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[December] Discovering a New Expedition Frigate

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SpaceSaft
Almost Dangerous
Wolves Amongst Strangers
#41 - 2015-10-02 20:16:51 UTC  |  Edited by: SpaceSaft
New hulls are always appreciated.

Sorry math clarification question:

procurer has 300 * 0.4 *( 1-skill*0.02) = 108s / block ?

and 12k ore hold + 2 low slots

discovery has 360 * 0.5 *(1-skill*0.05)*(1-skill*0.05) = 101.25s / block ?

and 15k ore hold + 3 low slots

At max skills the discovery will mine faster than a procurer?

Makes sense since one of the main reason to use the proc is the tank, but at least the cargohold seems rather large to me.

Quote:
The Discovery and Prospect will be the only ship capable of mining ice from the frigate only Shattered Wormholes.


That doesn't really make sense to me. Everything can mine or harvest gas, nobody will harvest gas in something else than a venture or a prospect though, Why do you want to deny people the ability to mine ice (in ventures, with say half the boni), when you're not restricting gas?

From a technical point of view I assume you're doing the expedition frigate restriction because you want to restrict the module to a ship class and the venture isn't it's own class, it's just a frigate, because :legacy code:? Doesn't explain why you want to restrict it in the first place...

The one real complaint I have is that the 'discovery' is not a very fitting name for an industrial ship. Especially one that is as themed as this one. Can't really think of a... cool... name either. Reading up on southpole expeditions "Endurance" seems better, but not optimal either. Idk, maybe someone else in the thread has a better one? Anyway you should really keep "discovery" for an exploration themed ship.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2015-10-02 20:28:27 UTC
Strata Maslav wrote:
Ransu Asanari wrote:
I agree- I don't see why the Venture shouldn't be able to fit these small ice harvesting lasers. It doesn't have any bonuses to ice harvesting, and only a 5000m3 cargobay, so it will be extremely inefficient compared to the Prospect/Discovery, but for a very new player at least it would let them participate during group ice mining operations without requiring a Mining Barge. The main thing here is to make sure they are not excluded from participating because of their low SP.


I agree, even though from my perspective barges have a low SP ceiling there doesn't seem to be enough justification to stop the venture from using the new Ice mining lasers.

We should stay clear of artificially limited modules, otherwise we will miss out on players finding interesting interactions.


in wh there would be tons of people using them instead of training for t2 variant.

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#43 - 2015-10-02 20:34:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Selaria Unbertable
SpaceSaft wrote:
New hulls are always appreciated.

Sorry math clarification question:

procurer has 300 * 0.4 *( 1-skill*0.02) = 108s / block ?

and 12k ore hold + 2 low slots

discovery has 360 * 0.5 *(1-skill*0.05)*(1-skill*0.05) = 101.25s / block ?


Actually 1/3 of the time, the Discovery has a 200% role bonus to ice mining yield. So it would harvest 3 blocks per 108s with a T1 ice laser... I think that's even more than a Hulk.
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#44 - 2015-10-02 20:44:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Selaria Unbertable
CCP Terminus wrote:

Discovery

...

Role Bonuses:
  • 200% bonus to Mining yield


Are you sure it's not 100%? 200% would mean it can harvest 3 blocks per cycle. With all those duration reductions, that seems pretty strong. I mean, that would theoretically even surpass a Hulk. Not that I'm not fond of a pure ice harvesting ship, but that seems a lot... Looks like I have to train another alt into Expedition frigates sooner than later.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#45 - 2015-10-02 20:45:10 UTC
SpaceSaft wrote:
New hulls are always appreciated.

Sorry math clarification question:

procurer has 300 * 0.4 *( 1-skill*0.02) = 108s / block ?

and 12k ore hold + 2 low slots

discovery has 360 * 0.5 *(1-skill*0.05)*(1-skill*0.05) = 101.25s / block ?

and 15k ore hold + 3 low slots

At max skills the discovery will mine faster than a procurer?

Makes sense since one of the main reason to use the proc is the tank, but at least the cargohold seems rather large to me.

Quote:
The Discovery and Prospect will be the only ship capable of mining ice from the frigate only Shattered Wormholes.


That doesn't really make sense to me. Everything can mine or harvest gas, nobody will harvest gas in something else than a venture or a prospect though, Why do you want to deny people the ability to mine ice (in ventures, with say half the boni), when you're not restricting gas?

From a technical point of view I assume you're doing the expedition frigate restriction because you want to restrict the module to a ship class and the venture isn't it's own class, it's just a frigate, because :legacy code:? Doesn't explain why you want to restrict it in the first place...

The one real complaint I have is that the 'discovery' is not a very fitting name for an industrial ship. Especially one that is as themed as this one. Can't really think of a... cool... name either. Reading up on southpole expeditions "Endurance" seems better, but not optimal either. Idk, maybe someone else in the thread has a better one? Anyway you should really keep "discovery" for an exploration themed ship.


maybe the extractor

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#46 - 2015-10-02 21:46:46 UTC
Selaria Unbertable wrote:
CCP Terminus wrote:

Discovery

...

Role Bonuses:
  • 200% bonus to Mining yield


Are you sure it's not 100%? 200% would mean it can harvest 3 blocks per cycle. With all those duration reductions, that seems pretty strong. I mean, that would theoretically even surpass a Hulk. Not that I'm not fond of a pure ice harvesting ship, but that seems a lot... Looks like I have to train another alt into Expedition frigates sooner than later.

it says mining yield, so I was assuming that doesn't count vs ice. otherwise I think it would be insane for mining ice Shocked

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#47 - 2015-10-02 21:55:17 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:

Discovery

Expedition Frigates bonuses (per skill level):
  • 5% reduction to Ice Harvesting duration
  • 4% bonus to all shield resistances

Mining Frigate bonuses (per skill level):
  • 5% reduction to Ice Harvesting duration
  • 5% bonus to Mining yield


Thank you for listening! Now I have one concern. The Discovery will be the first tech 2 ship in EVE that has a tech 2 ship as requirement.
Is that intended?

It has never been the case that a tech2 ships comes from a tech2 ship. It would make much more sense if the Discovery would be a second tech2 iteration of the Venture like assault frigates do.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Alundil
Rolled Out
#48 - 2015-10-02 21:58:02 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
I like the idea. I'm sure it will have some use for WH folks, but I have yet to ever see someone ninja mining ores in null sec - gas, yes - but not ores. Not sure ninja ice mining will ever be a thing.

Shattered Wormholes have shattered ice belts. This ship will be the only ice miner capable of getting to those and harvesting ice. So there will be people using them for that in the interest of self-sufficiency. That would be my guess.

I'm right behind you
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#49 - 2015-10-02 22:00:33 UTC
I am a bit curious how many people actually use the Prospect for mining? I would assume enough to generate the development of this new ship?

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
DarkAsh Andrard
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#50 - 2015-10-02 22:02:42 UTC  |  Edited by: DarkAsh Andrard
Quote:
CCP Terminus wrote:

Discovery

Expedition Frigates bonuses (per skill level):
5% reduction to Ice Harvesting duration
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Mining Frigate bonuses (per skill level):
5% reduction to Ice Harvesting duration
5% bonus to Mining yield


What I always wonder is why put that 2nd (per skill level) bonuses there, like if you had the option to train for it less. From what I've seen, all T2's require you to have that secondary skill (destroyer, frigate, cruiser, etc) to V before you can even start to train in the primary T2 skill, in this case Expedition Frigate.
Why don't they just put that secondary skill set at x5 into the Role bonus or part of the stats. It would make things a lot clearer, since you have to train it anyway to V.

e.g. Discovery

Expedition Frigates bonuses (per skill level):
5% reduction to Ice Harvesting duration
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonuses:
225% bonus to Mining yield
75% reduction to Ice Harvesting duration
50% reduction in Cloaking Devices CPU requirement
Cloak reactivation delay and targeting delay reduced to 5 seconds
No penalty to ship max velocity when using Cloaking Devices
Centurax
CSR Engineering Solutions
Citizen's Star Republic
#51 - 2015-10-02 22:03:45 UTC
Firstly this is very cool, cant wait to have these available.

Not sure if 15,000 (15 ice blocks) is enough cargo space, how about giving it the ability to compress the ice blocks?

Kinda a side note, but related:

Ok we have the Venture, Prospect and now the Discovery, is there any chance of having a destroyer sized or a covert ops variation of the Noctis as a mining boost ship to go along with these ships?

DarkAsh Andrard
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#52 - 2015-10-02 22:03:56 UTC
Petrified wrote:
I am a bit curious how many people actually use the Prospect for mining? I would assume enough to generate the development of this new ship?


I use it for gas mining (or did) all the time when I was in WH space. The bonus + covert cloak is awesome for ninja gas mining :)
Durakili
Doomheim
#53 - 2015-10-02 22:49:16 UTC
Centurax wrote:
Firstly this is very cool, cant wait to have these available.

Not sure if 15,000 (15 ice blocks) is enough cargo space, how about giving it the ability to compress the ice blocks?




Thats a Skiff hold..... so it should be ok....

Plus, its designed as the Ninja ice miner- so filling up fast and GFTO should be its M.O.....

Although- if those yields stay, I'm going to ditch my Hulk miners and just run these puppies. The yield puts it in Hulk territory, with a faster align potential (and sig tanking rats as well)...
Tseehn Marhn
Rat Duck
#54 - 2015-10-02 22:54:09 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
so is there any difference between covert cloaks and when a normal cloaking device is put on this ship?


You can't use a standard cloak while in warp.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2015-10-02 23:22:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Ersahi Kir
SpaceSaft wrote:
New hulls are always appreciated.

Sorry math clarification question:

procurer has 300 * 0.4 *( 1-skill*0.02) = 108s / block ?

and 12k ore hold + 2 low slots

discovery has 360 * 0.5 *(1-skill*0.05)*(1-skill*0.05) = 101.25s / block ?

and 15k ore hold + 3 low slots

At max skills the discovery will mine faster than a procurer?


You're math is off. The procurer has 2x 2% bonuses (one for mining barge, one for exhumer). That will knock off another 10.8 seconds.

Edit: I'm a moron, the procurer only has 1 2% bonus, the skiff has 2. That's what I get for reading the forums on a friday before I leave.

elitatwo wrote:
CCP Terminus wrote:

Discovery

Expedition Frigates bonuses (per skill level):
  • 5% reduction to Ice Harvesting duration
  • 4% bonus to all shield resistances

Mining Frigate bonuses (per skill level):
  • 5% reduction to Ice Harvesting duration
  • 5% bonus to Mining yield


Thank you for listening! Now I have one concern. The Discovery will be the first tech 2 ship in EVE that has a tech 2 ship as requirement.
Is that intended?

It has never been the case that a tech2 ships comes from a tech2 ship. It would make much more sense if the Discovery would be a second tech2 iteration of the Venture like assault frigates do.


This ship uses the same skill as the prospect. They're not adding a new skill for it, they're adding another ship that is available to people who already have expedition frigates.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#56 - 2015-10-02 23:24:18 UTC
Tseehn Marhn wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
so is there any difference between covert cloaks and when a normal cloaking device is put on this ship?


You can't use a standard cloak while in warp.


Ah, true, good point

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Captain Davison
Malachi Keep Detachments
#57 - 2015-10-02 23:27:40 UTC
Petrified wrote:
I am a bit curious how many people actually use the Prospect for mining? I would assume enough to generate the development of this new ship?


I do. Vastly safer than a conventional mining barge or ship for lowsec and nullsec mining. Well, maybe not friendly nullsec, but hostile?

I know literally just yesterday I used one to evade a battlecruiser ambush squad. Cloaked when they dropped on the grid, angled myself nearly straight down off the ecliptic and burned to safety under cloak at 500 m/s. Poor guy couldn't catch me and sat around trying to figure out which way I might have gone while I orbited him at 75 km.
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#58 - 2015-10-02 23:39:05 UTC
Seems like a reasonable frigate with a very niche purpose (as t2 ships generally are).

I do question the value of the ORE mining lasers and strips. Slightly better range is basically useless, especially for the prices these things tend to go for. How about a slightly better cycle time instead? More incentive to use them and of course more to lose when the ships explodes Big smile

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Mr Grape Drink
Doomheim
#59 - 2015-10-02 23:48:02 UTC
Can we discuss the faction variant? A range bonus isn't going to cut it on a frig sized module for ice. Look at the ORE Miner. It gets a bonus to M3 AND range. Making it kinda worth the value. Can you think about matching this to the Ice Miner as well?

Thank you,

A concerned resident of Outer Ring :D
Mr Grape Drink
Doomheim
#60 - 2015-10-02 23:48:49 UTC
Galphii wrote:
Seems like a reasonable frigate with a very niche purpose (as t2 ships generally are).

I do question the value of the ORE mining lasers and strips. Slightly better range is basically useless, especially for the prices these things tend to go for. How about a slightly better cycle time instead? More incentive to use them and of course more to lose when the ships explodes Big smile


Another who agrees with me :D