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Null Sec and Low Sec Mining Tactics

Author
Davinthan
The Corp With No Names
Brothers of Tangra
#1 - 2015-09-16 20:07:29 UTC
Hi all, I think this is my first topic I have ever posted.

So I am looking for an improved strategy for Null and Lowsec mining. My thought was that I would start asking ccp about providing us some special defence or offensive functions to better protect our mining fleets.

I have experimented with Warp bubble surrounding the main paths to the mining fleet location. My thought was could we potentially request a mobile defense battery that we could post round our fleets to protect us from smaller gangs and single hunters?

What are your thoughts or what other ideas do you have?

Davinthan, Hazard Factory Indy Director and Master Mining Slave
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#2 - 2015-09-16 22:27:26 UTC
I tend to doubt that will happen to be honest.

You could defend yourselves fairly well by having a group in skiffs. They have rather impressive tanks plus get a nice drone bonus. A few of them can drive off most non-determined groups.
Taran McJingleberi
Three-Headed Monkeys
#3 - 2015-09-16 23:57:35 UTC
Why stop with defense batteries? How about a properly stocked bar and a massage while we are at it? Roll
GODS H4ND
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2015-09-17 12:12:43 UTC
Taran McJingleberi wrote:
Why stop with defense batteries? How about a properly stocked bar and a massage while we are at it? Roll



you offering? ;)
PecX Ocedei
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#5 - 2015-09-18 18:53:49 UTC
GODS H4ND wrote:
Taran McJingleberi wrote:
Why stop with defense batteries? How about a properly stocked bar and a massage while we are at it? Roll



you offering? ;)


If he isn't then I am! Seriously though, I agree with Sheeth, the only defense that a fleet needs is a ton of Skiffs. Those things are nasty. I have seen many times a lone hunter going through null, and attacking a skiff only for him to wind up on our KB because of Warrior II. If you had a battery that you could deploy to scare away fleets, all that would do is encourage AFK mining, which I am very much so against.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#6 - 2015-09-18 20:41:07 UTC
You can certainly try (probably in the suggestions & features subforum), but I think there will be a very vocal group of players opposed to the idea.
Rengor Elongur
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-09-21 09:10:57 UTC
I read your post and realized you did say "Fleet"

This does imply the presence of more than one ship. I just checked and noticed that eve has a few ships that are capable of mounting turrents or missile launchers. If i understood correctly these ships can be used to shoot folks, which you could utilize for protection.

Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#8 - 2015-09-21 22:45:59 UTC
Rengor Elongur wrote:
I read your post and realized you did say "Fleet"

This does imply the presence of more than one ship. I just checked and noticed that eve has a few ships that are capable of mounting turrents or missile launchers. If i understood correctly these ships can be used to shoot folks, which you could utilize for protection.



You volunteering to go defend miners? Didn't think so P The "have friends" argument isn't really realistic when it comes to guarding indy people. It's just too damn boring
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
The Bastion
#9 - 2015-09-22 00:50:03 UTC
I mine in nullsec, and occasionally in hisec. I do not mine in lowsec. I do not AFK-mine, except for very short intervals when I know I’ll be back within a minute or so.

IMHO the best defence for nullsec miners is their ability to warp away. Couple that with a competent early warning system, such as eyes in neighbouring system(s) - and a little bit of general eve-savvy, care, and patience - and you have the necessary elements of entirely safe nullsec mining. Of course, if your mining is in a system within your particular blue-donut and at the end of a long pipeline you also have the benefits of additional intel eyes and the attractive possibility that any potential hostiles will be killed before they get to you. Add-in system cyno-jamming and you’ve got another small layer of (partial) protection.

Skiffs are great for nullsec mining, despite the fact that they do not return as much ore-per-picosecond as other exhumers. They tank-up very nicely which allows them to survive BS-rat spawns easily, and also allows them to shrug off solo hostiles or (in numbers) some small gangs. Skiffs also align-warp faster than other exhumers. Not only that but Skiffs have a decent drone bay which makes for many killmails where wannabe miner-killers failed to appreciate the offensive capabilities of this humble exhumer. I eschew mining drones and carry a flight of ECs, a flight of warrior IIs, and a flight of Hammerheads IIs.

The eve-savvy, care, and patience comes into play when potential attackers play their little games. Just because they’ve disappeared from local it does not mean you’re safe yet. That unaccounted-for Cynabal on your DSCAN is their ship still in space after they’ve pulled a logoffski. They know where you were mining (e.g. from the cans and wrecks) and they’re giving you time to return. Alternatively they may have bookmarked your jet-cans and be sitting at zero on a neighbouring gate, again giving you time to return to your mining before they strike. Know their tricks and how to counter them.

It’s best to not warp direct to a station / outpost … unless you’re confident of entering warp before any hostiles enter your system. Many miners die in hostile dictor bubbles near their ‘safe’ station or outpost. A roaming hostile fleet will often send their dictor to bubble the station as the rest of the fleet members ‘shotgun’ to belts and sigs. If you warp to a perch near a friendly POS, and then to the POS itself, then you’re much less likely to find yourself tackled and killed.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

elise densi
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2015-09-26 06:57:04 UTC
as above also having decent intel and ppl on coms is a great thing and being in a fleet together power in numbers

friends who live with me in null killed alot of hotdroppers and roaming stealthbombers with skiffs

well fitted skiff has 80k ehp and can do up to 200-500 dps depending on lowslot and drones

and a combat booster offgrid is nice to
Davinthan
The Corp With No Names
Brothers of Tangra
#11 - 2015-09-26 21:44:54 UTC
Well I see I have some well thought out responses. Some have difficulty with organized thought.

So here's the deal, I have use skiffs which work well but, if you have a gang jump you you're screwed. I speak from experience. AFK mining doesn't work well and anyone that has mined knows this is mind numbing work. I am not suggesting we make this possible.

I have currently had WH gangs jump in with four to five players at once. These guys are experienced miner killers and not much will help!

SPecial fleets with many miners can survive longer with help coming and using a drone ball is most effective.

So none of you have offer any new tactics.

I was thinking of maybe a Smart bomb on a skiff? Or maybe use a retriever with only one laser and a smart bomb in the other slot.

Has anyone tried these ideas?

I do pay players to guard also, which was stated as mind numbing work too.
Davinthan
The Corp With No Names
Brothers of Tangra
#12 - 2015-09-26 21:45:46 UTC
elise densi wrote:
as above also having decent intel and ppl on coms is a great thing and being in a fleet together power in numbers

friends who live with me in null killed alot of hotdroppers and roaming stealthbombers with skiffs

well fitted skiff has 80k ehp and can do up to 200-500 dps depending on lowslot and drones

and a combat booster offgrid is nice to



Thanks for you response.
Davinthan
The Corp With No Names
Brothers of Tangra
#13 - 2015-09-26 21:48:01 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
I mine in nullsec, and occasionally in hisec. I do not mine in lowsec. I do not AFK-mine, except for very short intervals when I know I’ll be back within a minute or so.

IMHO the best defence for nullsec miners is their ability to warp away. Couple that with a competent early warning system, such as eyes in neighbouring system(s) - and a little bit of general eve-savvy, care, and patience - and you have the necessary elements of entirely safe nullsec mining. Of course, if your mining is in a system within your particular blue-donut and at the end of a long pipeline you also have the benefits of additional intel eyes and the attractive possibility that any potential hostiles will be killed before they get to you. Add-in system cyno-jamming and you’ve got another small layer of (partial) protection.

Skiffs are great for nullsec mining, despite the fact that they do not return as much ore-per-picosecond as other exhumers. They tank-up very nicely which allows them to survive BS-rat spawns easily, and also allows them to shrug off solo hostiles or (in numbers) some small gangs. Skiffs also align-warp faster than other exhumers. Not only that but Skiffs have a decent drone bay which makes for many killmails where wannabe miner-killers failed to appreciate the offensive capabilities of this humble exhumer. I eschew mining drones and carry a flight of ECs, a flight of warrior IIs, and a flight of Hammerheads IIs.

The eve-savvy, care, and patience comes into play when potential attackers play their little games. Just because they’ve disappeared from local it does not mean you’re safe yet. That unaccounted-for Cynabal on your DSCAN is their ship still in space after they’ve pulled a logoffski. They know where you were mining (e.g. from the cans and wrecks) and they’re giving you time to return. Alternatively they may have bookmarked your jet-cans and be sitting at zero on a neighbouring gate, again giving you time to return to your mining before they strike. Know their tricks and how to counter them.

It’s best to not warp direct to a station / outpost … unless you’re confident of entering warp before any hostiles enter your system. Many miners die in hostile dictor bubbles near their ‘safe’ station or outpost. A roaming hostile fleet will often send their dictor to bubble the station as the rest of the fleet members ‘shotgun’ to belts and sigs. If you warp to a perch near a friendly POS, and then to the POS itself, then you’re much less likely to find yourself tackled and killed.


Nice response but, you offer little new tactics. How about something new?
Davinthan
The Corp With No Names
Brothers of Tangra
#14 - 2015-09-26 21:52:08 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
You can certainly try (probably in the suggestions & features subforum), but I think there will be a very vocal group of players opposed to the idea.


Of course players who kill miners would respond to any suggestion of increasing miner defence capacity.

Use a batteries that have to be targeted and actively managed would remove the AFK thoughts.

I am really trying to get others to think out of the box.
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#15 - 2015-09-27 02:09:28 UTC
There is a difference between thinking outside the box and damaging the game. What you are talking about is more or less POS guns that can be deployed anywhere. This is not good. I don't kill miners, but I'd be vocally against it too.

The reason no one is "thinking outside the box" is because the tried and true methods tend to be the best balance. Throwing on smart bombs wont do any good. They'll just sit outside their range. Not to mention you'll be mining way less the whole time no one is around, which is most of the time.

The reason people keep suggesting the same old thing is because these are the best answers. Use drones, stay aligned, and be ready to run. You're meant to be vulnerable to pvp ships when you're engaged in pve activities. That's how this whole thing works.
Whipple Shai
God is great Beer is good People are crazy
#16 - 2015-09-29 03:37:43 UTC
It's called "watch local and GTFO when the neutrals come knocking." That's the only defense a miner needs/has against other players. Newer isn't always better. Oh, and unless you're already moving in the direction you want to warp, being "aligned" is meaningless.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#17 - 2015-09-29 03:57:33 UTC
A drag bubble off the Warp-In point can save a lot of hassles, just make sure you can still get out to a safe POS when local spikes.

Alternatively, someone sitting in an infipoint HIC or Lachesis/Arazu/Garmur/Orthrus/Barghest/Keres (ships with point/scram range bonuses) with 50 Skiff drones assigned to them can make a hell of a mess out of most small gangs that come looking to blap your mining fleet.

You could also fit a point to one of the Skiffs. Funniest thing I've ever seen was a Skiff chasing a 'ceptor while yelling in local "come back, I'll be your friend!"

Last corp mining op I did we had a solid PvP fleet sat at a POS ready to go. We had a couple of people poke their noses in system and they must have seen the 3x Navy Scorps, 4x Cruisers (forget what type), Kitsune and others and just went 'nope'.....

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#18 - 2015-09-29 21:19:39 UTC
Davinthan wrote:
So I am looking for an improved strategy for Null and Lowsec mining. My thought was that I would start asking ccp about providing us some special defence or offensive functions to better protect our mining fleets.

What you are looking for was what the Rorqual was supposed to be. Cry
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
The Bastion
#19 - 2015-09-30 01:51:20 UTC
Davinthan wrote:
Nice response but, you offer little new tactics. How about something new?


LOL, mine *is* the improved strategy. As an evidence-based data-point, I do not lose miners.
Well, I think I did lose one miner five or so years ago to a hisec suicide ganker, but I have not even had an exhumer scratched in my years of w-space and nullsec mining since.

Those that tweak and short-cut are those who lose their assets. That's fine if it's what you're after but my advice is simply that of experience.

My approach works absolutely fine but, I accept, it is dependent on some effort and savvy on behalf of the miner.
Perhaps you're right, complaining to CCP and getting them to fix the *effort* and competence part might just be a way to go.


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.”
Douglas Adams

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-09-30 07:25:58 UTC
What he wants and is asking for is not in the game. So go with what is in the game and make the best of it. People have given you answers to your question, you just blow them off because you don't like their answer.
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