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More cpu for Freighters please..

First post
Author
Braden Fanguard
The Order of Omerta
The Celestial Empire
#41 - 2015-09-26 20:28:28 UTC
No, freighters where only just recently eve given fitting slots. They had to give them a role bonus so they could have bulkheads even fit on them. Freighters do not need damage controls. It has been said already in this post that you are unlikely to be ganked in a freighter if you tank it rather than going for max cargo/align time. -1
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2015-09-26 21:13:07 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
I dont understand why its so important to balance shield and armour On a freighter. Why MUST there be an option when it comes to freighters?

Why not just bring armour reps when you're escorting a freighter?



I'd say the question is more why should there be an imbalance?

Taking a provi vs a fenrir. Stick c type nanos on there and you get the following:

Provi/Fenrir

EHP 308.6k / 243.5k
Armor EHP 166.4k / 79.5k

Both have the same carrying capacity.

It is fairly clear which one is more likely to survive with armor logi on field, at least in highsec where the race is against time and EHP actually does make a big difference.

Why the hell would I use a fenrir?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#43 - 2015-09-26 21:20:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Cause its faster?

I do get it though. The difference in shield and armour hp does help the armour freighters for logi.

Edit-and the obi gets a nice kin resist boost.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Helia Tranquilis
Confused Bunnies Inc
#44 - 2015-09-26 22:24:41 UTC
For gods sake, don't give CCP any ideas about freighters... they fill the need of a flying pinata just right, and can be protected enough with effort. Just accept that you always need a webber and you are fine.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2015-09-26 23:25:03 UTC
working as intended..... and proof of if you give a mouse a cookie concept.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2015-09-27 00:49:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
afkalt wrote:



Sheesh. How can so many miss the point. Armor (jump or regular) freights can boost resists, this massively multiplies logi rep power.

Shield CANNOT tank resists. This is silly


With the armor mods you can fit you cannot tank. THAT is the point, oh and armor does not regen on its own. Shield does. So while the gank team is waiting to re-ship and come back for wave 2 the shields will have regenerated. Armor will still be down. Best solution, some shield logi, more armor logi and hope you can hold them for the second wave, but that is a slim hope. If you are pinning your hopes on logistics...well you're ******. Because the bulk of a freighters EHP is in hull. Of course, your shield logi could also fit hull reppers...so could the armor repping guys, so when the gankers are sitting station waiting out timers try to rep the hull back up as well.

Shield tanking a frieghter, even if allowed, will do **** all to stop a gank. The gank team will likely see the logi, so they can just bring more people. Even if they don't and get you into hull, they can bring a second and third wave.

Logi will not save your ass, so long as the bumping ship is capable of bumping.

Spend some ISK and sec status, bone the ******* bumper. Roll Blathering on about logi and shields is just dumb. Or put some hull reppers on your logi and hope you brought enough so that the gankers just give up.

Of course, a scout warning you to dock is way damn more efficient. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#47 - 2015-09-27 00:59:03 UTC
Renfus wrote:
Would it be possible to give freighters more cpu??
Seriously.. they can't even fit a damage control..
Or give them better resists..


They didnt have any fittings, some of us fought a long fight to get what we have, i guess it's CCP's, 'meet them half way" solution or maybe they wanted to try it out partially and perhaps give more slots in the future.

Anyways, im happy with what we have but perhaps that's because before we had nothing.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#48 - 2015-09-27 01:36:27 UTC
I don't think freighters need a buff, but it is pretty hilarious how they're built. What idiotic 200th century ship designers decided to build these things with no modules, weapons, CPU, or drones?

It defies credulity that such ships could exist in New Eden. How is a rookie ship somehow able to fit things these behemoths can't?!

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2015-09-27 01:45:12 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I don't think freighters need a buff, but it is pretty hilarious how they're built. What idiotic 200th century ship designers decided to build these things with no modules, weapons, CPU, or drones?

It defies credulity that such ships could exist in New Eden. How is a rookie ship somehow able to fit things these behemoths can't?!


Heh...now that, is an interesting perspective. However, not sure giving freighters guns or drones will make much difference. And then the next question is why doesn't it carry over to JFs?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#50 - 2015-09-27 02:05:19 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I don't think freighters need a buff, but it is pretty hilarious how they're built. What idiotic 200th century ship designers decided to build these things with no modules, weapons, CPU, or drones?

It defies credulity that such ships could exist in New Eden. How is a rookie ship somehow able to fit things these behemoths can't?!


Heh...now that, is an interesting perspective. However, not sure giving freighters guns or drones will make much difference. And then the next question is why doesn't it carry over to JFs?


It wouldn't make a difference, but maybe it would give the pilots the pscyhological delusion that "I could've done something, I just messed up!" You know, like how they used to pass pikes out to commonfolk during medieval raids. "Hey guys here are some suuuuuuuuppper strong weapons, just aim them at those invading knights, you'll be fine!"

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

Zimmer Jones
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2015-09-27 02:59:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmer Jones
I like the idea of having the bulk of a freighters HP in armor instead of structure, that way a DCII could be mounted with minimal benefit. I would, in fact, adjust the cargo capacity to match giving the freighters 5 or 6 lows. Minimum for a capital ship. Give enough PG and CPU for active resists, but not enough for repairers and drop the freighters max cap. bring cap management into the game.

By dropping the max cargo I mean that it would stay the same with max cargo expanders(might need a cpu reduction bonus on those). This would give a lot more variety in fittings and less reason to ***** and complain(but won't stop the flow of them a bit im sure). Extra lows and armor tank might prod people to the obvious idea that tank is important.

More than one line, wouldn't fit in the usual thread.

TBH i think freighters are awesome atm, they are what they always should have been, and gankees should have learned he basic lessons by now. it has been the same for a rather long time. Some ships really need a toggleable language specific disclaimer read to the player every time they enter a certain shiptype.

Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#52 - 2015-09-27 03:18:22 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I don't think freighters need a buff, but it is pretty hilarious how they're built. What idiotic 200th century ship designers decided to build these things with no modules, weapons, CPU, or drones?

It defies credulity that such ships could exist in New Eden. How is a rookie ship somehow able to fit things these behemoths can't?!


Heh...now that, is an interesting perspective. However, not sure giving freighters guns or drones will make much difference. And then the next question is why doesn't it carry over to JFs?


It wouldn't make a difference, but maybe it would give the pilots the pscyhological delusion that "I could've done something, I just messed up!" You know, like how they used to pass pikes out to commonfolk during medieval raids. "Hey guys here are some suuuuuuuuppper strong weapons, just aim them at those invading knights, you'll be fine!"


That's pretty much the same argument that eventually was used to justify the current state of freighters. I'll reiterate, in general they were better off beforehand, and only the Goon CSM saved their bacon from being saddled with rigs.

It's long past time to leave well enough alone.

Furthermore, pikes were highly effective weapons, not just jokes. When used properly, by a disciplined formation anyway. Peasants were typically not used in many medieval battles, and typically surrendered outright when faced with actual enemy troops. But then, not having to fight their own battles was the basic point of the feudal system anyway.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#53 - 2015-09-27 03:44:22 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I don't think freighters need a buff, but it is pretty hilarious how they're built. What idiotic 200th century ship designers decided to build these things with no modules, weapons, CPU, or drones?

It defies credulity that such ships could exist in New Eden. How is a rookie ship somehow able to fit things these behemoths can't?!


Heh...now that, is an interesting perspective. However, not sure giving freighters guns or drones will make much difference. And then the next question is why doesn't it carry over to JFs?


It wouldn't make a difference, but maybe it would give the pilots the pscyhological delusion that "I could've done something, I just messed up!" You know, like how they used to pass pikes out to commonfolk during medieval raids. "Hey guys here are some suuuuuuuuppper strong weapons, just aim them at those invading knights, you'll be fine!"


That's pretty much the same argument that eventually was used to justify the current state of freighters. I'll reiterate, in general they were better off beforehand, and only the Goon CSM saved their bacon from being saddled with rigs.

It's long past time to leave well enough alone.

Furthermore, pikes were highly effective weapons, not just jokes. When used properly, by a disciplined formation anyway. Peasants were typically not used in many medieval battles, and typically surrendered outright when faced with actual enemy troops. But then, not having to fight their own battles was the basic point of the feudal system anyway.


Given that a scout +1 or 2 systems will solve 99.9% of a freighter's problems, hard to argue with Kaarous. Heck, docking up your freighter, getting into a noob ship, and scouting yourself would go along ways towards solving the issues of ganking. If they don't have a bumper ready to go, chances are you'll get through just fine.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Yockerbow
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2015-09-27 05:04:06 UTC
Why are people talking about logi rep power here? If you've got someone/an alt moving with you, they should be webbing you instead of repping, will save you much more effectively.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#55 - 2015-09-27 15:54:52 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I don't think freighters need a buff, but it is pretty hilarious how they're built. What idiotic 200th century ship designers decided to build these things with no modules, weapons, CPU, or drones?

It defies credulity that such ships could exist in New Eden. How is a rookie ship somehow able to fit things these behemoths can't?!


Did you just call CCP idiotic? Roll

Nah, I'm kidding, but you do bring up a good point. Even commercial freighters in WW2 often had anti-air (though, admittedly, such weapons were likely useless against their chief nemesis: U-boats). You're right that it doesn't make any damn sense that a freighter can't utilize the very same tech that some lowly frigate can, or that while it can carry several packed up battleships it has no room for even a single scout drone. That said, is that not what the rebalance freighters and JF's received does to some extent? To remove that irrationality that they couldn't fit a single module just because that's how they have always been. Even then, CCP had to draw back many of the critical stats on them for something that has a higher priority in a video game than realism or believably: balance.

Realistically, freighters in Eve should never have to fear attacks in High Sec, what with tank and CONCORD and protective fleets rendering such criminal action mute. Hell, realistically the various host Empire Navies even would be escorting these things around themselves. And CONCORD wouldn't be a mere punishment, but an actual police force meant to prevent criminal actions. But, from a game standpoint, that kind of steps on the notion that even in High Sec you're at risk from other players no matter what you fly or that you are, in fact, in High Sec. Their is no "safe zone". It is a game, which means sometimes realism and even rationality has to take a backseat to things like balance and limited technical design.

Not trying to dissagree with you at least on the notion that's freighters currently and have always been odd-balls, but you're arguing realism at the cost of balance, where as it needs to be the other way around.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2015-09-27 18:04:59 UTC
When CCP first thought of making changes to JFs and freighters their solution was not quite what many freighter pilots thought it would be. They did not just add slots and say, "There, done." They nerfed the tank and cargo capacity then said, "There, done."

Many thought it was great. Slap on cargo expanders and now you got a cargo hold over 1,000,000 m3. Yay...and they made ganking easier and possibly more profitable.

People should be careful what they wish for. CCP quite clearly sees HS ganking as part of the game. Maybe you'll get that DC someday, but don't be surprised if they change the base tank on freighters and JFs as a result.

The OP is a thinly veiled attempt to buff his playstyle while nerfing those of others. Maybe that needs to be done, but there has been no attempt to justify such a buff and indirect nerf.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Aden Ordinii
Mars-Alpha Works
#57 - 2015-09-27 19:50:19 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I don't think freighters need a buff, but it is pretty hilarious how they're built. What idiotic 200th century ship designers decided to build these things with no modules, weapons, CPU, or drones?

It defies credulity that such ships could exist in New Eden. How is a rookie ship somehow able to fit things these behemoths can't?!


Heh...now that, is an interesting perspective. However, not sure giving freighters guns or drones will make much difference. And then the next question is why doesn't it carry over to JFs?


It wouldn't make a difference, but maybe it would give the pilots the pscyhological delusion that "I could've done something, I just messed up!" You know, like how they used to pass pikes out to commonfolk during medieval raids. "Hey guys here are some suuuuuuuuppper strong weapons, just aim them at those invading knights, you'll be fine!"



Chance just to inform you...those weapons you ridiculed, workd...trust me and ask the mighty House of Burgundy how it went against primitiv weapons...

In the end...putting more tank on freighters wont work anyway, they will go down if someone wants to see them sink. It may deter some small driveby ganks or maybe hyperdunking( or not) but not the big boys. In anycase if you put 30,40 or 60 Bn in a hold, you are frackd
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