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Hey CCP; Why are you re-releasing "uniques" ? Gold Magnate / Silver
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Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#121 - 2015-09-28 04:45:09 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Also how does one "rebalance" a ship that supposedly has never been in game?


The original Gold Magnate was in the game. Then it got blowed up.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2015-09-28 04:47:00 UTC
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Also how does one "rebalance" a ship that supposedly has never been in game?


The original Gold Magnate was in the game. Then it got blowed up.

According to the person I replied to the one being detailed in the blog is not and has not been in game.

Hence the question.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#123 - 2015-09-28 04:48:19 UTC
There was only ever one Gold Magnate, it was big news when it was asploded.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#124 - 2015-09-28 04:48:45 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Also how does one "rebalance" a ship that supposedly has never been in game?


The original Gold Magnate was in the game. Then it got blowed up.

According to the person I replied to the one being detailed in the blog is not and has not been in game.

Hence the question.


Right, that would be the new one with the new stats.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2015-09-28 04:59:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
Right, that would be the new one with the new stats.
It would actually make it the same item with new stats, as in the more relevant case of remaining silver magnates. There won't be old and new silver magnates, there will just be silver magnates with updates stats and more of them.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#126 - 2015-09-28 06:56:01 UTC
Glathull wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Glathull wrote:
So it's a totally different ship. Based on that dev blog.

I fail to see the problem.

I'm curious, where did you get that impression from the blog?



I got it from the part where they said the attributes have been changed.

These have been rebalanced. They are not the same whined-about-Cee-U-Next-Tuesday ships that are causing so much butthurt. They are different ships with different attributes and similar names. Extremely similar names.


If something is RE balanced and gets CHANGED stats then that proves that it's not new. And your "nono, the names are just ever so slightly the same" is hilarious. Your whole logic is hilarious, because it's terrible logic.
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#127 - 2015-09-28 10:09:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tappits
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
Does seem pretty unfair to anyone who has spent 100+ bil (2 tril in in some cases) on a limited issue ship if CCP is just going to change their minds and release more on a whim.


O no.. it might be unfair to some one... in eve... I hope they some day crash the unique's market as the tears will be glorious.
I am sorry but i don't have any empathy for the trillionaires of eve.

Yer so what if some dev in 2005 said they will never make new ones. This is 2015 now and the Game has moved on the devs have moved on and the players have moved on.
Most people that play the game now did not even know what eve was when the first Gold Magnate was made and lost… most people don’t care.
The only people who do care are the people that are speculating on the prices of these ships going up. No one sees them, no one uses them (the prizes from last years AT have probably been used more than all the old unique’s ever have over the past 12 years) none of these ships have any impact on the game other than old money speculation. So like 1-2 people might not be able to get a return on their investment for 5 more years if they have got a Silver Magnate over the last 2 years as the price will need time to go back up after the new ones are given out.. o well.

CCP Seagull Said when she took on the job the old rules are gone, this is a new eve with new rules and things that were said would never change are now on the table to be changed.
TinkerHell
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#128 - 2015-09-28 10:29:22 UTC
Tappits wrote:
O no.. it might be unfair to some one... in eve... I hope they some day crash the unique's market as the tears will be glorious.
I am sorry but i don't have any empathy for the trillionaires of eve.


Why? What have we done?

Last i checked we are not dodging taxes etc. If anything it shows that we actually play the game and have a love for the game.

But yea, we are rich so screw us over?

Divine Entervention wrote:
Who cares what the entitled trillionaires of EvE think, they're huge reasons the game sucks.


Same to you. Why are we a huge reason the game sucks? What have i done to make this game worse other than play it and make successfully make isk?

What has Chribba done to make this game suck? Or Entity? Or Bluemelon?

Please tell me.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#129 - 2015-09-28 10:34:13 UTC
Tappits wrote:
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
Does seem pretty unfair to anyone who has spent 100+ bil (2 tril in in some cases) on a limited issue ship if CCP is just going to change their minds and release more on a whim.


O no.. it might be unfair to some one... in eve... I hope they some day crash the unique's market as the tears will be glorious.
I am sorry but i don't have any empathy for the trillionaires of eve.



Sooo, you're jealous then.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#130 - 2015-09-28 10:58:32 UTC
TinkerHell wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Who cares what the entitled trillionaires of EvE think, they're huge reasons the game sucks.


Same to you. Why are we a huge reason the game sucks? What have i done to make this game worse other than play it and make successfully make isk?

What has Chribba done to make this game suck? Or Entity? Or Bluemelon?

Please tell me.

I've clearly made his path to scamming supers a bit harder Lol

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#131 - 2015-09-28 11:01:30 UTC
TinkerHell wrote:
If anything it shows that we actually play the game and have a love for the game.

But yea, we are rich so screw us over?


Why is putting more in the system screwing you over?
If someone buys a “limited issue special” You paid what you deemed to be a reasonable price at the time to own that ship… well sometimes the cost of things goes down as well as up. Yer so what you paid 200bill for something.. if someone can get it for 150 now it does not make yours worth 50 less unless the only resign you got it in the first place was to make money off it. You still get the use of the thing for as long as you like (which is forever as no one ever uses them)
TinkerHell
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#132 - 2015-09-28 11:30:58 UTC
Tappits wrote:
TinkerHell wrote:
If anything it shows that we actually play the game and have a love for the game.

But yea, we are rich so screw us over?


Why is putting more in the system screwing you over?
If someone buys a “limited issue special” You paid what you deemed to be a reasonable price at the time to own that ship… well sometimes the cost of things goes down as well as up. Yer so what you paid 200bill for something.. if someone can get it for 150 now it does not make yours worth 50 less unless the only resign you got it in the first place was to make money off it. You still get the use of the thing for as long as you like (which is forever as no one ever uses them)


I use AT ships all the time thanks. I wouild of used the silver magnate if it was actually any good as well.

The silver magnate was the rarest ship i could collect except the several trillion isk BS. I spent thousands of hours getting the isk together to get this ship, it was the pinnacle of my collection. One side of this game that i enjoy is collecting rare ships. That ship is no longer rare, i feel like i have wasted my time and could of just waited and bought one for 20b. How is that not screwing me over? There are 6 silver magnates i know about now. Which is being increasing to 98. Thats over 16 times as many of this 'rare' ship being added to the game.

How would all the titan owners like it if CCP decided to hand out 16,000-32,000 Titans to people for entering a tournament? Its the same thing in terms of devaluing their ship, on a lesser scale as it only screws over a few people this time. Which you are all happy about because you all hate the rich trillionaires for some unknown reason.

I can tell you for a fact i will no longer be investing into any rare ships anymore as i will never know if CCP will just add more into the game whenever they feel like it. I can predict market trends, i cant predict random storyline events giving out prizes.

Yes, it does make my silver magnate worth less. I will no longer be able to undock knowing that i cant replace the ship, if it dies ill just shrug and think well i can just replace that for 20b. So its value is 20b.
Arec Bardwin
#133 - 2015-09-28 11:43:44 UTC
Traders risk losing huge amounts of isk all the time if CCP change the game in any way, why should they take special care for your investment?
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#134 - 2015-09-28 11:50:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tappits
TinkerHell wrote:
I use AT ships all the time thanks. I wouild of used the silver magnate if it was actually any good as well.

The silver magnate was the rarest ship i could collect except the several trillion isk BS. I spent thousands of hours getting the isk together to get this ship, it was the pinnacle of my collection. One side of this game that i enjoy is collecting rare ships. That ship is no longer rare, i feel like i have wasted my time and could of just waited and bought one for 20b. How is that not screwing me over? There are 6 silver magnates i know about now. Which is being increasing to 98. Thats over 16 times as many of this 'rare' ship being added to the game.

How would all the titan owners like it if CCP decided to hand out 16,000-32,000 Titans to people for entering a tournament? Its the same thing in terms of devaluing their ship, on a lesser scale as it only screws over a few people this time. Which you are all happy about because you all hate the rich trillionaires for some unknown reason.

I can tell you for a fact i will no longer be investing into any rare ships anymore as i will never know if CCP will just add more into the game whenever they feel like it. I can predict market trends, i cant predict random storyline events giving out prizes.

Yes, it does make my silver magnate worth less. I will no longer be able to undock knowing that i cant replace the ship, if it dies ill just shrug and think well i can just replace that for 20b. So its value is 20b.


You could say the same thing as the people that got Revenant’s early on.. There now worth less than 1/3 what some of the early people paid for them. Does that devalue their time with them? Or is that the cost of having something “limited” and been able to say “I was the first to get a killmail with one” “I was the first to use them in a fleet” “I was the first to lose one” “I have the oldest one”
If my titan suddenly cost half as much and there’s 10x more of them than when I got it (there is more than 10x more of them now than when I got it) I would not be like o no I just lost X amount I would be like well I have had the use of X for Y years and I have had fun with it nbd.

TinkerHell wrote:
I can tell you for a fact i will no longer be investing into any rare ships anymore


That is fine... as there will be many more to take your place now the price will come down (prob not that much) to be an achievable goal for people just like it was for you.

TinkerHell wrote:
I use AT ships all the time thanks. I wouild of used the silver magnate if it was actually any good as well.


Good for you, And maybe people will maybe use the new silver magnate's as they will not be stuck with 2003 stats anymore. you can thank CCP for making your useless ship useful again.


Arec Bardwin wrote:
Traders risk losing huge amounts of isk all the time if CCP change the game in any way, why should they take special care for your investment?


Pritty much this.
Salvos Rhoska
#135 - 2015-09-28 12:43:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
In principle, I agree its lazy. Surely its not that much of an effort/expense to introduce a new SKIN.
Pink would be (unfortunately) popular, for example. Pink Magnate (especially with a Unicorn decal) would be the most desired and simultaneously reviled hull to ever have existed. Some might pay trillions or lose Titans en masse just so as to see this abomination wiped from the face of EVE.

On the otherhand, perhaps its deliberate, so as to deflate the latent wealth/assets of trillionaires, perhaps so they will spend it elsewhere rather than trading their expensive ship pixels amongst themselves in a kind of weird insular elite economic "meta" that does absolutely zero for the rest of the game or its economy.

Anyways, 99.9% of EVE doesnt give a ****.

For us, the tears alone are worth it.
Sorry.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Felo Maxun
Felmax Trade Inc
#136 - 2015-09-28 12:50:36 UTC
Tappits wrote:


Arec Bardwin wrote:
Traders risk losing huge amounts of isk all the time if CCP change the game in any way, why should they take special care for your investment?


Pritty much this.


For some the problem is the isk, for the rest the issue is the history. There is no need to soil the history of these ships, the biggest strength of eve is that when its gone, its gone. If something is released on the pretense that that they are a unique collection, they they should stay that way. Players can remember them being destroyed (or returned to the state), they can aspire to own a piece of that history, some would even go balls to the wall and pvp with these ships. It doesn't matter so long as the history of the ships is written and preserved.

The cost of man hours to skin a different Amarrian frigate vs the loss of eve history and the disregard of the core principle of once its gone its gone .......

That isn't an argument we should be having, preserve the history of eve ships!
TinkerHell
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#137 - 2015-09-28 13:03:15 UTC
Tappits wrote:
You could say the same thing as the people that got Revenant’s early on.. There now worth less than 1/3 what some of the early people paid for them. Does that devalue their time with them? Or is that the cost of having something “limited” and been able to say “I was the first to get a killmail with one” “I was the first to use them in a fleet” “I was the first to lose one” “I have the oldest one”
If my titan suddenly cost half as much and there’s 10x more of them than when I got it (there is more than 10x more of them now than when I got it) I would not be like o no I just lost X amount I would be like well I have had the use of X for Y years and I have had fun with it nbd.


The difference being everyone knew clearly that there was going to be more Revenants added to the game as the bpc will always continue dropping. No one knew that the silver magnate was going to be added to the game again, especially as CCP has already stated they will not add them to the game, but are now doing so. These things add value to the ships. The people bought the Revenants at higher prices to be the first, i didnt buy the silver magnate at its price to be the first, i bought it for its rarity. Its rarity secured by the fact they said they would not release more.

Tappits wrote:
That is fine... as there will be many more to take your place now the price will come down (prob not that much) to be an achievable goal for people just like it was for you. .


You dont think its price will come down much? I had an offer for 880b on my magnate, now i cant even get an offer of 100b. Its value will be around 20b if you look at the price of the ishukone scorps before they became skins.

Tappits wrote:
Good for you, And maybe people will maybe use the new silver magnate's as they will not be stuck with 2003 stats anymore. you can thank CCP for making your useless ship useful again.


So i only need to lose 860b of value for CCP to buff a ship. That sounds like a great deal.

Arec Bardwin wrote:
Traders risk losing huge amounts of isk all the time if CCP change the game in any way, why should they take special care for your investment?


Traders can predict and see market trends from dev blogs, test server etc. How was i meant to predict this? Something that they said they would not add to the game again. Something that is meant to be a part of the history of Eve.
Salvos Rhoska
#138 - 2015-09-28 13:07:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Felo Maxun wrote:
That isn't an argument we should be having, preserve the history of eve ships!


History is not something that can be lost.

What was and happened before, was and happened before.
Nothing can change that, nor diminish that.

Even if people forget what happened, it still happened.
Even though history may be presented subjectively in different ways, the historical facts remain indelible.

Re-issuing a ship, does not change that OP lost the only original.

Its recorded in the archives of EVE, even though that ship no longer exists, and long after OP/its owner also no longer exists.

That the ship would be re-issued, does not change that.

History is not lost, as long as there are those who remember it, and the records of what occured.
Even if those are elements are lost, history remains a matter of fact, which has resulted in the present and informs the future. As such, it always remains with us, as who we are, where we came from, and who we will become.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#139 - 2015-09-28 13:34:11 UTC
IIRC the original Gold Magnate was also a prize for winning the previous Amarr Championship. So makes sense to me.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#140 - 2015-09-28 13:36:45 UTC
Felo Maxun wrote:
Tappits wrote:


Arec Bardwin wrote:
Traders risk losing huge amounts of isk all the time if CCP change the game in any way, why should they take special care for your investment?


Pritty much this.


For some the problem is the isk, for the rest the issue is the history. There is no need to soil the history of these ships, the biggest strength of eve is that when its gone, its gone. If something is released on the pretense that that they are a unique collection, they they should stay that way. Players can remember them being destroyed (or returned to the state), they can aspire to own a piece of that history, some would even go balls to the wall and pvp with these ships. It doesn't matter so long as the history of the ships is written and preserved.

The cost of man hours to skin a different Amarrian frigate vs the loss of eve history and the disregard of the core principle of once its gone its gone .......

That isn't an argument we should be having, preserve the history of eve ships!




EVE does not lose any history with a re-releases of that ship. If anything, it gets more attached to it. A new tournament to get a new emperor in which the amarr empire will gift the winning participant with a ship issued specifically designed as a prize for such event. The deep history of EVE just keeps flowing.

The people who don't care still don't care,

The people for who the history is important gets a new chapter added to the story.

The people who invested in rare space pixels lose value on an investment just like it can happen with any investment in EVE.