EVE General Discussion

The real world analogies in this thread are a bit irrelevant as EVE versus RL Navy is only vaguely related.

- The EVE equivalent of a RL battleship are Dreadnaughts and Titans. Carriers and BB are similiar tonnage generally.
- real world Battlecruisers were a battleship sized hull with less armor (so faster) but full sized guns not a smaller down gunned ship.
- frigates in EVE are more akin to corvettes or even torpedo boats in the real world

The one real world anology that is probably correct in EVE is that a solo BB with no support fleet would indeed die a horrible death.

But a real world BB would not be single handedly beat by a lone cruiser or frigate either. He may get swarmed and out numbered, but WW2 naval battles will tell you that battleship can dish out some serious firepower. Nobody in that time would engage one without a large amount of fleet support.

But honestly, talking real world, BS were made obsolete by carriers, not because of some fictional inability to track targets. Real world battleships had secondary weapon systems for hitting smaller targets and did so well.

Now allow me to hit you with some logic. What happens when your mixed fleet of cruisers, BC, and BS gets swarmed by a fleet of frigates and gets eaten alive because they have next to no ability to target and apply damage? What few "support" frigates you may have will be primary and popped, leaving the rest of the fleet as sitting ducks.

In case you are wondering, null sec alliances are already bitching about the same thing, stating that carriers and BS fleets are being traded in for interceptor and frigate fleets which are throwing off the balance of power. CCP counter by not allowing interceptors into certain spots of space in a recent patch. There is a reason we are seeing down shipping happening more and more in pvp arenas, from null sec to FW. When was the last time you saw a BS included in a serious fleet? People hardly ever even fly cruisers anymore.

The incentive to fly bigger and more expensive is getting less and less. If nobodys flying bigger, then nobody fields bigger to counter bigger, according to your logic. What you end up with is the current meta where pvp is dominated by all small fast ships and larger ships are left for hangar spinning. The pvp arena has become about dessie and frigate blobs. There is a reason behind this, and your logic seems to not explain it away

1v1, fleet warfare, it's all irrelevant. The point is turret tracking is flawed. Drone boats and now with the new update to missiles, these ships do not have any trouble. Turrets are just laughable. The only reason people like you exist on this forum to counter argue, is because YOU ARE that frigate pilot easy owning the crap out of bigger ships armed with turrets by exploiting obvious game breaking weaknesses and collecting the phat lootz, and you don't want it to change. Your arguments are flawed and I have the killmails to prove it.

You use the same arguments as the rest of the trolls. "Bigger is not better" or "learn to play", but deep down you know damn well you laugh at any ship bigger then you if he is armed with turrets. It's an easy win. Do you think the same way about when you encounter a drone boat or (with recent changes) a missile boat? I doubt it. The reason? Turrets are gimped and broken! The funny part is I use blasters, and they have the best tracking of all turrets. I can not imagine what its like playing with pulses or auto cannons.

I never personally attacked you. The title of my thread is turrets, I have always said drone and missile boats are fine. But the vast majority of ships in the game use turrets. So do you suggest I fit small guns on my cruiser?? LOL and you have not given me one effective counter to those small frigates using turrets btw. So stop pretending you know an answer that I do not

I never lost at a gate, I fight in FW. So what are you talking about? I also don't pve, so again, what are you talking about>

Lol look over my fits brother, there is nothing wrong with them. and they ALL were specifically fit to fight smaller ships. Lol but ya it was my fit... ok

I don't pretend to know an answer that you don't. In fact you do already know the answer, you just prefer to ignore it and want whatever you fit to also be the answer. Here's a hint, I highlighted your own answer for you. I'm also not about to hand you working setups, you claim you are an '03 player, you should have that knowledge by now. Here's a partial counter to frigates with turrets however, look for a ship with tracking or falloff bonus and don't fit the largest caliber gun you can because their tracking isn't the best. Here's that word again "TRADEOFFS".

The title of your thread may be about turret tracking but you first posts were all about how larger turrets and ships should be able to kill smaller frigates simply because bigger is better and more expensive is better

Wrong quote there but whatever.

I found a bunch of your loss mails on zkillboard and quite frankly your setups are terrible for killing frigates. You really seem to favour the Exequror Navy Issue and you use the largest size blasters which have absolutely terrible tracking to begin with and on top of that they have crap for falloff so it's super easy to stay out of your turrets range. The drone bay on that ship is also pitifully small at 25m3.

So basically you got tackled and the tackle did their job staying out of your web and weapons range holding you for backup to get there and get the kill. In other words frigates did the job they are intended to do.

So now this entire thread and your posts are complete garbage. You never died once to a solo frigate and your setups are pure **** for dealing with a frigate, even though you did actually get some solo frigate kills so your whole argument that turrets are bad is null and void. You got killed by people who actually knew how to fly a frigate properly and avoided your webs and held you in place for their friends which is how the game is supposed to be.

Do we really need to go on at this point ?

The ease or otherwise of tackling is another issue altogether.

I solo PvP regularly with larger ships, as i was tired of the frigate/small ship meta. Your friend here is transversal, that is how big guns track small targets. You don't have enough of it, An AB cruiser/BS is in some cases not fast enough to leave a frigate behind. Enabling them to orbit you and "outtrack" your guns through signature resolution, not necessarily tracking.

I have killed succubus, worms, just about every AF and T3D with a tornado and other BC's and BS. You MUST be faster than your frigate enemies with an AB, or have a neut to turn off their props so you are faster than them with an AB. The fact you're using ships that can't support a neut is your first issue. Brawling without a neut is risky, and can only be considered if you have the speed to outrun frigates when scrammed/webbed.

For things like a BS, you need MJD. No question. If you really want to solo PvP with BC's and BS, an MJD is pretty much mandatory. Neuts, webs, drones, MJD and sometimes 100mn cruiser/BC fits is the way to escape/kill frigs. Damped down by a maulus/kite gang? MJD out. Garmur got you pointed at 70km? MJD out. You can't just seem to hit that 1 frig that is holding you for friends? MJD out. That 1 frig has a scram? Neut him out while aligned and wait for tackle to drop and warp away.

There are ways to do it, but you need to pick the right ship for the job. Dropping 400m in faction mods on a ship not designed for it and then being agitated on the forums is not the way to do it.