Warfare & Tactics

Dear CCP

I Wonder if it would be possible for you to make a detailed analysis of my last 12 months of Pilot or Pilots vs Pilot or Pilots combat in the LowSec regions of New Eden.

What I am looking for is a report (with if possible some sort of graph porn) on how many ships I have lost in PvP when my opponents may or may not have had a fleet bonus from a warfare boosting module. I would like to think that it would be easy to work out by just listing all my losses over the last 12 months and then listing all the opponents listed on said lost mails and then looking to see if any of the opponents was in a fleet, If that fleet had a booster in the same system with an active warfare module at the time of my lost as dated on the lost mail.

Things I also would like to see if is, How many times I have lost ships when I was in a fleet that had a active warfare compared to when I have not had any boosting warfare module active in said fleet.

I Fully understand that the above information will take time to collect and correlate. But I do feel it would make for an interesting case study for metrics on how much or little the wide spread the use warfare links are used in LowSec space.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

Oddsodz

Show us on the doll where the Tengu touched you.

Riiiiiiiight here

I really think cancers like off grid boosting are why we are seeing numbers decline. Yes it will take some short term pain to get rid of the cancer but the long term decline will hopefully end, and even reverse.

BTW I listened to a podcast where ccp fozzie said they are making some headway on the technical issues of off grid boosters. He could not give us a date through.

I often see people complain about off grid boosters. Sadly the vast majority of these people are simply picking engagements that they would lose even if the opponent was not using warfare links. Not saying that's the case here but always something to keep in mind.

How many people have access to capital ships, and how many people have the ability to go and PvP and then end up on the wrong side of OGBs?

There are certain individuals who find capital changes oppressive, but I somehow doubt that all the new, relatively new and some slightly more casual players (casual enough to not bother with alts) find the capital movement changes a factor worth leaving the game for. Because it just does not concern them.

The first most intuitive thing one can do in this game is undock and go pew pew. Not looking forward to going through the headache of getting even a small gang together, managing who flies what ship and all the other relevant roadbumps to setting up a fleet. The simplest thing anyone can do is just grab a ship and go.

With these things in mind, how in the fudge do you conclude that the introduction of fatigue is a large driver for players choosing not to stay? Are all the cry posts (what, 10 of them or something?) such a convincing sample? I mean sure it can be argued this way for links too, but far more people are affected on far more occasions by not having a flat out stat boost that introduce dramatic consequences to combat, as opposed to being affected by fatigue, which is remote.

Furthermore, you can't ignore the people who don't post on the forums. It is only logical to believe that there are simply far fewer people with access to anything fatigue-involved. Bloody mind boggling when people claim fatigue is killing the game. The reality is that fatigue is a hit to an investment - it affects people who have put the time to get carriers/jumpfreighters/titans/blops/etc. It doesn't stop them from playing. It is upsetting, I can sympathise with that, but it is hardly game breaking.

Links on the other hand introduce a barrier. You can argue that it doesn't stop anyone from playing, and refering to all the "2-week rifter tackling" youtube videos all you want. On the face of it, it is simply not convincing for the majority to look at ships going 6k m/s at a minimum, tackling from ranges that a majority of weapons cannot project to, and say "yeah, I'd like to participate in this form of entertainment. This is reasonable. I am also enthusiastic about bringing a niche module, fitted to a niche ship, to play a niche gameplay pillar (scanning) to counter what my enemy is doing. This is going to be fun".

Nope, get real.

I didn't say or imply that OGB is the main reason why people leave. I said Jump-Fatigue is trivial in comparison to OGB because it affects so few people directly. That it's the culprit for fewer capital fights - maybe. Except there are capital fights happening daily.

Also capital fights are only arguably the main focus of the EVE publications - the thrill is just as much, if not more, about the scale and the number of people involved and the real money equivalent of the stuff destroyed that catches the attention. To claim that everyone who hears about EVE from this media ends up looking forward to a year long train to participate in those fights in those same big ships is unreasonably positive of the players' interest and attention time span.

Meanwhile, how is any of this related to the relatively fast skilling into a Jump Freighter? Does everyone rush to play EVE so that they could hop into a Jump Freighter "rather quickly" and participate in these big fights with their freighters?

So whilst the 4-7 frig fight in Kedama isn't what most players will hear about, it's what a majority will participate in with an out-of-the-box or slightly higher-SP character.

Wanting an environment that is healthy to actually play in moment-to-moment, instead of a game where everyone waits to get pinged for the spontaneous capital fight, is bad? I suppose opinions are just that - opinions.

Her post was not mindless or drivel. But your posting this is a big reason why people consider eve -o forums to be a waste of time.



A large percent of the people in high sec are alts of people who pvp in low sec. If the low sec pvper stops those alts in high sec disappear.


I'm not sure what game you are playing but it is not that uncommon to see more off grid tengus on dscan than actual combat ships. Look at the killboards of those using links and you will see how many people are effected by links.

There are several reasons that ogb drive players away. Not only is it god mode but it tends to be a very disheartening kill. It used to be that by and large the kiting ship had about a 14k cushion from the brawling ship. This lead to some very fun play where the brawling ship might have a shot at slingshoting the kiting ship even if the brawler only had an ab. Links broke that very fundamental game play. With links the kiting ship has such a huge cushion it can fly in, there is simply no hope for a brawling ship.

You will just die this horrible slow death. Even if you have an active tank that can take the trickle of damage you can't go anywhere. Its just a matter of who will bring in friends or who has more time to waste. Before links brawlers would get caught and killed by kiters but there was always some hope of trying to get a slingshot so an actual struggle happened. Now there is no fight at all, might as well eject.

This was enough for me and plenty of other people to decide to watch more tv with their spouse instead of logging in. What that meant is not only was I no longer there but people who remained there would no longer get fights with me. And I would no longer get fights with others who are more inclined to do something else with their free time other than get caught by some lame ship that is horrendously overpowered. This tends to snowball and before you know it not only is low sec becoming empty but you also don't see those alts logging into high sec either. Because the whole point of the high sec alt was to support the low sec pvp which is not happening for that person anymore.





Its funny you picked jump freighters as an example of capitol ships. Whether people get into eve to fly the big ships might depend on their age. I think allot more people sub because they like the small scale pvp rather than the tidi blob pvp. But again this is hard to say for sure. Again I can just speak for myself and say I would certainly be more likely to pvp if ogb was fixed. When we consider the trickle down chilling effect this has on people going to low sec to do solo or micro gang pvp it might even be one of the main reasons eve is doing so poorly now.

And its not just people who don't use ogb. Even people who use those alts might eventually figure out what a tool they have become. They pay to have an extra account so they can bring that ogb crutch with them everywhere they go. Even they likely will decide the game isn't so fun anymore and they might also decide they would rather watch tv with their spouse.

They are obviously a horrible mechanic. If you doubt it go to some other mmo game that doesn't have something like this. And recomend that if people pay for an extra account they should get lots of extra powers. See what the reaction is.

Yet i literally dont know a single person that has quit or taken a break because of boosts. I dont even know anyone who viewed boosts as a contributing factor to their inactivity.

It think i covered that. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt, one account is just an anecdote.