Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Give jumpdrives the ability to jump to solar systems within range without cyno, ending up in a random location.

I can see this making cap movement a lot more comfortable and removes certain pay2win elements of alt accounts. On the flip side though, I can see those that like to hunt capitals not liking this.

My argument would be that in moat cases capitals are actually used is in fights where a cyno would be wildly more effective anyway, or through objective based mechanics where the "hunt" aspect would still be appropriate.

Maybe balancing it by creating a "cyno" warpable effect where the jumper lands for locals to react quickly. Making blind jumps scary.

Discuss!

Also bonus suggestion: give marauders jumpdrives

Alt accounts are the very definition of pay to win, but it is so common in eve that people seem to glaze over it, but I agree that there technically ways to move a capital without using alt accounts, and certainly groupplay aspects...

No is not a very interesting reply to a discussion

Sure, the marauder doesn't "need" jumpdrive, in the same sense that you don't need alt accounts to move capitals... but looking at how people are playing the game, sins/machariels are used throughout nullsec for escalations because of the ease of movement. If price is an objection, then certainly a carrier is more bang for ur buck.. and while this would be a luxury in highsec, I see no big problems with them being more comfortable/safe to use as the endgame missionrunner. Rattlesnakes still outperform anything else in level 4's

Posting in a stealth "I want to run escalations in my marauder and be able to jump it safely to the destination without an alt while landing in a random safespot" thread

-9001

By this argument warp to sun is slightly silly aswell. But I can see that you feel such a change being to overpowered, so lets try and add uncomfortable aspects to it. Such a jump would create a non-fleet specific cyno giving everyone within range a chance to jump after/into. Warp disruptors ruin the effect. Bastion/siege/triage is unable to use it after 30 seconds. There is a 30 second spool up time where a simmilar warp/jump cyno is generated.

You guys are arguing very lazily here

How bout ladies and gentlemenn scotty don't.

Excellent post! I agree on limiting normal battleships, theres should be a certain isk/utility ratio at work here, so this makes good sense. Marauders I think is in a bad place right now, and this would make them a very strong ship type, which is kind of what they are meant to be...

As for jumping to solar system limitations, I'm not reslly sure how valid the problem with having permabeacons is, as most of the arguments against is based on the old power projection problems before phoebe. If an attacking force is in a staging system within jumprange they would still be interested iin setting up a foothold pos asap, something that is easily done with covops cyno/bridge now. The biggest argument i can see is that by using the map info layer you can bypass a bunch of systems without giving out a breadcrumb trail given by the cyno pilot. The need for a scout would still be a valid tactic, and jumping in blind and locking you in place for 30 seconds with a universal warp to beacon sounds actually slightly riskier than the current playstyle.

Having a beacon on a pos, and placing a cyno on a station would still be usefull, and certainly for batphoning usage/escalations.

Backstory-wise, there's absolutely no reason for us to not be able to jump independently. I've discussed this many times with people all over the place, and it usually boils down to a discussion on what could be done to balance it and make it not OP.

Here's the latest idea and plan that's come up that works, in theory:

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Allow ships with a jump drive to jump to the sun of a system within range:

Ship will land in a random place within a radius of the sun - not at the sun's beacon or a celestial - in a completely random spot.

Upon landing, a small deadspace pocket is generated with a "spatial distortion" appearing and functioning as the warpable beacon at a distance of between 75-150km - not on top of the ship, preventing attackers from landing on top of a target.

The jumping ship will incur the same capacitor drain as a normal jump does.

Advantages:

No need for a cyno - more independent and free-to-move.

No one can tell you're about to jump into the system until you're there and the beacon spawns.

Disadvantages:

No intel on landing system.

No control of landing point in system.

Groups of ships jumping will not land together.

There's any combination of ways the system could work - and with the upcoming capital rebalance, I'd honestly expect this to become a thing in some capacity.

So that's a +1 for the concept, because it's an interesting idea that could bring a lot of engaging content to players and make capital ships more attractive in some ways to more players by allowing more flexibility and possibility.

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As for the bonus suggestion concerning marauders, I've had an idea of my own before:

A rig that comes in size Large only: a modular jump drive that can be fitted to ships utilizing large rigs only (all Battleships, excluding Black Ops as a class from fitting it, as well as the Orca). The rig would require significant resources to produce, giving it high value, would take 300 calibration for the Tech I, 225 for the Tech II, and would grant the ship it's fitted to a jump drive with a reduced range compared to normally jump-capable ships' range at the cost of most of its calibration (and, perhaps, incurring some other penalty as well).

It's an idea to think of, but one that could end up either well-balanced and fun, allowing Battleships to have a wider scope of uses and abilities, or it could vastly upset balance. Again, it's just an idea.

So it's a +0 for the bonus, I suppose - I'm neutral

Any posts like this encourage discussion, which is a good thing here in the F&I discussion forum - good on ya, OP.

-Uriel

I said that if you want to have Sov-like mobility in non sov space, you need to somehow restrict it by a large degree.

The way I understand it, you want to revamp the cyno or even make it obsolete (new module? ), use stars for each and every jump, and provide a means to warp to that on overview. Somehow perturbing the star to become a beacon. Sort of don't need to have a module , i have a star. Then you only have a fixed point where you can cyno in. Please explain a bit more what you mean.

You will still need to use an alt, so i dont see the point of that. More or less same as cyno. Cyno aint broke, so why fix it

I would prefer stars to be fixed point of reference for jump capable ships, but with constraints to time window availability and mass(Caps only). Follow on the success of wh mechanics.

Restrictions in the form of movement speed is already in place because of phoebe, so I'm not sure why you need to restrict it further. I guess we could limit the # of jumps to a star possible every hour or something, but this would not really have much effect, as the first jumper could just cyno when the limit was met and this would actually ruin a potential counterattack. So I'm not quite sure how much of a desired effect such an artificial limiter would be.

And no, I'm not proposing to remove cynosural firld generators, there are still many reasons for why you would want to pinpoint the desired jump location, aswell as keeping cyno beacons on pos'es for added security and negation of danger. I do want the solar system in and of itself to be a beacon you can jump to, and the landing location to be random all over the solar system. I feel a decent balance would be to generate a warp to object in local overview for intercept possibilities, something that is similar to how cynos function now. The duration of this effect should probabøy only ladt for 30 seconds, as anything longer would just force a static routine when landing instead of slight variations.



Why are you taking a current mechanic and suddenly putting restrictions on that; there are very few situations where this would ever matter, and to me just feels like you are trying to think up ways to hinder the comfort by making the user jump through arbitrary hoops. As the new citadels come warping to the sun and immediately jumping seems like a weird requirement, before you would actuslly either have to turn the ship around or safespot it. If anything we could do a much broader restriction on this by saying that if there are any objects within 50km such a jump would not be possible due to sensor instability, but again, this is not how the current system works, so I'm thinking this would just be hoops for the sake of hoops.

I also agree that the rng suggestion is horrible, but I can also feel a certain kind of eve masochism which makes us want to hurt ourselves, because thats how the game works. I'm kinda trying to make the argument that we don't have to feel that way just because of legacy code restrictions.

Thank you borh for you input!

To random and unpredictable safespot, sorry, location? Not supported.

To a predictable spot like within 10 km from the sun, just like you appear at predictable place when jumping through gate (your means of solo travel bar WHs), and with some warning to offset less visible nature of travelling by jumping while also omitting cyno beacom appearing in overview? Maaaaybe. But this idea is kinda old.

It might be old, but with incoming capital rebalance and a more practical grasp of phoebe effects, I think it is worth revisiting. I'm actually not against static jump in points, like the sun - but I feel this wouldn't actually effect the game at all, since an interdictor in local would probably choose to sit on a gate, with an eye on overview/local for jump ins. Maybe having the spool up timer of 30 seconds start the first half of a warpable cyno in the destination system, which last 30 seconds after jumping aswell - giving slightly better chance of being prepared.

Personally i'd love to see other elements of gameplay change even more, but i'm trying to restrict myself to very narrow changes...