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Epic problem with strategic cruisers? EHP vs sustained damage received

Author
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#41 - 2015-09-27 11:40:12 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
It doesn't matter that that's the assumption, again it's just a statement saying that you'll be able to take that amount of damage, at the very least.


His point, if I'm reading right, is that the EHP shown in EVE is worked out in an unrealistic way. Pretend that you have 10k shield with your weakest resist being EM, eve will work out your ehp in shield; then it will check your armor HP and scale that by your armor's lowest resist and then the same for hull. Since your weakest resist in each isn't likely to be the same this means the EHP number in EVE is assuming your enemy is switching ammo for the exact best one per layer of defence, not a realistic assumption.


Things don't always have to be realistic, they need to be comparable though.

A single enemy is indeed less likely to switch ammo ... but against a fleet with diverse damage types, you're going to take damage against your weakest resist too. EFTs default assumption of equal amounts of damage per type is unrealistic too, but it is still useful in comparing several fits / ships.

Just like companies use best case / base assumption / worst case scenarios as a planning tool, EVE shows you the worst case scenario to give you an idea of what your fit can hold up to. That's what Primary This Rifter is saying. The tool is not 100% realistic, but as long as it is accurate and repeatable, it allows you to compare fits and give you a basic idea.

In the same vein your cap is not going to run out exactly as predicted, because you may switch modules on and off during a fight .. or you may get neuted. EFT, by default only gives you the "all modules on" number. It's unrealistic, but useful. Comprende ?

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#42 - 2015-09-27 11:46:17 UTC
Some things are more unrealistic than others.
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#43 - 2015-09-27 12:10:02 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Some things are more unrealistic than others.


agreed.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.

Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#44 - 2015-09-27 12:21:36 UTC
So EPIC.
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#45 - 2015-09-27 13:20:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jill Xelitras
I think this was your fit vs the 6 thrashers:

[Loki, Mr De's Loki 1]
Tracking Enhancer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Warp Disruptor II

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump II
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II

Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Loki Offensive - Turret Concurrence Registry
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Loki Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter

Now a bling Thrasher can do 1600 volley damage or 390 dps with 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II (overheated). That's 9600 volley / 2340 dps for the fleet of 6 Thrashers.

Let's assume your armor has 8700 HP raw and plot the damage done at various resistance percentages.

Thrasher fleet 9600 volley vs 90% resist = 960 raw damage ; 8700:960 = 9.06 volleys to get through.
Thrasher fleet 9600 volley vs 80% resist = 1920 raw damage ; 8700:1920 = 4.53 volleys
Thrasher fleet 9600 volley vs 75% resist = 2400 raw damage ; 8700:2400 = 3.62 volleys

I did this plot, because my fitting tool doesn't give me 90+ resist across all damage types, but from 96 EM to 73 EXPL. It shows me 8700 raw HP for armor. So I went with those stats.

In my opinion, your Loki was a sitting duck and probably died within 30 secs after the first volley hit you. You may have perceived it as 10 seconds.

PS: just to be complete ...

9600 volley vs 60% resist = 3840 raw damage, which largely exceeds the raw HP of shield (for kinetic/explosive) and structure (for all damage types) of the Loki fit above. In other words, 1 volley to get through shields and another 1 to get through structure and 3-4 volleys to get through armor.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.

Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2015-09-27 13:56:07 UTC
Probably didn't switch his hardeners on...
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