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What about Damage mitigation on super capitals/titans?

Author
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#1 - 2015-09-28 00:37:02 UTC

damage mitigation concept comes from a need linked to the current meta, as the game continues to evolve. We are at times where a large force will get their strength in their ability to splittimg their forces across multiple battlefields, like the imperium has done in the different Providence constellations. This approach is way better for the gameplay than the previous n+1 massive flleet projection, rolling over everything that cant match their size.

damage mitigation can find a scifi explanation in some kind of energy reaction that creates an extra layer of protection for the largest constructs in game so that damage ends up capped over a period of time to fit the design goal.

Now that the concept of damage mitigation has been introduced for citadels, why not also applying it to the largest capital ships too?







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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-09-28 00:39:52 UTC
Saisin wrote:

damage mitigation concept comes from a need linked to the current meta, as the game continues to evolve. We are at times where a large force will get their strength in their ability to splittimg their forces across multiple battlefields, like the imperium has done in the different Providence constellations. This approach is way better for the gameplay than the previous n+1 massive flleet projection, rolling over everything that cant match their size.

damage mitigation can find a scifi explanation in some kind of energy reaction that creates an extra layer of protection for the largest constructs in game so that damage ends up capped over a period of time to fit the design goal.

Now that the concept of damage mitigation has been introduced for citadels, why not also applying it to the largest capital ships too?



You mean like resist mods that reduce the damage your ship take?
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union
Hatakani Trade Winds Combine
#3 - 2015-09-28 02:25:04 UTC
Damage cap on capitals would be a bad idea. The damage migration system may work on structures, but it would mess up fleet battles.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2015-09-28 16:07:42 UTC
Death to all supercaps.

Don't make it harder to kill them.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#5 - 2015-09-28 16:28:37 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

You mean like resist mods that reduce the damage your ship take?

Not sure if I must read sarcasm or genuine question there.
Resist is very different from damage mitigation. Citadels will have resist mods too, plus damage mitigation added on top.

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Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#6 - 2015-09-28 16:29:46 UTC
Rovinia wrote:
Damage cap on capitals would be a bad idea. The damage migration system may work on structures, but it would mess up fleet battles.

It would change fleet battles, yes, as one FC giving a primary to hundreds of pilots would become useless. It may force fleet to organize at the squads level though. Wouldn;t that be a good thing?

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Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#7 - 2015-09-28 16:31:11 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Death to all supercaps.

Don't make it harder to kill them.

I am certainly very curious to see at Eve Vegas what CCP has planned for this specific type of ships.

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-09-28 16:34:48 UTC
Saisin wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

You mean like resist mods that reduce the damage your ship take?

Not sure if I must read sarcasm or genuine question there.
Resist is very different from damage mitigation. Citadels will have resist mods too, plus damage mitigation added on top.


A damage cap per time would make every single one of them more sturdy in battle because you would have a definite amount of reps required and then nothing work. You can no longer frontload a few DD on a target because it will go over cap and anything else will be repped through.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2015-09-28 16:41:59 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Saisin wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

You mean like resist mods that reduce the damage your ship take?

Not sure if I must read sarcasm or genuine question there.
Resist is very different from damage mitigation. Citadels will have resist mods too, plus damage mitigation added on top.


A damage cap per time would make every single one of them more sturdy in battle because you would have a definite amount of reps required and then nothing work. You can no longer frontload a few DD on a target because it will go over cap and anything else will be repped through.


Which is why in the most recent call to nerf remote logi, I put forth a suggestion that would make it easier to shoot through reps over time.

Whether or not remote logi gets nerfed, I'm already trained out in logi, and I'll weather whatever changes come through. I just hope if changes come through, they're sensible, and make the game more fun.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#10 - 2015-09-28 18:23:04 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Saisin wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

You mean like resist mods that reduce the damage your ship take?

Not sure if I must read sarcasm or genuine question there.
Resist is very different from damage mitigation. Citadels will have resist mods too, plus damage mitigation added on top.


A damage cap per time would make every single one of them more sturdy in battle because you would have a definite amount of reps required and then nothing work. You can no longer frontload a few DD on a target because it will go over cap and anything else will be repped through.


Which is why in the most recent call to nerf remote logi, I put forth a suggestion that would make it easier to shoot through reps over time.

Whether or not remote logi gets nerfed, I'm already trained out in logi, and I'll weather whatever changes come through. I just hope if changes come through, they're sensible, and make the game more fun.


I am aware that this is a problem.

I strongly favor stacking penalties on remote repair, like I mentioned in previous posts.
I do agree that this is why citadels will auto repair, and that this damage mitigation on ships could have to be linked to remote repair stacking penalties becoming a thing.

I have also thought that Doomsday weapons should not be affecting damage mitigation on ships, but not be usable against citadels.

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Leto Aramaus
Frog Team Four
Of Essence
#11 - 2015-09-28 19:50:08 UTC
I'm opposed to damage mitigation of any kind, for ships or structures.

CCP please reconsider introducing this mechanic. As you can see, people are already seeing it as precedent and asking for it on ships as well.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#12 - 2015-09-28 22:28:31 UTC
Leto Aramaus wrote:
I'm opposed to damage mitigation of any kind, for ships or structures.

CCP please reconsider introducing this mechanic. As you can see, people are already seeing it as precedent and asking for it on ships as well.

Because it's actually a good idea and makes the game more fun overall than massive F1 blobs that just alpha ships instantly off the field.
However Super Caps/Titans are the ships least in need of any damage mitigation mechanics of this sort, being the ships least likely to be alpha'ed off the field. The smaller ships are what actually need it.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#13 - 2015-09-28 22:47:27 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
...However Super Caps/Titans are the ships least in need of any damage mitigation mechanics of this sort, being the ships least likely to be alpha'ed off the field. The smaller ships are what actually need it.

This is an interesting discussion point.
It is not about alphaing as much (this issues being more linked to a possible remote rep change) than making overwhelming numbers not as efficient.
Imho, it would be the capitals that would benefit from this more...

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Leto Aramaus
Frog Team Four
Of Essence
#14 - 2015-09-29 01:30:26 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Leto Aramaus wrote:
I'm opposed to damage mitigation of any kind, for ships or structures.

CCP please reconsider introducing this mechanic. As you can see, people are already seeing it as precedent and asking for it on ships as well.

Because it's actually a good idea and makes the game more fun overall than massive F1 blobs that just alpha ships instantly off the field.
However Super Caps/Titans are the ships least in need of any damage mitigation mechanics of this sort, being the ships least likely to be alpha'ed off the field. The smaller ships are what actually need it.


I don't think it will make the game more fun.

I think EVE's fun level suffers for other reasons, such as travel mechanics, and you and the rest of the damage mitigation and logi-nerf crowd are deluding yourselves into thinking N+1 DPS is the problem.
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#15 - 2015-09-29 04:53:54 UTC
Bring back the off grid pit-stop logi from years ago.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-09-29 07:42:20 UTC
Leto Aramaus wrote:
I'm opposed to damage mitigation of any kind, for ships or structures.

CCP please reconsider introducing this mechanic. As you can see, people are already seeing it as precedent and asking for it on ships as well.



The current structure iteration is only viable because you can't rep it. Plus it's there to try and mitigate the n+1 scenario we ***** about all day long. Can't have it both ways.




Anyway, to OP: what kind of pants on head stupid notion would be damage capping something which can rep/be repped?
Sigras
Conglomo
#17 - 2015-09-29 10:45:09 UTC
Leto Aramaus wrote:
I think EVE's fun level suffers for other reasons, such as travel mechanics, and you and the rest of the damage mitigation and logi-nerf crowd are deluding yourselves into thinking N+1 DPS is the problem.

Yeah because the game was way more fun when massive supercap fleets instantly teleported across the galaxy, and only the largest coalitions ever dared committing supercaps to the field.

/sarcasm
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#18 - 2015-09-29 10:49:30 UTC
I can see the case for damage mitigation on Citadels after all they can't be repped but I see no good reason why damage mitigation should be applied to ships of any class.

Not supported.

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Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#19 - 2015-09-29 12:49:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Bobb Bobbington
No, damage mitigation is a bad idea. You'd have to nerf logi, there'd be no reason to ever bring supercaps because the only fights would be less than like 50 people, and if they bring in anything large they'd just get swamped with people who abuse that how the supercaps's (which would have get less or no damage mitigation or else would be completely invulnerable) friends would be battling the damage mitigation on the opponents while the attacking team was laughing. It'd screw with game balance everywhere and completely change all we know and love as PvP.

They already nerfed projection, which was a good idea, it still allowed for large fleets, but without letting alliances easily take over massive pieces of sov. You don't need to nerf large fleets themselves just because you want more small fleets.

Not supported.

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Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#20 - 2015-09-29 14:38:20 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Leto Aramaus wrote:
I think EVE's fun level suffers for other reasons, such as travel mechanics, and you and the rest of the damage mitigation and logi-nerf crowd are deluding yourselves into thinking N+1 DPS is the problem.

Yeah because the game was way more fun when massive supercap fleets instantly teleported across the galaxy, and only the largest coalitions ever dared committing supercaps to the field.

/sarcasm



it was when DD's were AOE
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