be a server tick issue. I noticed big variances in my damage on a burner mission recently, where I was damn near at max range.

Edit: the more I think about it the more it seems like a server tick issue, especially with the mordus ship losing ~15% range, the way acceleration works I would expect it to lose less range

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#159 - 2015-10-03 22:57:59 UTC
who flies missile ships here???

aha, nobody does... and all you want is to nerf my ISHTAR and my missile boats

tracking disruptors for missiles - I do not really want it.

Technically it is silly.

Work on effective FoF missiles. It will make me happy.

Now the truth... nobody tracking disrupts missiles. Instead, ECM countermeasures are used on local hull, so that all missiles that were fired get diverted this or that way. Either they miss completely, or deliver less damage as they hit local hull less accurately.

Only incoming missiles can be set off their target to reduce incoming damage. Not jamming certain spaceship, so all his missile bombardment gets worse.

Drop this horrible idea.

All games become poor by design, when all differences get nullified and all bonuses become equal and unified.

bad example orcs get 25% more armor, human get 25% more armor - totally stupid.
good example human get 25% more armor, orcs get 25% more speed - very fun, variable strategies.

Do not make everything unified and similar.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2015-10-03 23:04:05 UTC
Neat.

...Why does this need to be a new module? Is there some reason that existing tracking disruptors could not have this functionality added into their existing profile? Could you not augment disruptors with a script? This seems unnecessarily complicated.