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Need advice with solo PVP
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Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-10-02 23:14:42 UTC
So I have been playing EVE since 2003 and like to think I have a pretty good grasp on pvp. I tend to like flying cruisers and above, I just like larger ships. But I am having a lot of trouble flying them in pvp. I fit my blaster boats with dual webs, tracking rigs, have max gunnery skills, fly manually to reduce angular, but every time I undock to go do some solo faction war, I get owned by every frigate I come across.

They have a tracking disruptor and AB fit, or they are kites and my drones can"t catch them, they are an interceptor and lock me down and laugh as their friends show up while Im hopeless to escape or defend myself. I lose ship after ship and go through millions of isk a session.

I understand the game mechanics of tracking and transversal, I fit my ships accordingly. But it is just hard counter after hard counter and loss after loss. I feel like I am being punished for not flying frigates. Help please. I want to enjoy the game, but every time I log in I am just stressing over losses
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#2 - 2015-10-02 23:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
When you say solo, is that real solo and no links?

What about implants? Drugs?

If you are going to make life hard on yourself by flying large ships that are slow, less agile and with less tracking than needed compared to your opponents, then you need to give yourself as much up front to even out those disadvantages and give yourself the best chance to be able to apply your DPS.

So if you aren't using snakes, appropriate combat boosters and a links alt, I'd suggest starting there.

The alternative aside from shipping down, would be to use a sniping ship (eg. ABC or Combat BC now) and use the advantage of long range to kill light tackle and other opponents before they ever reach you (there are many crazy people out there that will just click approach on you from range and have 0 transversal while they try to reach you).

Lastly, go watch all of Mr Hyde's YouTube videos and when you get blobbed by a gang (because juicy), just link this video in local:

http://youtu.be/E5S4EU_Zprs
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-10-02 23:45:46 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
When you say solo, is that real solo and no links?

What about implants? Drugs?

If you are going to make life hard on yourself by flying large ships that are slow, less agile and with less tracking than needed compared to your opponents, then you need to give yourself as much up front to even out those disadvantages and give yourself the best chance to be able to apply your DPS.

So if you aren't using snakes, appropriate combat boosters and a links alt, I'd suggest starting there.

The alternative aside from shipping down, would be to use a sniping ship (eg. ABC or Combat BC now) and use the advantage of long range to kill light tackle and other opponents before they ever reach you (there are many crazy people out there that will just click approach on you from range and have 0 transversal while they try to reach you).

Lastly, go watch all of Mr Hyde's YouTube videos and when you get blabbed anyone (because juicy), just link this video in local:

http://youtu.be/E5S4EU_Zprs


But don't you think its ridiculous that a bigger, more expensive ship needs to do all that extra just to be effective? Like, what is the point in even spending the extra money just to be LESS effective? Why even fly anything bigger when they are LESS capable and MORE expensive? That design philosophy is flawed, no?
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-10-02 23:46:55 UTC
Svipul ?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#5 - 2015-10-03 00:55:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Amanda Guido wrote:
But don't you think its ridiculous that a bigger, more expensive ship needs to do all that extra just to be effective? Like, what is the point in even spending the extra money just to be LESS effective? Why even fly anything bigger when they are LESS capable and MORE expensive? That design philosophy is flawed, no?

No, I don't think it's ridiculous and I personally think the design philosophy is perfect.

What it has created is an environment where just about every ship has advantages/disadvantages in different situations and every ship has a role in the game. There's no 'I win' ship.

That's great for pvp. It's provides variety in what we can fly and what situations we find ourselves in. To me, that's way more interesting than a 1 ship meta.

I think it's also great that smaller ships, which are quicker to train into can have a role in pvp. It means that newer players can also get into pvp and there is no need to train for extended periods of time just to be effective.

Expense isn't and shouldn't be the determining factor in effectiveness. Those smaller ships that you struggle with solo, will find themselves struggling against you in a large fleet fight, or in a situation where you have setup to have the advantages. Situation and pilot skill, not cost, are much better in my book for determining effectiveness.

Go read up on the Battle of Trafalgar and how the smaller, more agile ships with inferior numbers totally owned the opposition because they made best use of the things that gave them an advantage and their opponents a disadvantage. Same thing in Eve.
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-10-03 01:21:42 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
But don't you think its ridiculous that a bigger, more expensive ship needs to do all that extra just to be effective? Like, what is the point in even spending the extra money just to be LESS effective? Why even fly anything bigger when they are LESS capable and MORE expensive? That design philosophy is flawed, no?

No, I don't think it's ridiculous and I personally think the design philosophy is perfect.

What it has created is an environment where just about every ship has advantages/disadvantages in different situations and every ship has a role in the game. There's no 'I win' ship.

That's great for pvp. It's provides variety in what we can fly and what situations we find ourselves in. To me, that's way more interesting than a 1 ship meta.

I think it's also great that smaller ships, which are quicker to train into can have a role in pvp. It means that newer players can also get into pvp and there is no need to train for extended periods of time just to be effective.

Expense isn't and shouldn't be the determining factor in effectiveness. Those smaller ships that you struggle with solo, will find themselves struggling against you in a large fleet fight, or in a situation where you have setup to have the advantages. Situation and pilot skill, not cost, are much better in my book for determining effectiveness.

Go read up on the Battle of Tradalgar and how the smaller, more agile ships with inferior numbers totally owned the opposition because they made best use of the things that gave them an advantage and their opponents a disadvantage. Same thing in Eve.


So given that paradigm, what role do the larger ships play when they struggle to counter anything but each other? Why even field them instead of a large amount of small ships?
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-10-03 01:37:25 UTC
The boosters can be relatively cheap for much added benefit, even if the drawback hurts elsewhere.

And I'll ask what size weapon you are using as well (neutrons/electrons, 425mm/dual220)
What type of ammo do you use in the two situations?
Tracking computers/enhancers?
Drone types?
Also, it might not to far out the question that they are receiving links from off grid. Not any solid way to confirm, but if you see a CS on scan and someone flying 'solo' likelihood is higher.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#8 - 2015-10-03 01:44:17 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
So given that paradigm, what role do the larger ships play when they struggle to counter anything but each other? Why even field them instead of a large amount of small ships?

If you want to fly solo and use larger ships, then the best options in my opinion are:

1. use high-grade snakes, skirmish links and combat boosters to mininise the effect of the disadvantages against small ships;

2. fit for sniping and sit at range, so you can minimise the impact of the speed and agility of small ships and kill as they approach (make sure you stay aligned so you can warp if probed and fit a MJD);

3. fit a micro-jump drive to help you escape from situations when you need to;

4. fit undersized weapons to your ship so you can use the tank of the large ship, but the ability to apply DPS of smaller ships. Fitting smaller weapons with better tracking, etc. reduces your range advantage, but is going to make you a good small ship killer

5. use drone boats or missiles that can project well in any direction irrespective of the transversal of the other ship to yours

Those are just some options. Personally, in a small ship meta I'd fly a smaller ship and find people to fly the bigger stuff with in different operations; however I can understand someone wanting to use bigger ships. Ultimately, you probably just need to accept that for every good fight you will get, you'll probably have a dozen or more bad ones.
Max Jaeger
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2015-10-03 01:58:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Jaeger
Amanda Guido wrote:
So I have been playing EVE since 2003 and like to think I have a pretty good grasp on pvp.


You should, having actually played since 2003 that is. Your post makes me wonder if a) you have nothing better to do than troll, b) you recently purchased this character and don't know what to do aside from picking up some terminology disguising your lack of any actual knowledge or c) you are trying to be clever in chiming into the pointless and stupid "why can't my big ship kill your tiny ship" topic floating around. Which one is it? There is always d) other... which you'd explained by now had it been the case. Or is it all of the above?
Linistitul
Gea'Vii Enterprises
#10 - 2015-10-03 02:01:41 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
They have a tracking disruptor and AB fit, or they are kites and my drones can"t catch them, they are an interceptor and lock me down and laugh as their friends show up while Im hopeless to escape or defend myself. I lose ship after ship and go through millions of isk a session.


Maybe is time for CCP to add an "Reputation" kind of stat to characters (similar to sec status), to make it easier for players trying to solo to avoid these situations. It should take into account the n+2 factor on the battle records(killmails). Bait and gank should increase this stat.

Veterans might not care about the "Reputation" of the opponents, but the new guys might get a chance to have some fun with solo without being cannon fodder and create yet more risk adverse players. We have too many already P
Max Jaeger
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2015-10-03 02:05:29 UTC
Linistitul wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
They have a tracking disruptor and AB fit, or they are kites and my drones can"t catch them, they are an interceptor and lock me down and laugh as their friends show up while Im hopeless to escape or defend myself. I lose ship after ship and go through millions of isk a session.


Maybe is time for CCP to add an "Reputation" kind of stat to characters (similar to sec status), to make it easier for players trying to solo to avoid these situations. It should take into account the n+2 factor on the battle records(killmails). Bait and gank should increase this stat.

Veterans might not care about the "Reputation" of the opponents, but the new guys might get a chance to have some fun with solo without being cannon fodder and create yet more risk adverse players. We have too many already P


Not to be rude but I hope not. Not instantly being able to tell the "reputation" or "threat level" of the opponent is an important part of the game... Reasons not needed I hope.
Linistitul
Gea'Vii Enterprises
#12 - 2015-10-03 02:10:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Linistitul
Max Jaeger wrote:
Linistitul wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
They have a tracking disruptor and AB fit, or they are kites and my drones can"t catch them, they are an interceptor and lock me down and laugh as their friends show up while Im hopeless to escape or defend myself. I lose ship after ship and go through millions of isk a session.


Maybe is time for CCP to add an "Reputation" kind of stat to characters (similar to sec status), to make it easier for players trying to solo to avoid these situations. It should take into account the n+2 factor on the battle records(killmails). Bait and gank should increase this stat.

Veterans might not care about the "Reputation" of the opponents, but the new guys might get a chance to have some fun with solo without being cannon fodder and create yet more risk adverse players. We have too many already P


Not to be rude but I hope not. Not instantly being able to tell the "reputation" or "threat level" of the opponent is an important part of the game... Reasons not needed I hope.


Player count is a good reason. Looking at threads like this it's easy to spot player frustration and player frustration leads to less people playing EVE. We veterans already have the tools to look for this kind of stat using third party tools, so I don't see why we should not have it in game also, to benefit the players new to PVP.

Also it might lead to some new interesting gameplay, where people who like to try solo will look to face people like them and actually have some fun.
Max Jaeger
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2015-10-03 02:14:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Jaeger
Linistitul wrote:
Max Jaeger wrote:
Linistitul wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
They have a tracking disruptor and AB fit, or they are kites and my drones can"t catch them, they are an interceptor and lock me down and laugh as their friends show up while Im hopeless to escape or defend myself. I lose ship after ship and go through millions of isk a session.


Maybe is time for CCP to add an "Reputation" kind of stat to characters (similar to sec status), to make it easier for players trying to solo to avoid these situations. It should take into account the n+2 factor on the battle records(killmails). Bait and gank should increase this stat.

Veterans might not care about the "Reputation" of the opponents, but the new guys might get a chance to have some fun with solo without being cannon fodder and create yet more risk adverse players. We have too many already P


Not to be rude but I hope not. Not instantly being able to tell the "reputation" or "threat level" of the opponent is an important part of the game... Reasons not needed I hope.


Player count is a good reason. Looking at threads like this it's easy to spot player frustration and players frustration leads to less people playing EVE. We veterans already have the tools to look for this kind of stat using third party tools, so I don't see why we should not have it in game also, to benefit the players new to PVP


Point taken. 2 reasons I still say No: 1) OP playing since 2003 does not even come close to qualifying him/her as new, 2) always expecting the unexpected is part of the very core of Eve.

P.S. I'd appreciate the OP answering my previously posted question.
Linistitul
Gea'Vii Enterprises
#14 - 2015-10-03 02:26:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Linistitul
Max Jaeger wrote:
Linistitul wrote:
Max Jaeger wrote:
Linistitul wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
They have a tracking disruptor and AB fit, or they are kites and my drones can"t catch them, they are an interceptor and lock me down and laugh as their friends show up while Im hopeless to escape or defend myself. I lose ship after ship and go through millions of isk a session.


Maybe is time for CCP to add an "Reputation" kind of stat to characters (similar to sec status), to make it easier for players trying to solo to avoid these situations. It should take into account the n+2 factor on the battle records(killmails). Bait and gank should increase this stat.

Veterans might not care about the "Reputation" of the opponents, but the new guys might get a chance to have some fun with solo without being cannon fodder and create yet more risk adverse players. We have too many already P


Not to be rude but I hope not. Not instantly being able to tell the "reputation" or "threat level" of the opponent is an important part of the game... Reasons not needed I hope.


Player count is a good reason. Looking at threads like this it's easy to spot player frustration and players frustration leads to less people playing EVE. We veterans already have the tools to look for this kind of stat using third party tools, so I don't see why we should not have it in game also, to benefit the players new to PVP


Point taken. 2 reasons I still say No: 1) OP playing since 2003 does not even come close to qualifying him/her as new, 2) always expecting the unexpected is part of the very core of Eve.

P.S. I'd appreciate the OP answering my previously posted question.

1. Looking at his post, unless he's a troll, he seems new to PVP
2. Just like the sec status which can be adjusted positively or negatively by the player's actions (or tags), this "Reputation" should not guarantee anything. It will just show to players that there's a smaller or higher chance to get a fight that might get them some fun.

PS: there might be players that will try to force the stat killing alts, but tbh if they are willing to put that amount of work in order to kill a solo frig or cruiser they deserve it.
Max Jaeger
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2015-10-03 02:32:57 UTC
1. Let's hear from the (2003) OP on this one.
2. Agree to disagree?
Linistitul
Gea'Vii Enterprises
#16 - 2015-10-03 02:35:00 UTC
Max Jaeger wrote:
1. Let's hear from the (2003) OP on this one.
2. Agree to disagree?


Fair!
MiSANTHR0PE
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#17 - 2015-10-03 02:56:17 UTC
Max Jaeger wrote:


P.S. I'd appreciate the OP answering my previously posted question.


I don't know why anyone would reply to you, all the time you have that nasty tone and attitude.

Just saying.
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-10-03 03:17:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Guido
Max Jaeger wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
So I have been playing EVE since 2003 and like to think I have a pretty good grasp on pvp.


You should, having actually played since 2003 that is. Your post makes me wonder if a) you have nothing better to do than troll, b) you recently purchased this character and don't know what to do aside from picking up some terminology disguising your lack of any actual knowledge or c) you are trying to be clever in chiming into the pointless and stupid "why can't my big ship kill your tiny ship" topic floating around. Which one is it? There is always d) other... which you'd explained by now had it been the case. Or is it all of the above?


What based on what I said makes you think I would be lying about my experience? I have tried everything from tracking computers/enhancers, faction ammo double web, TP, piloting manually to reduce angular, you name it. I either get kited by interceptors and faction frigs that hold me at 30km and wait for friends to show up. My drones are not even fast enough to catch them to apply damage because they are moving so fast, and blasters obviously can't reach them.

Or a frigate gets in close and tracking disrupts me and laughs as my guns miss miss miss, and he pops all my piddly light drones. The only counter to frigates thats reliable is a neut, and not all ships have the extra slot for one.

Trust me, I know the mechanics of pvp. frig verse larger turret boat is an easy win.
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-10-03 03:21:32 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
Max Jaeger wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
So I have been playing EVE since 2003 and like to think I have a pretty good grasp on pvp.


You should, having actually played since 2003 that is. Your post makes me wonder if a) you have nothing better to do than troll, b) you recently purchased this character and don't know what to do aside from picking up some terminology disguising your lack of any actual knowledge or c) you are trying to be clever in chiming into the pointless and stupid "why can't my big ship kill your tiny ship" topic floating around. Which one is it? There is always d) other... which you'd explained by now had it been the case. Or is it all of the above?


What based on what I said makes you think I would be lying about my experience? I have tried everything from tracking computers/enhancers, faction ammo double web, TP, piloting manually to reduce angular, you name it. I either get kited by interceptors and faction frigs that hold me at 30km and wait for friends to show up. My drones are not even fast enough to catch them to apply damage because they are moving so fast, and blasters obviously can't reach them.

Or a frigate gets in close and tracking disrupts me and laughs as my guns miss miss miss, and he pops all my piddly light drones. The only counter to frigates thats reliable is a neut, and not all ships have the extra slot for one.

Trust me, I know the mechanics of pvp. frig verse larger turret boat is an easy win.


Have you tried the following:

Neut+MJD out? ECM Drones? Falcon? Friends? Small guns on a battleship?

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-10-03 03:23:26 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
Max Jaeger wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
So I have been playing EVE since 2003 and like to think I have a pretty good grasp on pvp.


You should, having actually played since 2003 that is. Your post makes me wonder if a) you have nothing better to do than troll, b) you recently purchased this character and don't know what to do aside from picking up some terminology disguising your lack of any actual knowledge or c) you are trying to be clever in chiming into the pointless and stupid "why can't my big ship kill your tiny ship" topic floating around. Which one is it? There is always d) other... which you'd explained by now had it been the case. Or is it all of the above?


What based on what I said makes you think I would be lying about my experience? I have tried everything from tracking computers/enhancers, faction ammo double web, TP, piloting manually to reduce angular, you name it. I either get kited by interceptors and faction frigs that hold me at 30km and wait for friends to show up. My drones are not even fast enough to catch them to apply damage because they are moving so fast, and blasters obviously can't reach them.

Or a frigate gets in close and tracking disrupts me and laughs as my guns miss miss miss, and he pops all my piddly light drones. The only counter to frigates thats reliable is a neut, and not all ships have the extra slot for one.

Trust me, I know the mechanics of pvp. frig verse larger turret boat is an easy win.


Have you tried the following:

Neut+MJD out? ECM Drones? Falcon? Friends? Small guns on a battleship?


I think ecm drones are cheap but I might try them considering. The neut yes, but not all ships have the extra slot
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