These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next page
 

Epic problem with strategic cruisers? EHP vs sustained damage received
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mr De
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2015-09-26 04:13:36 UTC
So this has happened a couple times to me, and I have to figure this out. Loki's specifically are being effected.

[Loki, Daavid Cee's Loki]
1600mm Steel Plates II
Damage Control II
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Armor Explosive Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener

Domination 10MN Afterburner
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Sensor Booster II

650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Loki Offensive - Turret Concurrence Registry
Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier

That fit plugged in has 130 EHP. But, time and time again the last 12 months, Loki's die while sustaining 13k-23k of damage. Case in point, this is not mine, but one i witnessed today.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/49260842/

Why is this happeneing? What am i not understanging? If with resistances, something has 130k of sustainable damage, why is it only registering taking 22k?

I have lost 2 strategic cruisers to this issue. One was brick tanked at 150k ehp and was killed by 6 thrashers that insta poped me with a passive buffer fit. I did petition it, and the other.

If anyone knows what is happeneing, please let me know. And has anyone else had this issue?

Thanks
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-09-26 04:30:51 UTC
Incoming damage is at a rate higher than the armor repairers can compensate for, resulting in not having the time necessary to result in the full amount of anticipated EHP?
The Asteroid
Fuel Blocks for Dante
#3 - 2015-09-26 04:37:20 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Incoming damage is at a rate higher than the armor repairers can compensate for, resulting in not having the time necessary to result in the full amount of anticipated EHP?

That armor repairer must be cloaked.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#4 - 2015-09-26 04:43:49 UTC
any real attempt at a contribution or you done?
Zeratul Stark
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry.
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#5 - 2015-09-26 04:54:06 UTC
I'm pretty sure I know this one but I could be wrong. When you see damage done on that zkillboard kill-report, it does not report the damage done in EHP, just raw damage. For instance, my Loki fit which is very similar to yours, while it has 133k EHP, only has 22.8k raw hitpoints (total of shield, armor, and structure hitpoints). You are only in reality taking ~23,000 damage total, it's just that if there's an even 25% spread each among damage types, taking resists into account you will be able to take 133k damage before it actually burns through your 23k raw hitpoints.
Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#6 - 2015-09-26 04:55:46 UTC
There is a difference between real HP and effective HP, the latter takes resistances into account.

For example, you have armour plates having 20k HP and your resistances are 80% across the board. In order to whittle down your 20k armor I effectively need to do 5 times as much damage, or 100k in damage. If my shots do, theoretically 1000 damage on no resists, each time my shots land they will damage you for 200 due to your resists, and I need to fire 100 of them to kill your tank.

Kill mails show real damage taken, fitting tools like Pyfa, and the EVE fitting screen, show effective health as that is the better measure of how sturdy your ship is.
CptnAmazin
Bee Spankers Inc USA Division
#7 - 2015-09-26 04:59:48 UTC
If you insta popped to 6 thrashers in a "brick tanked" t3, you either dont know what insta popped means or you forgot to fit your ship before you undocked
The Asteroid
Fuel Blocks for Dante
#8 - 2015-09-26 05:00:30 UTC  |  Edited by: The Asteroid
Divine Entervention wrote:
any real attempt at a contribution or you done?

I contributed by pointing out the fact that there is no armor repairer, because apparently reading is not your thing. Idea



CptnAmazin wrote:
If you insta popped to 6 thrashers in a "brick tanked" t3, you either dont know what insta popped means or you forgot to fit your ship before you undocked

He may have never bothered with turning the hardeners and DCU on.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#9 - 2015-09-26 05:19:27 UTC
I suspect that you will find the damage received matches exactly the amount of hitpoints that ship actually had.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Ima GoodGirl
Aria Shi's Wasted ISK
#10 - 2015-09-26 05:36:05 UTC
Oh man. Such fail.

It's not epic EHP problem, it's epic OP problem.
Revenant Kane
Cannibal Empire
BLACKFLAG.
#11 - 2015-09-26 06:47:30 UTC
Well...

As the OP pointed out. Even after 7 years of EVE he is still learning new things.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-09-26 06:55:23 UTC
Revenant Kane wrote:
Well...

As the OP pointed out. Even after 7 years of EVE he is still learning new things.


7 years in highsec does strange things to people.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2015-09-26 07:03:11 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Revenant Kane wrote:
Well...

As the OP pointed out. Even after 7 years of EVE he is still learning new things.


7 years in highsec while within dock range of station and neutral guardian logi does strange things to people.


fixed that for you.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Paranoid Loyd
#14 - 2015-09-26 07:38:41 UTC
Straight

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Valkin Mordirc
#15 - 2015-09-26 08:02:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
Damage on Zkill is Raw Damage, from the Raw HP. EFT gives "EHP" or Effective Hit Points. EHP has resistance values. I don't understand it completely, but that is why the damage is different.

EDIT yeah it raw HP.


02.88k in shields
17.7k in Armor
02.01 in hull

Is 22.59k. Add in the shield regen and boom. 22.69k in damage =3
#DeleteTheWeak
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-09-26 09:41:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=670005

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2015-09-26 11:05:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Raw ehp numbers are misleading. You usually tank only shields, armor or hull. The other numbers do not add much to the effective tank. Some damge types do more to shield, others to armor and with those you have to take alpha in consideration. With high alpha weapons only your real ehp (the system you have tanked, shield or armor) counts, the rest is insignificant.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#18 - 2015-09-26 11:09:18 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
Some ammo types do more damage to shield others to armor


That is incorrect. All that matters is the ammo's damage types and the tank's (whichever type that may be) resists to those.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-09-26 11:11:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Gregor Parud wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:
Some ammo types do more damage to shield others to armor


That is incorrect. All that matters is the ammo's damage types and the tank's (whichever type that may be) resists to those.



Yep, I meant damage type. What is listed as base damage done to shield and armor in the charge description.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#20 - 2015-09-26 11:21:06 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:
Some ammo types do more damage to shield others to armor


That is incorrect. All that matters is the ammo's damage types and the tank's (whichever type that may be) resists to those.



Yep, I meant damage type. What is listed as base damage done to shield and armor in the charge description.


No, that's my point.

"Base shield/armor damage" are bogus stats, not used in any sort of way. They're just a "how this will perform against armor or shield would they have generic resist types". It doesn't affect anything and they should have been removed from the attrib window long ago.

All that matters is resist vs damage type.
123Next page