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QUESTION : automatics "reloaded" sells orders ?

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Miss Credits
Stationdwellers United
#21 - 2015-09-25 09:58:09 UTC
Are you sorting it to have the lowest value item at the bottom or at the top? You know, since you are buying from the lowest -line- not lowest -price-..
letstrade onthemarket
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-09-25 16:42:42 UTC
Miss Credits wrote:
Are you sorting it to have the lowest value item at the bottom or at the top? You know, since you are buying from the lowest -line- not lowest -price-..


yes i did , as you already do when you want to buy , to have lowest prices
letstrade onthemarket
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-09-30 10:36:10 UTC
after all the discussions i had wiht differents pilots , i didnt find any good explanation to this

for me there is two solutions : this an option id dont know or this a cheat made with a prog

so i will ask to ccp , i kept all the logs of this , and i will post their reply here .

thanks for everybody for their time
Trix Andrard
Doomheim
#24 - 2015-09-30 14:45:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Trix Andrard
This is an "simplistic image" that make itself appear from the way the market works.

If you just read everyone and sum up what they are saying, they just told you exactly what is happening.

Between people manually refilling orders by modification or stock, to the system the market chooses from what order to get what you buy from, all those working in their situations or mixed up gives you the illusion that you see what you claim but you dont.

From the system side, they said that you buy from the sell orders the market itself chooses by its rules. Not even if you go and click buy on the order you are guaranteed to by from that order. For example, if you try to buy from an order in a station and there is cheaper orders in the same station, you will buy from the cheaper order by a higer price they asked. That is something novus traders get caught always. They set up to buy out people, and start buying from the more expensive order and dont see it change, not noticing that the stock is comming from another order.

Another thing people do is set up multiple orders of an item, like 10, 15, 10000. When they sell the 10 ones, and see the 15 ones are not going, they change the 10000 order to 10. That is like having a "stock already shipped" expecting to sell it when it is more convenient. This is also done in buy orders. You set up orders to buy at reasonable prices and other orders to buy at miserable prices like 1 isk. You leave that there to capitalize on "just a game folks" selling anything anywhere, and if you really need to get the product, you change the order to a reasonable price.

The average experienced trader may have billions of ISK in sell and buy orders set up to market prices or insanely over/under priced to be changed to react the market. That is like having your ship aligned to the station while mining, or having your D-Scan in W-Space.

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Work around spies for a while, and you learn to be careful when it looks like you're getting what you want.
letstrade onthemarket
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-09-30 15:57:27 UTC  |  Edited by: letstrade onthemarket
Trix Andrard wrote:
This is an "simplistic image" that make itself appear from the way the market works.

If you just read everyone and sum up what they are saying, they just told you exactly what is happening.

Between people manually refilling orders by modification or stock, to the system the market chooses from what order to get what you buy from, all those working in their situations or mixed up gives you the illusion that you see what you claim but you dont.

From the system side, they said that you buy from the sell orders the market itself chooses by its rules. Not even if you go and click buy on the order you are guaranteed to by from that order. For example, if you try to buy from an order in a station and there is cheaper orders in the same station, you will buy from the cheaper order by a higer price they asked. That is something novus traders get caught always. They set up to buy out people, and start buying from the more expensive order and dont see it change, not noticing that the stock is comming from another order.

Another thing people do is set up multiple orders of an item, like 10, 15, 10000. When they sell the 10 ones, and see the 15 ones are not going, they change the 10000 order to 10. That is like having a "stock already shipped" expecting to sell it when it is more convenient. This is also done in buy orders. You set up orders to buy at reasonable prices and other orders to buy at miserable prices like 1 isk. You leave that there to capitalize on "just a game folks" selling anything anywhere, and if you really need to get the product, you change the order to a reasonable price.

The average experienced trader may have billions of ISK in sell and buy orders set up to market prices or insanely over/under priced to be changed to react the market. That is like having your ship aligned to the station while mining, or having your D-Scan in W-Space.


thanks for yours explanations but it doesnt seems like what i saw , but maybe i m wrong ( my english isnt perfect i m not sure to understand perfectly ) or maybe i bad explained myself too :

- when i buy i always manage sell orders from lowest to higter
- i know you cant choice the items you buy , you automaticly buy the lowest ones
- i baught all this of this lowest line , there where 7 in this case and , i did it 6 times before it goes to zero and i could buy the next line
- i recepted 42 items in my wallet , so it wasnt a "mecanic's "update" trouble
- i did all this in 10 second so each time there was less than 1.5 second for the pilot to manage new orders : it is impossible for an human
- the next lowest orders wasnt the same pilot
-the pilot i baught to wasnt an npc ( i checked his hystory and killboard )
- i m not a new trader i do this from 3 years and i have hundreds orders online , but i can imagine i missed something , we learn everyday
- i saw this only 6 times in 30 months and this last times i kept screenshot and logs

i posted to ccp and wait for a reply

i will post the result here for this that are interested

thanks
Railroad Cop
Carebears -With- Guns
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2015-10-19 02:15:11 UTC
I have just run into this as well.

I'm seeding a fairly empty market.

I've made 1mil HAM's.
I go to put up a sell order.
I see someone has a sell order for the same Item. They only have 1000 units and they are well under market / manufature price.

So i think oh ok - i'll buy these up then re-list them when i put up my order.

I select the order from the market menu. I enter in 1000 units, I hit buy. Isk leaves my wallet, I get the 1000 units of HAM from that seller.

The sell order - from the same seller - for 1000 units of HAM's are still on the market.

Maybe i did not do it properly? I did it again - 3 more times. I now have 4000 units of HAM's purchased from the same person - whom has a single order on the market for 1000 units.

It does not look like the order is being re-listed - it never disappears.

I'd like to clean out this guy that's selling that item for way under market / manufacturing price... but i appear unable to?
Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
#27 - 2015-10-19 09:46:52 UTC
Railroad Cop wrote:
It does not look like the order is being re-listed - it never disappears.


You should see the time till order expires changing.

Say: This sell order for 1000 HAM had 35 days, 8 hours, 22 minutes left
You buy 1000 HAM from this sell order

Refreshed market shows:

a) 1000 HAM with 35 days, 8 hours, 21 minutes left
-> a1) you didn't buy from this sell order
-> a2) the database is buggy

b) 1000 HAM with 89 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes left
-> b1) someone instantly made a new sell order with same amount/price
-> b2) something instantly made a new sell order with same amount/price
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#28 - 2015-10-19 13:22:01 UTC
Railroad Cop wrote:
I have just run into this as well.


Reread this thread and maybe this one: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6099897#post6099897

It's been explained so many times before.

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TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#29 - 2015-10-27 07:10:55 UTC
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
Don't forget that weird thing where orders may have expired (and be unlisted) but haven't yet been through database cleanup and so you can end up buying from an expired order that happens to be the cheapest and isn't visible. I'm not sure this happens anymore, but it used to be a thing.


Its still going on.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#30 - 2015-10-27 07:17:18 UTC
Railroad Cop wrote:
I have just run into this as well.

I'm seeding a fairly empty market.

I've made 1mil HAM's.
I go to put up a sell order.
I see someone has a sell order for the same Item. They only have 1000 units and they are well under market / manufature price.

So i think oh ok - i'll buy these up then re-list them when i put up my order.

I select the order from the market menu. I enter in 1000 units, I hit buy. Isk leaves my wallet, I get the 1000 units of HAM from that seller.

The sell order - from the same seller - for 1000 units of HAM's are still on the market.

Maybe i did not do it properly? I did it again - 3 more times. I now have 4000 units of HAM's purchased from the same person - whom has a single order on the market for 1000 units.

It does not look like the order is being re-listed - it never disappears.

I'd like to clean out this guy that's selling that item for way under market / manufacturing price... but i appear unable to?


Its simple, someone has an order with at least 4001 pieces listed in that market, and it expired that day, but downtime was not yet hit, so the order is still there until downtime hits and then the order is removed from the market.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Professor Humbert
Project Fruit House
#31 - 2015-10-29 06:51:13 UTC

  • Did you actually receive the items? If yes, where?
  • Was your market window filtered by any of the followings: Range, Security, Price?
  • What was the range of your buy order?
  • What was the duration of your buy order?
  • What was the minimum quantity of your buy order?




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