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Vanguard Skill Point Changes

First post First post
Author
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2015-09-26 06:50:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny Riko
Teckos Pech wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Tippia wrote:
As an '07 player, I've been given somewhere in the region of 7M SP for free — if a new player gets 350k more from the start (that are put into sensible skills), then booo hoooo. Lol


…I'll suppose I'll take those free SP as compensation for not having skilled Tippia for a year because I ran out of interesting skills to train.


A Year?? You should've trained all Supers or Titans.........just in case CCP actually makes them useful.


Forget it, it's a Tippia post they often lack coherency or logic. For example Tippia is going on about how handing out 350,000 to new players who are 6 months or a year old is a devastating precedent, but somehow Tippia got 7 million SP for "free" and that's okay nor setting a precedent.


I'm yet to see a post by tippia with logic. Arguing with him is like bashing your head against a wall repeatedly.

The fact that his argument revolves around him being a older player and 350k being nothing to him shows how detached he actually is from reality.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.

Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#202 - 2015-09-26 11:41:52 UTC
lol still going.

look on the bright side though, if/when you need cyno/cloaky alts you'll save at least 20 hrs on each by starting with CPU management on IV.

forums.  serious business.

Corvois
Sentinel Development Studio
#203 - 2015-09-26 12:17:37 UTC
The ferret is from the sub family Mustelinae, one of the more diverse groups within order Carnivora. Weasles are closer to otters than other members of the same subfamily (Klaus-Peter Koepfli et al, 2008. http://synapsida.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/weasels-in-stone-mustelid-evolution.html).

Oh and why is no one demanding that CCP remove skill points from all characters in the game whenever they dropped the number of skill points for starting players? After all it is only fair and there is a principle at stake right?

On a more serious note, Glathull had a brilliant point from before actually, that seems to have been ignored.

Glathull wrote:
I think the argument about X number of skill points is completely beside the point. The intent wasn't to hand out some specific and arbitrary number of points to new players. The intent was to give new players a wider array of options starting out. Instead of thinking of it as 350,000 skill points to do what they want with, think of it as level 3 of gunnery or something.

Let's pretend that you already have gunnery to 3. What do you want CCP to do? Give you gunnery lvl 3 again? It's no use to you. You've already got it. If you've been training for more than a week, you've made your decisions and the skill ranks being handed out to new players is equivalent of what you spent your first week on.


So perhaps everyone would be happier if CCP simply ensured everyone had their support skills trained to at least lvl 3? This would truly benefit new players without being a stealth buff to older players.

After all, this is about principle right?
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#204 - 2015-09-26 12:27:28 UTC
I'd like 350k SP.

Cutting out a newbies first week of obligatory skill training does not change the fact I spent that week myself getting those SP the hard way, with the limitations on hand and I still stuck with it. Giving 350k SP is a pretty token gesture to your existing playerbase who already support you.

If they don't, then so be it, but I will still point out that I did things the hard way too.
Corvois
Sentinel Development Studio
#205 - 2015-09-26 12:32:13 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
I'd like 350k SP.

Cutting out a newbies first week of obligatory skill training does not change the fact I spent that week myself getting those SP the hard way, with the limitations on hand and I still stuck with it. Giving 350k SP is a pretty token gesture to your existing playerbase who already support you.

If they don't, then so be it, but I will still point out that I did things the hard way too.


And I want those skill points back that I missed out on before there was a proper skill queue. Among other things.

There has to be a line, otherwise this becomes insane.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#206 - 2015-09-26 12:33:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Val'Dore
I want the skill points from my old mains.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#207 - 2015-09-26 14:09:39 UTC
Stop being so damn greedy.

We won't be making it much easier for new players by giving them that extra 350k worth of SP if everyone gets a free unallocated 350k as well, that doesn't narrow the gap at all. Only scoots it over to the right.

Think of the children!!!!

I'd support all accounts receiving these skills to the level new players will be getting if they don't already have them, but come on life-noobs, do the impossible and think about someone other than yourself for once.
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#208 - 2015-09-26 15:29:30 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
nobody tell him about the 2013 battlecruiser racial skill change. Big smile




I had BCV and Dessie V before both changes. Oh man, best level V's I ever trained.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.

Zihao
Doomheim
#209 - 2015-09-26 15:30:14 UTC
Corvois wrote:
There has to be a line, otherwise this becomes insane.


My understanding is that several million sp has been disbursed to the community already due to previous skill changes. So this would fall behind that line, wherever you want to draw it.
Eternal Bob
Doomheim
#210 - 2015-09-26 19:29:13 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
I'd like 350k SP.

Cutting out a newbies first week of obligatory skill training does not change the fact I spent that week myself getting those SP the hard way, with the limitations on hand and I still stuck with it. Giving 350k SP is a pretty token gesture to your existing playerbase who already support you.

If they don't, then so be it, but I will still point out that I did things the hard way too.


Since when has training any skill in EVE been hard? Lol

Biomassing to free a char slot.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#211 - 2015-09-26 19:43:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
A newbro Catsnake rolling around in his 350k New sp!
Zihao
Doomheim
#212 - 2015-09-26 20:13:49 UTC
Thank you sir for keeping this important message visible atop the first page.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#213 - 2015-09-26 21:15:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Daniela Doran wrote:
A Year?? You should've trained all Supers or Titans.........just in case CCP actually makes them useful.

Like I said, I ran out of interesting skills to train. Blink

Teckos Pech wrote:
For example Tippia is going on about how handing out 350,000 to new players who are 6 months or a year old is a devastating precedent, but somehow Tippia got 7 million SP for "free" and that's okay nor setting a precedent.

It was ok because, rather than set a precedent, it followed the dictum of “if you could fly it before, you can fly it after”. I.e. nothing was gained, and nothing was lost (actually, something was lost: you could fit less ability in a clone, but that's so minor that no-one particularly cared).

This as opposed to randomly handing out 350k SP just because someone wanted it, especially since the characters in question didn't lose anything and weren't victims of poor timing. Arbitrary handouts would indeed set a bad precedent.

Johnny Riko wrote:
Arguing with him is like bashing your head against a wall repeatedly.

The fact that his argument revolves around him being a older player and 350k being nothing to him shows how detached he actually is from reality.

Actually, both of those show what an illiterate badposter you are. Your strawman has nothing to do with my argument, and the reason you feel like you're bashing your head against a wall is because not having a coherent argument gets you nowhere — said headbashing parallels the futility of that (complete lack of) effort quite neatly.
Sylveria Relden
#214 - 2015-09-26 21:25:16 UTC
*shrugs* the amount of skillpoints given to the newer players really doesn't mean much for older players- but I'd say that the simplest way to even it out would be just give everyone the same amount across the board when it's implemented, then only to new players afterward.

Personally the amount wouldn't really mean much, but it would resolve a lot of griping, I suppose.

TL;DR If you didn't read the entire post perhaps you're probably ADHD. (seek help)

Zihao
Doomheim
#215 - 2015-09-26 21:38:52 UTC
Arbitrary is a good word. It is arbitrary to not disburse a "trivial," sum of sp when there is no functional way to distinguish between this instance and previous instances of skill modification, all of which were met with proportional sp refunds if not new skills in excess of legacy sp count.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#216 - 2015-09-26 21:48:21 UTC
Zihao wrote:
Arbitrary is a good word. It is arbitrary to not disburse a "trivial," sum of sp when there is no functional way to distinguish between this instance and previous instances of skill modification, all of which were met with proportional sp refunds if not new skills in excess of legacy sp count.

Except previous skill modifications only awarded free SP when a skill was REMOVED.
Key word there, Removed. If a skill got turned to something else, no SP, if it got made less effective, no SP.

The part where you are being confused is CCP's policy of 'if you could fly/use it before you can fly/use it now.
So any time CCP changed the skill requirements for an item, ala the Battlecruiser skill change to racial skills, they made sure people could still fly the same Battlecruisers after the change as before. But those people did not gain any NEW abilities. Bolded to make sure you see the difference between 'More SP' that simply let the person do what they could before, and 'More SP' that gives a person a new ability they couldn't do before the change.
Sylveria Relden
#217 - 2015-09-26 21:50:55 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Zihao wrote:
Arbitrary is a good word. It is arbitrary to not disburse a "trivial," sum of sp when there is no functional way to distinguish between this instance and previous instances of skill modification, all of which were met with proportional sp refunds if not new skills in excess of legacy sp count.

Except previous skill modifications only awarded free SP when a skill was REMOVED.
Key word there, Removed. If a skill got turned to something else, no SP, if it got made less effective, no SP.


Agreed, however, if they applied it across the board equally to everyone- how would it be unfair to anyone moving forward?

TL;DR If you didn't read the entire post perhaps you're probably ADHD. (seek help)

Zihao
Doomheim
#218 - 2015-09-26 21:51:42 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Key word there, Removed. If a skill got turned to something else, no SP, if it got made less effective, no SP.


Can you cite an example?
Sylveria Relden
#219 - 2015-09-26 21:53:39 UTC
Zihao wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Key word there, Removed. If a skill got turned to something else, no SP, if it got made less effective, no SP.


Can you cite an example?


Actually, the base skills for the original implant system are a good example of this.

TL;DR If you didn't read the entire post perhaps you're probably ADHD. (seek help)

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#220 - 2015-09-26 22:10:58 UTC
Zihao wrote:

Can you cite an example?

Drone Interfacing. Turned from 20% to 10%
Jump Drive Calibration, base jump skills became less effective, JDC gave less.
Drones splitting to Light & Medium skills. People kept able to fly exactly what they could before at the same skill, but did not get given any NEW abilities.