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Jump clone
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Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2015-09-30 19:45:30 UTC
Could we get jump cloning to the clone in station, to have no cooldown timer?
I believe this would encourage pvp, as people would be more willing to jump into a pvp clone from a pve clone within the same station if it had no cooldown, and they knew they could jump back into it after the fight was over.
a lot of people wont fight simply because of the cost of implants.


keep the present timers for jumping to different stations / systems.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#2 - 2015-09-30 20:12:44 UTC
well barring the whole "free power projection to anywhere" and "i guess having +5s now has no downsides" etc...

You are not the first time to have suggested this, but there are legion reasons as to why this both wont and shouldn't happen
Leto Aramaus
Frog Team Four
Of Essence
#3 - 2015-09-30 20:46:40 UTC
FireFrenzy wrote:
well barring the whole "free power projection to anywhere" and "i guess having +5s now has no downsides" etc...

You are not the first time to have suggested this, but there are legion reasons as to why this both wont and shouldn't happen


He said in same station. So that means 0% projection.

But yes your point about clone choice still stands.

The UI update we deserve
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-09-30 20:55:18 UTC
I'd settle for a reduced timer, as we are only able to have 2 clones in a single station, it does limit the endless choice argument, but that can also be circumvented by using multiple stations. A reduced timer would be an acceptable middle ground.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#5 - 2015-10-01 01:02:48 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
I'd settle for a reduced timer, as we are only able to have 2 clones in a single station, it does limit the endless choice argument, but that can also be circumvented by using multiple stations. A reduced timer would be an acceptable middle ground.


Or maybe even the same solar system you are in. Let's say you are in Amarr and Amarr has three stations and if you want to switch from a pve clone to a pvp clone the jump timer gets reduced to something like 4-6 hours instead of 18/19 we have now.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#6 - 2015-10-01 03:10:19 UTC
The removal of attributes will solve pretty much all these issues anyway, just have to persuade CCP that the LP market will adjust and people will survive without selling attribute implants.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#7 - 2015-10-01 03:33:48 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The removal of attributes will solve pretty much all these issues anyway, just have to persuade CCP that the LP market will adjust and people will survive without selling attribute implants.


This is clearly the best solution, but I would also support the OP's idea.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-10-01 03:37:31 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The removal of attributes will solve pretty much all these issues anyway, just have to persuade CCP that the LP market will adjust and people will survive without selling attribute implants.



Not precisely... there is still the concern about jumping between say a slave and snake set, but yes it does resolve the training clone/everything else clone situation.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2015-10-01 08:03:24 UTC
Why don't you just ask for a intergalactic jump drive that jumps you anywhere in New Eden?

Doesn't seem fair for it to have no cooldown, as you would be too easily able to disengage any vengeful pvper.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-10-01 08:10:25 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Why don't you just ask for a intergalactic jump drive that jumps you anywhere in New Eden?

Doesn't seem fair for it to have no cooldown, as you would be too easily able to disengage any vengeful pvper.


Think you need to reread the thread, nobody is asking for no cooldown when jumping to another place (not in same station)
The ability to rat in your PvE clone and change to a PvP clone should in theory increase bouth acitvities.
1: People change to their PvE clone and rat when its slow, more people in space for roamin ggangs to hunt
2: People dock when hostile enter system (as now), change to PvP clone and undock to fight (dont happen now)
3: People change to PvP clones and try to find a fight when enough friendlies are online to form a fleet (more roamers)

As long as its limited to clones in same station i see no drawback for it
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#11 - 2015-10-01 08:13:08 UTC
Haatakan Reppola wrote:

As long as its limited to clones in same station i see no drawback for it

Change to implantless PVP clone, roam anywhere. End of the day just dock up if your ship survived and pod express yourself back to your PvE location via med clone. Then go one station over or whatever and enter PvE clone.

It does remove massive consequences on that front.
This can be argued as a good or a bad thing.
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#12 - 2015-10-01 09:46:09 UTC
I don't object as such to the OPs proposal but I do have a concern.

My friends and I live in a LowSec system with 19 stations, if this proposal were to go live we would potentially not only have a clone for almost any conceivable situation but the ability to switch between them as the situation in system or surrounding systems evolved enabling us to always be in the optimal ship and clone.

While I admit that my case is an extreme example as many are not so lucky in the availability of stations in and around their home systems I have to ask do you really want to see the home field advantage increased like this?

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Persephone IX
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2015-10-01 11:09:19 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The removal of attributes will solve pretty much all these issues anyway, just have to persuade CCP that the LP market will adjust and people will survive without selling attribute implants.


Since learning skills are gone, there is no need for learning implants. And LP stores will benefit too.

CCP, Can I Haz My Stuff?
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#14 - 2015-10-01 14:47:38 UTC
I'd go for this ONLY if the no time clone was blank (no implants).

Your idea doesn't improve pvp. It takes away the value of making choices that have consequences.

Seriously, if your options are swap to HG slaves or don't fight - you totally don't get this game. What's the checklist your are working for?

1. Booster providing super powers
2. Falcon on standby
3. 3x logi on standby
4. Right clone for the ship being flown

OK, now I can undock and pvp


PVP is about fun and excitement and other good stuff. If you're so hung up on winning that you need everything perfect then tic-tac-toe is the game for you.

'I can't / won't pvp because I'm not in the right clone' is risk averse coward talk - DON'T BE THAT GUY.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#15 - 2015-10-01 15:03:55 UTC
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Why don't you just ask for a intergalactic jump drive that jumps you anywhere in New Eden?

Doesn't seem fair for it to have no cooldown, as you would be too easily able to disengage any vengeful pvper.


Think you need to reread the thread, nobody is asking for no cooldown when jumping to another place (not in same station)
The ability to rat in your PvE clone and change to a PvP clone should in theory increase bouth acitvities.
1: People change to their PvE clone and rat when its slow, more people in space for roamin ggangs to hunt
2: People dock when hostile enter system (as now), change to PvP clone and undock to fight (dont happen now)
3: People change to PvP clones and try to find a fight when enough friendlies are online to form a fleet (more roamers)

As long as its limited to clones in same station i see no drawback for it



People don't come out and fight because they are afraid of losing. See above.

1. Not the right clone
2. No booster
3. No falcon support
4. No logi support
5. Not enought guys to ensure a blob victory

These are all rewording of "I'm afraid to lose a ship"


Are you really trying to say that pilots will suddenly all start undocking and pvping because they get a free clone swap? This won't aid in more pvp it just aids in home field advantage for defenders because they can just dock and hop in the right clone. If anything this will reduce pvp because it will be more difficult to engage folks outside your home system. Everyone will be waiting at home sitting on thier pile of clones waiting to undock in the perfect counter ship with the perfect clone.

Giving a leg up to guys that don't leave their home system is just a garbage idea.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2015-10-01 17:19:20 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Why don't you just ask for a intergalactic jump drive that jumps you anywhere in New Eden?

Doesn't seem fair for it to have no cooldown, as you would be too easily able to disengage any vengeful pvper.


Think you need to reread the thread, nobody is asking for no cooldown when jumping to another place (not in same station)
The ability to rat in your PvE clone and change to a PvP clone should in theory increase bouth acitvities.
1: People change to their PvE clone and rat when its slow, more people in space for roamin ggangs to hunt
2: People dock when hostile enter system (as now), change to PvP clone and undock to fight (dont happen now)
3: People change to PvP clones and try to find a fight when enough friendlies are online to form a fleet (more roamers)

As long as its limited to clones in same station i see no drawback for it



People don't come out and fight because they are afraid of losing. See above.

1. Not the right clone
2. No booster
3. No falcon support
4. No logi support
5. Not enought guys to ensure a blob victory

These are all rewording of "I'm afraid to lose a ship"


Are you really trying to say that pilots will suddenly all start undocking and pvping because they get a free clone swap? This won't aid in more pvp it just aids in home field advantage for defenders because they can just dock and hop in the right clone. If anything this will reduce pvp because it will be more difficult to engage folks outside your home system. Everyone will be waiting at home sitting on thier pile of clones waiting to undock in the perfect counter ship with the perfect clone.

Giving a leg up to guys that don't leave their home system is just a garbage idea.


People in their home system already have that "leg up" by a larger factor: they can dock and change to whatever ship they think will win or simply stay docked.

Most people dont like PvE so they either get some semi afk activity or want as much isk/hr they can menage to get to lower the time they have to grind. Giving people the option to think their PvE clone is safe means that more people will use a shinier PvE clone for grinding isk, those that get cought will provide a shinier killmail and those that get away would most likely get away with the current system.
Ratting in a shiny clone and changing to a clean clone for PvP can cut the PvP losses by a HUGE margin (+5% implants cost about as much as BS after insurance)

Basicly your number 1 on the list have nothing to do with SHIP when the clone your in can easily cost 5b and you fly up to 300m ship including fitting...
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#17 - 2015-10-01 20:54:01 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:

'I can't / won't pvp because I'm not in the right clone' is risk averse coward talk - DON'T BE THAT GUY.

I take it you are therefore going to fund fresh learning implants for everyone in EVE until CCP finally remove attributes?

Not wanting to risk expensive implants which give you no reward in your current/planned ship is not cowards talk. It's downright sensible.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#18 - 2015-10-01 22:58:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:

'I can't / won't pvp because I'm not in the right clone' is risk averse coward talk - DON'T BE THAT GUY.

I take it you are therefore going to fund fresh learning implants for everyone in EVE until CCP finally remove attributes?

Not wanting to risk expensive implants which give you no reward in your current/planned ship is not cowards talk. It's downright sensible.



Player choice to not run 2 +3's which are both cheap and adequate. 2 implants for the skill(s) in queue ofc.

Get the LG or even MG's (some have a nice price really without omega) now and well.....if the issue is lack of more bang for the buck it's resolved (assuming this is a +4 +5 whine here).


Uber HG's have always been a personal choice as well. Ran the snakes for the speed boosted (usually a link boat in the mix) run and gun roam that was for an an effect. Hope the effect is worth missing a more meat grind like fight that comes in the up in the 19-24 hour window. If out bashing, know the timer will be up on Wednesday your TZ again later....it should not be a surprise that follow up bash op up will come along. Putting in the snakes longer than 19-24 before that not recommended really if wanting to make the predicted op.


The player bearing it up, running the say HG crystal, that too was for effect. Isk per hour running min tank/max damage (where the HG's help the weaker tank by boosting the reps) or won't do something radical like warp out to get a second wind. In the case of 0.0 probably running a 10/10 or good CA clearly designed for several players but opting for solo. that was the desired effect...hope the isk made happiness feeling greater than missing a fight in that 19-24 hour window as well.

Why I Iiked +3's and cheaper wires in 0.0 anyway. Hardwires optional. Always ready.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2015-10-02 02:00:59 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The removal of attributes will solve pretty much all these issues anyway, just have to persuade CCP that the LP market will adjust and people will survive without selling attribute implants.



Not precisely... there is still the concern about jumping between say a slave and snake set, but yes it does resolve the training clone/everything else clone situation.

Honestly, that first concern is the primary reason I would use it. Being stuck with one kind of bonus when you're willing to risk an equally expensive set for a different role can be annoying.