EVE General Discussion

Why did they remove SP loss and cost on clones after some time and not just have it on release? Why is it that only after a certain date, characters had access to Entosis links, T3Ds, jump fatique, a Bowhead, ..., etc.? Why can I not buy citadels now, it is unfair that someone down the line can just buy it instead of having to buy a normal POS? Why do my feet smell more now, than they did when I just showered?

Did you really think your question through? Things change. You are basically asking, why CCP didn't plan for some change in the future that haven't happened yet. Do you see how absurd that question even is?

And before you reply with "Then they shouldn't do the change" or "They should just give all players 350k SP".

Then you need to consider this change is not meant to benefit all players. It is only meant to benefit newly created characters.


At some point in time, someone will not be a newly created character. Once you are not a "new player" anymore, you are not meant to benefit from this change, because you have had time to make up that difference in SP as argued before in this thread.

I feel like I'm repeating myself.

But that would defeat the goal of the change. If you give out 350k SP to all players, then you benefit ALL players and not just "new players" as the change was meant to benefit.

If they would hand out 350k SP to all players, then it can indeed be argued why implement this change at all, since nothing has changed besides raising the SP amount for all characters in the game. Nothing has been gained or lost. The state of the game does not change, besides the nominal value of your SP sheet.

CCP are not trying to maintain the status quo. They are trying to make a change that will benefit "new players" and them alone.

Yes, it could be argued that there is no "harm" in applying 350k to all characters. But there is also no point in doing so. There would be no purpose to such a change.

As it stands now, there is purpose to the upcoming change. The purpose is to help newly created characters with a small SP boost to the initlal SP pool.

I would have to agree with you here ,This much means nothing to older players but for newer players every sp counts and is very important

Edit - This benefits brand new players and newer players how can it be wrong ? Why exclude newer players and just focus brand new we want to keep and improve the game for both

It does not defeat the goal.
The goal is adding more immediate training options and subsequent functionality to new characters.

Adding 350k to every other existing character does not contradict nor rescind that.
It does not defeat, impair or detract from that goal whatsoever.

What it does do, however, is equitably maintain the SP status quo, and fairness towards characters created before.

There is no rational reason not to make the 350k a universal increase.

See, this is here where you are wrong. Whether you give out SP to only new players or to all players is important to determinate the purpose of the change.

Consider the following scenario: We want to help the poor by giving them $1M. If you only give it to people who already only have 1$, they will benefit from this change. If you however give $1M to everyone on the planet, everything will adjust to the new level of nominal capital in the system. Nothing is changed besides nominal values. The poor will still be as poor, however this time they will have $1M instead of $1.

It is the same that happens here. If you give all players an additional 350k SP, then yes. New players have an additional amount of SP, but so do every other character. Nothing is changed, besides the nominal value of SP points in the game.

This in turn defeats the goal of helping the "new players".

This is the point that has been argued before by others and me. I hope, that this time I have painted a clear enough picture for you to actually see the argument. Instead of claiming its non-existence.

Maekchu:

You are presuming that all players already have $1 million.

They dont.

The point of the 350k boost as posited, is to enable more immediate functionality and options for new players.
It is NOT, absolutely not, to shorten the gap in SP between them and older characters.
Do you understand the difference?

This discussion, overall, is quite concerning.

People seem to have a very subjective understanding of what is equitable and equal.

This is not a matter of ingame competition, which, rightly so, is resolved by its internal conflict by each participant.

This is an externally enforced matter which reflects upon every character in the game in terms of equality and equity.

How do you justify to a player that created his character 1 month ago, and who has been playing the game since then, that he doesnt deserve the same 350k boost as a character created 1 month after him?

Its a pointless inequality.

Whereas applying the 350k to all characters, past present and future, does not rescind nor impair the boost to new players, nor anyone else.

The SP status quo remains constant. All characters remain equidistant, according to theit existing SP and investment.
It harms no one and nothing.

The new characters get their boost, which makes it possible to explore more functionality, earlier.
The older characters get the same, for the same purpose, equitably, retroactively for never having had it themselves when they too were new chatacters.

Everyone is happy, everyone benefits.
NOBODY loses anything.
More content and opportunity is created, and most importantly, NO SYSTEMIC INEQUALITY is introduced.

Furthermore there is no risk of an "SP inflation".
-The amount in question here is small. Far more significant to a new born character than any other.
-A universal application maintains the status quo. No one is dis/advantaged, in equity.
-Everyone playing accrues SP constantly anyways. The entirety of EVEs characters, retroactively and in perpetuity, having 350k+ SP does not harm anything or anyone. Infact it is likely to spur more content/diversification, as well as potentially re-interesting lost players back to the game, not just for the SP, but because its introduction and hype reminds them that "Hey, I have an EVE account! Maybe I should try this game again! Alteast Ive got 350k I can invest!"

I think the argument about X number of skill points is completely beside the point. The intent wasn't to hand out some specific and arbitrary number of points to new players. The intent was to give new players a wider array of options starting out. Instead of thinking of it as 350,000 skill points to do what they want with, think of it as level 3 of gunnery or something.

Let's pretend that you already have gunnery to 3. What do you want CCP to do? Give you gunnery lvl 3 again? It's no use to you. You've already got it. If you've been training for more than a week, you've made your decisions and the skill ranks being handed out to new players is equivalent of what you spent your first week on.

The point here is also not to buff new players with respect to older players. The point is that CCP has looked at things and decided it doesn't make the best sense for new players to spend the first week training the things that almost everyone should spend the first week training. It's the baseline changing. Just like it has in the past.

There was a time in the past when there were learning skills in the game that it was highly advantageous to be Caldari Achura. That advantage was taken away, I think at the same time learning skills were taken away. But the rest of the people who were not Caldari/Achura were not given a reimbursement to make of years of inferior attributes.

The baseline was simply changed. Just like it's changing now. If you equalize this change, people won't stop there. They'll bring the torches and pitchforks to the forum and burn Jita to the ground until every past baseline shift has been reimbursed to all players from the beginning of time.

CCP needs the freedom to make these changes from time to time. They can't reimburse across the board for this without giving up that freedom.

I already specifically answered exactly this.

The PURPOSE of adding 350k to the starting SP of new character, is to increase their access to opportunities and functionality.

The PURPOSE is NOT to shorten thr gap between these new characters, and characters created 1 day earlier, or 10 years earlier.
An exclusive boost ONLY to new characters after a certain date, however, DOES EXACTLY THAT.
The guy who created his character even a single day before the other one, is short 350k, compared to the guy who waited one more day, instead of starting to play right now.

If CCP is going to raise the SP basis, there is no rational reason not to do so throughout all of its characters.
It harms no one and nothing, and instead ensures equality and equity. There is no downside to it, whatsoever.

NOTHING in making the 350k boost universal, contradicts, countermands, rescinds, mitigates, reduces or negates that new characters will STILL have that 350k boost, and STILL have more access to immedate opportunities and functionality, as is the PURPOSE.

EXCLUSIVELY adding 350k to new characters after a certain date, however, is a systemic inequality towards anyone who created their character before that date.

Applying the 350k boost universally creates no problems, does not negate the advantage to new characters as was its purpose insofar as that, and creates no systemic inequality.

Would you like to discuss this in voice? It seems written language is failing here.
PM me if so and Ill arrange it.