EVE General Discussion

I agree.

And nobody does begrudge it.

Rather it is being suggested and put forth, that there are even greater benefits from adding the 350k to existing characters, as well as new characters created after that date.

There is zero harm in it, to anyone.
Infact it is only beneficial to everyone.
Furthermore it will help prompt back "lost" players, who have simply forgotten that "wait a minute, I got an EVE account too! ill check back in cos I really loved this game. and ive got 350k sp to assign!", especially now in an PCU slump and where there isnt much hype to be expected in the immediate future to help return their attention, and where content updates are more frequent and gradual, rather than occasional "big" updates.

Its an excellent opportunity to hit several birds with one stone, without harming anyone.

I assume there's a good reason: maybe it would create too much workload, or maybe they don't want to set a precedent, I don't know but this is a positive change even if it's not universal.

I agree entirely that it is a good change (on NPE part).

I sympathise completely with the NPE, being a relatively new player myself, and also having participated in Rookie chat and many hours of new player streaming, especialy in the last 3 months, where I have also contributed help.

Nobody is disputing this change to NPE, and frankly its been a long time coming.

It is additionally to that, not deductive from that, the arguments for making it a universal one off 350k boost to characters already existing, are being made.

This is an excellent opportunity, particularly in a time of reduced PCU, to reinvigorate not just the future new players, but the community overall.

This is because the introduction of the 350k as universal does not harm anyone. Nobody loses. Everyone benefits.
Its like in the real world, if you could suddenly increase EVERYONES potential for greatness, specialisation/diversfication, and their commensurate opportunities, without it costing anything, and without it harming anyone.

This should be taken advantage of. Such an opportunity is rare.

Consider the following:
-This boost will currently only affect future characters. These do NOT YET EVEN EXIST.
Many of the clients who would make them in future do NOT YET EVEN KNOW EVE EXISTS.
-50k vs 400k SP is not something these future clients even understand yet. But it will help retain them, once they do.
That is a very good thing.

But if you introduce the 350k boost as universal:
-You will incentivise ALL current characters to diversify/specialise with the windfall, and thereby provide more player content 0/potential and customer satisfaction.
- Will help enormously to incentivise lost players to return, as well as remind them that EVE is a game still here for them to return to from their sabbatical.
-This in addition, and in no way detracting from, the NPE benefit as above.

All these benefits, for everyone, at NO COST and at NO HARM.

Its a no brainer. The benefits of a universal sp boost far outweigh, and also include integrally the benefits of to NPE, the current NPE exclusive sp boost.

This rare opportunity should not be thrown away.

The precedent issue is largely moot:
-Adding rote SP basis to new characters, is a new precedent, that anyways categorically breaches previous precedebnt. Furthermore, its unlikely to happen again, because this one does what is neccessary already for its purposes.
-As to the precedent of associating a new character SP boost with a universal one, I dont see a problen with that. There is more equity and equality in a precedence of applying the boost universally, in perpetuity, in such a way which benefits everyone, rather than it only benefiting characters created within a certain time frame. Equity and equality can be served universally in this case, without it harming nor detracting anyone. That, in and of ifself is unprecedented, and a fantastic opportunity that should not be wasted.
-The issue of precedence fails anyways, because CCP has complete autonomy, and are not beholden to any of them.

Making the SP boost universal harms no one.
Not new players, not older, not CCP.

Rather there is an opportunity here for everyone to benefit, new characters, older characters, and CCP, as the 350k carrot can be extended not only to new players, but everyone else (whether they currently are in the game or not), to help retain the, return them to the game, and for themto diversify/specialise across the board of activities as well as across the board of new/old (thereby providing more content) with ZERO HARM to anyone.

Its perfect.
Make it so.

OP, one thing you should know about Eve.

The vets rather see the game slowly dwindle away to nothing than accept any changes that may attract new players.

They have had it so rough in Eve, you really have to feel sorry for them. Just look at the responses.

Granted, and agreed.

If it its difficult to introduce 350k to the entire base, so that it takes inordinate developer time, then dont do so.

My point being, as you ackowledged, that it would be a good thing, if possible.

If its difficult to implement, then nvm. Id rather that effort was put towards something else, as Im sure most other propnents of a universal 350k inlign with this change, would agree.

But if it can, its a greater net benefit for everyone, rather than just tye current 350k to new characters that actually dont even exist yet.

It's responses like this that shows the real intention behind the people supporting free SP to all players. It is just a simple desire for personal gain.

The statement makes no sense, since the new players are exactly the ones getting the 350k SP buff. So how is it, that by arguing against giving additional SP to everyone, EXCEPT the newly created characters, we are suddenly hurting them?

Yet, we have people (like Salvos) that keeps arguing that "Hey, there is no downside. SP to all!". But by doing that, you completely remove the goal of the change. Since you increase the SP level of the whole server population, the change is basically non-existent, besides a nominal increase of numbers in your skill queue.

This will "hurt" new players, in the sense, that you took away what was supposed to be a buff and an easier start to new players.

Imagine you are 100m from a post and you need to traverse that distance. Someone tells you, that you now get a headstart of 20m, but at the same time they move away the post 20m as well. Even though, you have traveled 20m, you are still 100m from the post. As you can see, getting a headstart made absolutely no difference in the actual matter.

It is supposed to be a very small (and negligible) catch-up mechanic, since you only get skills that you will always train anyways. Since older players already have all these skills trained, how is it fair that you could get an extra free 350k SP towards a Titan, on the expense of a newbie buff?

So I state again, by giving everyone free SP, you actually create a pointless buff to new players. A buff that is supposed to help with fundamental skills, as well as a one week head-start compared to the old starting point.

But then again, the people arguing for a universal SP increase are very poor debaters, that will generally just stick to their initial argument without expanding on it, or giving rational explanations to why their view is superior. So far, the way they have argued their case is by repeating the same points over and over. When that didn't help, instead of giving arguments to the counter-arguments, they proceed to repeat the same point louder (usually using CAPS). When that fails, they will just resolve to claim no counter-arguments exists.

Anyway, at the end of the day. The decision is in the hands of CCP. From what I can see, luckily enough, there does not seem to be any plans to reimbursing SP to all characters.

Hopefully, they will not bend under the pressure of a whining crowd (yes, the "new features" post is also filled with people crying for free SP) and implement it as is currently stated.

SP given ONLY to players created within 2 weeks from Vanguard and onwards.

dude this was a chum bucket whinge thread to begin with, the trolling is the only thing of merit here

If the highlighted part does not imply that CCP wants to give new players a small head-start, then I don't know what in your world would.

They simply want newbies a bit faster through some of the core skills everyone will and have trained. It can be argued, that people who do not have these skills trained yet, but are beyond the 2 week "grace" period. Should just get these skills to the new minimal level. But then again, this is not what you argue...

Giving people who already have these base skills an additional 350k SP, that can be used on anything. Is unfair and unjustified.
It is unfair, since the new characters cannot freely decide the allocation of these 350k points.
It is unjustified, because of the lack of reason to give everyone an additional 350k for free. It is meant as a small buff for new characters, not a give-away to the whole EvE population.

When you give money to charity, do you also give the same amount to your neighbor and random citizens you meet on the street? I mean, it will do no harm... Only benefits! You probably don't, since there would be no point in such an action. Just as there is no point in handing out free SP, based on a buff to new characters.

But sure, I'll leave you guys to your quality posting, unless I see something completely absurd (like the statement, that left me no other choice than to reply and tell the person what nonsense they were spewing). People making nonsensical or absurd arguments cannot be left unchecked.

CCP has already stated that it's to improve the NPE- so I'm failing to see a "problem" here.
What skills are "being removed"? I'm unaware of any skills being removed- only skilpoints being awarded to new players.
What does anyone hope to accomplish with these threads protesting skilpoints being awarded to the new players anyway? Seriously?

I have to agree that anyone protesting giving new players more skillpoints so they have additional choices in getting started in the game is being extremely selfish- but I suppose it's par for the course in what this game has become over the years.

Blame the premise of the game, I suppose. Everyone for themselves, etc.

This would provide a one time reduction in the gap between new players and existing players because both players will be earning SP even after this change.

It is the difference between a level change (think of a step function) with a single step (upwards) and a change in rates (e.g. assuming a flat SP training rate between new and old players of 1850, if new players were then boosted to train a say 1.25*1850 they'd start closing the gap on older players).