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Current state of turret tracking and damage application...

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Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#21 - 2015-10-02 04:53:28 UTC
There are several battleships which I wouldn't dare attack solo in a frigate or cruiser if I think the pilot knows what he's doing.

Anything which typically fits a heavy neut for one... Huh, where did all my cap suddenly go?!?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#22 - 2015-10-02 04:59:20 UTC
I would like to see how the OP would fit a small gang/solo mega, I will then tell them exactly why the OP is bad at flying battleships.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#23 - 2015-10-02 05:23:09 UTC
I have to first ask, what are the other members of the small gang flying. My brain scatters to at least a half dozen fitting ideas.

as for solo, no idea how to fit a solo mega these days. tiericide changed things. I kinda miss the days of just ramming stuff and ka pow! with blasters.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#24 - 2015-10-02 06:20:38 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I have to first ask, what are the other members of the small gang flying. My brain scatters to at least a half dozen fitting ideas.

as for solo, no idea how to fit a solo mega these days. tiericide changed things. I kinda miss the days of just ramming stuff and ka pow! with blasters.


Admittedly the hyperion is much better at solo.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#25 - 2015-10-02 07:42:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I have to first ask, what are the other members of the small gang flying. My brain scatters to at least a half dozen fitting ideas.

as for solo, no idea how to fit a solo mega these days. tiericide changed things. I kinda miss the days of just ramming stuff and ka pow! with blasters.


Admittedly the hyperion is much better at solo.


Megathron is better at mining, there's still hope!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2015-10-02 08:29:42 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I have to first ask, what are the other members of the small gang flying. My brain scatters to at least a half dozen fitting ideas.

as for solo, no idea how to fit a solo mega these days. tiericide changed things. I kinda miss the days of just ramming stuff and ka pow! with blasters.


Admittedly the hyperion is much better at solo.


Megathron is better at mining, there's still hope!


I am not ashamed to admit I have looked into this.
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2015-10-02 21:27:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Guido
You guys can see my kill board, you can see I have good fits that are being beat out by cheap mechanics. Just today my 400 million isk faction navy exequeror got beat by a 20 mill hookbill without landing a single blow. Got in under my guns, shot my drones. I threw my double webs on him, did not land a single hit. He has a tracking disruptor on, not that I would have been able to hit him even without the disruptor. But if it was not that, it would be any other of the 100 things that would turn my expensive cruiser into a flying paper weight.

Check the killmail. A t3 dessie, who I could not track. A frigate kite who I could not hit and could not run from who made me a sitting duck until his friends arrived. There just is no point in even undocking solo in anything but a cheap frigate or dessie, especially if its expensive, unless you are doing pve. Pvp just sucks in its current state, there is no variety. It literally punishes you for not flying in a very set cookie cutter fashion
Matrea D
Maggie's Magical Miners
#28 - 2015-10-02 21:33:35 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:


Megathron is better at mining, there's still hope!


I am not ashamed to admit I have looked into this.


I am not surprised by this statement.
Captain Brownfinger
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2015-10-02 23:11:36 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
He has a tracking disruptor on, not that I would have been able to hit him even without the disruptor. But if it was not that, it would be any other of the 100 things that would turn my expensive cruiser into a flying paper weight.


Nope that tracking disruptor did absolutely nothing Roll You openly admit he had a tracking disruptor used on you but you completely rule that because of course your bigger more expensive ship must win because of ship price and size right ? Does your killmail tell you if you were outside your optimal range and unable to hit him ?

The biggest advantage a frigate has in the game is the fact that the pilot can choose who he does or does not engage. A smart frigate pilot knows who they can and cannot engage and the frigate pilot that killed you chose wisely when he chose to engage you and now you come to forums informing everyone of how badly you deal with frigate pilots. I wonder how many people are now gunning for you ?
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-10-02 23:17:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Guido
Captain Brownfinger wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
He has a tracking disruptor on, not that I would have been able to hit him even without the disruptor. But if it was not that, it would be any other of the 100 things that would turn my expensive cruiser into a flying paper weight.


Nope that tracking disruptor did absolutely nothing Roll You openly admit he had a tracking disruptor used on you but you completely rule that because of course your bigger more expensive ship must win because of ship price and size right ? Does your killmail tell you if you were outside your optimal range and unable to hit him ?

The biggest advantage a frigate has in the game is the fact that the pilot can choose who he does or does not engage. A smart frigate pilot knows who they can and cannot engage and the frigate pilot that killed you chose wisely when he chose to engage you and now you come to forums informing everyone of how badly you deal with frigate pilots. I wonder how many people are now gunning for you ?


That's my point though exactly, it is too easy to render larger hulls useless. How was I to know when engaging him that he was TD fit? By the time I found that out I was already in scram range and ******. That is only one of a hundred hard counters against large ships for frigates. Kites, interceptors, ecm, the list goes on. It just feels like larger hulls are penalized for entering into pvp with little actual benefit. It is impossible to prepare your ship to fight all the hard counters available against you in a larger vessel.

So why even bother risking the isk of flying one, when you don't ever have to worry about that in a small ship, and you can use the same cheap tactics?

Then again I am like the only person who ever tries to fly solo cruisers, I almost never see them out. But I guess I am starting to see why.
Captain Brownfinger
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2015-10-02 23:23:02 UTC
So what you want is for larger more expensive ships to automatically counter all smaller cheaper ships ? Because this is what your ramblings sound very much like. If this is what you are wanting then you really want a total imbalance in the game and render frigates entirely useless. Learn to fit frigate counters to your ship or fly a cruiser specifically for taking on frigates and bait them into fights. So far all im getting from you is that you want bigger ships with bigger guns = win.
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2015-10-02 23:26:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Guido
Captain Brownfinger wrote:
So what you want is for larger more expensive ships to automatically counter all smaller cheaper ships ? Because this is what your ramblings sound very much like. If this is what you are wanting then you really want a total imbalance in the game and render frigates entirely useless. Learn to fit frigate counters to your ship or fly a cruiser specifically for taking on frigates and bait them into fights. So far all im getting from you is that you want bigger ships with bigger guns = win.


No, please don't misunderstand. I don't expect it to be an "I win" button flying cruisers. But honestly, turret cruisers don't have an effective way of countering any of these threats. I have fit my ships with dual webs, tracking enhancers, tracking rigs, drones. None of them are effective counters.

My ship and drones are too slow to catch long tackle frigates, my guns are too slow to track up close brawling frigates, even when double webbed and manual piloting to reduce transversal, especially with links and TD thrown into the fray. There is literally nothing WE can do to counter. That is my gripe.

The only real counter is a neut, but most cruisers, many cruisers, dont have the extra high slot to fit one
Captain Brownfinger
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2015-10-02 23:30:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Brownfinger
Try a different type of cruiser with web, target painter and weapons designed for frigates like light missiles and light drones and maybe even throw an energy neutralizer in there. Or you could maybe fly a ship designed specifically for taking out frigates like a destroyer. This game is not balanced around 1v1.
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-10-02 23:32:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Guido
Captain Brownfinger wrote:
Try a different type of cruiser with web, target painter and weapons designed for frigates like light missiles and light drones and maybe even throw an energy neutralizer in there. Or you could maybe fly a ship designed specifically for taking out frigates like a destroyer. This game is not balanced around 1v1.


The game is not balanced at all. It is completely flawed actually. There literally is no reason to fly anything BUT a frigate in pvp, because honestly, nobody flies anything but frigates and dessies in pvp anymore for the exact reasons I mentioned. You can't even deny that
Captain Brownfinger
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2015-10-02 23:35:54 UTC
If you say so. I guess you weren't here in the days when frigates were completely useless and everyone flew battleships because they really were the end all be all with no counters.
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2015-10-02 23:37:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Guido
I have played since 2003, but the current state of the game is the exact opposite of what it used to be. Now it's the reverse, frigates rule and there are few hard counters. They went from one extreme to the other. Frigate design philosophy should be around cheap and fast tackle. They are cheap and easy to fly and easy to field in large numbers.

Numbers is where they should be devastating. You should not be taking on BS and Cruisers in a lone frigate with ease, that is just ridiculous.
Captain Brownfinger
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2015-10-02 23:40:56 UTC
If you truly are are an '03 player then you really should know better and you definitely should know how to deal with a frigate by now.
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2015-10-02 23:43:21 UTC
Captain Brownfinger wrote:
If you truly are are an '03 player then you really should know better and you definitely should know how to deal with a frigate by now.


As I have mentioned about 6 times, I have fit all the counters. But I will state them again. I have had dual webs, tracking enhancers, light drones, tracking rigs, and neuts are not possible on all ships. I fly manually to reduce transversal, none of those things are effective counters in most or all situations
Captain Brownfinger
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2015-10-02 23:49:48 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
As I have mentioned about 6 times, I have fit all the counters. But I will state them again. I have had dual webs, tracking enhancers, light drones, tracking rigs, and neuts are not possible on all ships. I fly manually to reduce transversal, none of those things are effective counters in most or all situations


Nothing is possible in all ships and as I stated in my first post in this thread it's all about tradeoffs. Pick the right ship for the job at hand and accept what you are trading off for that job. There are hard counters to frigates but not all ships can have them. I know I wouldn't go up against a neuting drone boat in a frigate unless I was doing it specifically for a suicide tackle. But I sure as hell would have no problems going up against a pure turret cruiser or battleship and that is how the game should be.

Anyways im done with this with you because you have your opinion and you are sticking by it no matter how wrong it is.
Good luck.
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2015-10-02 23:52:24 UTC
Captain Brownfinger wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
As I have mentioned about 6 times, I have fit all the counters. But I will state them again. I have had dual webs, tracking enhancers, light drones, tracking rigs, and neuts are not possible on all ships. I fly manually to reduce transversal, none of those things are effective counters in most or all situations


Nothing is possible in all ships and as I stated in my first post in this thread it's all about tradeoffs. Pick the right ship for the job at hand and accept what you are trading off for that job. There are hard counters to frigates but not all ships can have them. I know I wouldn't go up against a neuting drone boat in a frigate unless I was doing it specifically for a suicide tackle. But I sure as hell would have no problems going up against a pure turret cruiser or battleship and that is how the game should be.

Anyways im done with this with you because you have your opinion and you are sticking by it no matter how wrong it is.
Good luck.


Ok so, what limited role does that leave for the turret cruisers and battleships? Seeing as they can be hard countered by any frigate they come across with little effort and no defense?