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[Vanguard] Guristas Cruiser Burner Mission

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Author
CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-09-23 14:03:28 UTC
Greetings test loving pilots!

Currently available for testing on Singularity is the latest burner mission. This time players will be pitting their fitting and flying expertise against the Guristas, as always expect this mission to be challenging!

This mission will be available from any standard level 4 security agent, though other missions may initially be offered.

Remember that you can type "/booststandings" in any chat window in game to receive the standings required to be offered these missions.

As always we encouraged you to try out this new mission, give us some feedback here & submit bug reports for any issues you find. I'll add any known issues to this post as we go.

Happy Testing,

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#2 - 2015-09-23 22:23:47 UTC
But will they drop Guristas edition golem skins?? That is the true question....

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#3 - 2015-09-24 05:08:01 UTC
anyone know offhand a system that has an agent and a seeded market in station?

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#4 - 2015-09-24 05:17:46 UTC
Mission text if anyone is interested. sounds painful

Anomic Base

I have a special optional and extremely difficult mission for you, we won’t penalize you if you decline it.

The Wyvren-class Supercarrier Antero was recently stolen from the Caldari by a group of hijackers funded by the Guristas. They seem to have somehow double-crossed their employers, and now both the Caldari Navy and the Guristas are after them. Their Supercarrier is severely damaged, but still commands a powerful contingent of heavily modified fighters.
I wouldn’t normally care too much about this ship, except that it just showed up outside a nearby repair depot demanding repairs and threatening violence. If they damage that depot I’m going to personally lose a significant investment, and we can’t let that happen. If you accept this mission, you’ll need to get over there and convince them that there are better depots to hold up than mine. There’s no way that you’ll be able to kill it, but if you wipe out enough of its fighters I’m sure they’ll get the hint.

Only medium sized ships can gain entry to the repair yard, so don’t try to bring anything bigger.
These rogue pirates have waves of heavily modified fighters and fighter bombers with strong shield tanks and small signatures. They deal all four damage types, with their modified Dragonfly fighters spewing Explosive, Kinetic and Thermal at close range, and their modified Mantis fighter-bombers lobbing EM damage from longer ranges. They always fly with Stasis Webifiers and Warp Scramblers fit. To save my repair depot you’ll need to keep destroying waves of fighters until the Wyvren decides to cut its losses and leave.

A word of warning: these rogue pirates are extremely dangerous and have proven very capable of destroying capsuleer ships. If you choose to decline this mission or if you fail to complete it, you will not lose any standings.

Declining a mission from a particular agent more than once every 4 hours will result in a loss of standing with that agent.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#5 - 2015-09-24 05:41:28 UTC
errm... it went from too easy to my ship got alpha'd. I survived the first round and warped out to tune my fit a little/get more cap boosters came back and blew out the next spawn of dragonflys, then the mantis spawn happened and as soon as they got to 0, I was in a pod

05:31:40 Combat 2896 from Burner Mantis - Mjolnir Torpedo - Hits
05:31:40 Combat 766 from Burner Mantis - Mjolnir Torpedo - Hits

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#6 - 2015-09-24 06:21:30 UTC
It seemed too easy, at least outside the getting randomly volleyed part. Although looking at the log out of game, it looks like the small hit was first and the big hit second... I think I forgot to turn my rep back on, although that wouldn't have mattered as all 5 hits came within 2 seconds. The big hit would have been all 0% resist structure.

used the standard vigilant fit from the angel burner base. Swapped one hardener for a RAH (so EANM 1x exp 1x RAH). When I came back I had EANM, EM, DCII. probably worth playing around with the hardeners, and maybe swapping a web for an AB. or at the very least bringing null to take out the bombers a little more quickly. Also having access to shiny mods. Still want to test a kite oracle, but think it will get crushed by the bombers.

And the drone hate is getting to the point of stupidity. The way the fighters switch to t2 light drones I can only assume the burner design team owns a bunch of drone bpos.

PS since agents seem to be offering most of the usual mission pool it seems like it might be too easy to go -2 at the agent/corp level.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#7 - 2015-09-24 10:26:01 UTC
There's another pass on the mission that will be in the next SISI update. It includes a cleaner deadspace complex with fewer structures and some difficulty tweaks.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#8 - 2015-09-24 11:51:33 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
PS since agents seem to be offering most of the usual mission pool it seems like it might be too easy to go -2 at the agent/corp level.

Yeah, this can be a problem when testing new missions on SiSi. It'd be helpful if the booststandings command raised standings with all NPC corps as well as the NPC factions.
CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#9 - 2015-09-24 16:56:57 UTC
Hey folks, thanks for the feedback so far. I've now disabled all other basic level 4 missions on Singularity so this should be the only mission offered. Happy testing!

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#10 - 2015-09-24 22:50:48 UTC
mission has changed enough most of what I said earlier doesn't apply. Also other missions are still active on sisi, does it need a downtime to kick in? (although there was a mission I wanted to test which I did get a chance to do, time to go shopping on tq)

I think the vigilant is still the way to go, although I was mostly thinking how much faction webs would help, a faction AB would be nice, and faction/deadspace tank would really help.

The Dragonfly fighters orbit at ~9km, go down reasonably quickly with null, although they seem to do a lot of damage, enough to put me in structure. Probably want to optimize hardeners for them. My RAH went 18% exp 42% therm. Top speed I saw was 1200m/s. Looking at the logs the thermal missiles hit pretty frequently for a good amount of damage.

The bombers orbit at 18km at 900m/s, can burst up to 2500 m/s. t2 ab vigilant is around 800m/s with 13km webs, so that was annoying, but can hit them with null and a tracking comp scripted for range, just takes a while. Also they do almost no damage. Not sure how much of that was because I was AB speed/sig tanking the missiles, or if I just stacked too much EM resist?

Kite oracle feels like it wants to work, but seems to have to burn out just a little too far, and has some tracking issues, dang them fighters have a small sig radius! I did play with speeds and I started getting good hits, but the mission ended very shortly after. Didn't think of it till the last wave. Kiting also seems to work very well, the bombers can't even hit you. I turned around and burned back through the mantis spawn, and I got hit once. I'm not sure about the initial spawn of dragonflies, as I decided to come back and see what happened with the oracle half way through. Maybe something with medium guns would do it better. I thought about a kite nomen but not sure if that does enough dps to be effective.

Drone aggro is still a bit funny. the way they switch points to the drones but keep shooting the ship is funny.

looking forward to eventually pulling another and trying it with links. Also interested to see what MWD sig bloom does to mantis damage. And also a kite rail vigilant, looks like CN antimatter does a bit more dps than blasters with null and at the perfect range.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#11 - 2015-09-25 07:48:04 UTC
What about the T2 cruisers? Vagabond will easily have the reach and tracking and especially the resists, either shield or armor (probably better shield distro) and has close to the same dps albeit at falloff, muninn can do the arty/armor/quake route as can the eagle with javelin rails. The deimos has abit better dps as the vagabond with rails and a 18km optimal with AM though the tank is a bit light on explosive and only 50% base EM. If Therm is a prob the eagly has really good therm resists with minatar and gall having 2nd best.

No experience with the amarr HACs tho.

Crazy idea: Huginn with its web range bonus and paint effectiveness bonus could get crazy application on the fighters?

Maybe I should fire up the test server as well. Sounds like an interesting mission.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Miali Askulf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-09-26 06:21:05 UTC
Don't think you'll be able to track in most of the T2 cruisers, the fighters orbit at 1200m/s and have a <20m sig or something - even with dual webs application will be pretty bad.
Miali Askulf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2015-09-26 07:34:24 UTC
Ok so kiting them in an ONI worked - took too long to be worth doing regularly though (there's a fairly silly amount of ehp to grind through given their speed/sig). Damage application from the bombers felt really odd even when I was just coasting with MWD off - was sometimes getting hit from 50k, sometimes not getting hit at 30k - not sure what's going on here.

Speeds are just 1200/900 for the fighters/bombers, but both types burst to 2200/2500 for a very short period of time every now and then (not for long enough for it to be particularly dangerous though). Not sure what's going on there.

Drone targeting was really odd and they kept swapping between targets without being told to.
Aren Dar
EVE University
Ivy League
#14 - 2015-09-26 11:24:27 UTC
It appears that the current sisi build causes the agent queue to be bugged - so if this particular mission is presented to the user and declined, then you don't get any more missions from the agent, but instead get the message:

"I'm sorry, but what I've got is promised to another pilot already. Could you come back later?"
Luscius Uta
#15 - 2015-09-26 14:23:42 UTC
Anyone tried a RLML Cerberus for this mission? I can't try it since I can't fly it and my alt who can is unsubbed :(

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Yin Zheng
Blumenkranz Academy
#16 - 2015-09-27 21:11:51 UTC
Aren Dar wrote:
It appears that the current sisi build causes the agent queue to be bugged - so if this particular mission is presented to the user and declined, then you don't get any more missions from the agent, but instead get the message:

"I'm sorry, but what I've got is promised to another pilot already. Could you come back later?"

Same.

And when are you going to enable the rest lvl 4 missions? After the Tuesday, I presume?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#17 - 2015-09-27 21:22:37 UTC
Aren Dar wrote:
It appears that the current sisi build causes the agent queue to be bugged - so if this particular mission is presented to the user and declined, then you don't get any more missions from the agent, but instead get the message:

"I'm sorry, but what I've got is promised to another pilot already. Could you come back later?"

that seems to happen when they change it to only offering one mission. luckily you can use booststandings to get 10 faction standings and run any agent in game. agent finder sorts agents by # of jumps so easy to find the closest agent.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#18 - 2015-09-27 22:16:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
Luscius Uta wrote:
Anyone tried a RLML Cerberus for this mission? I can't try it since I can't fly it and my alt who can is unsubbed :(


Yes. It is trivial to kite the fighters with a Cerb. But it doesn't do enough damage to break their self reps, even with precision ammo.

Now they orbit just inside 10k and kite the **** out of everything while you're triple webbed and scrammed. RIP.

I managed to complete this mission solo (no links) using an AB dual-rep blaster Vigilant. Bring a lot of cap booster charges and nanite paste. I also found that SW-600 webbing drones were extremely helpful in chasing down the Mantis fighter-bombers. Once I got into heated web range, pretty much everything died. The issue was getting into range. Heating AB and web was critical. Hence, the requirement for lots of paste.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#19 - 2015-09-28 18:17:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Torgeir Hekard
Okay.
So far I've tried:

The 500mn beam oracle. Does work. Slowly. The funniest part is, once the NPCs hit the leash, with their new speeds and orbits they can be pretty reliably hit from out 150km with beams with radios if you simply stop. So the easiest way is you drag a batch to the leash end, get 150km away, stop, select a target, press F1 and go for a tea. Rinse. Repeat. The longest part is actually dragging them out and then burning 300km back. For each wave. Has to keep as far away as possible to reduce transversal.

The 50mn beam zealot. Kinda like oracle, but with better steering and more time till the leash end, so you can kill one or two before it. Proper kiting is annoying because you need to make long wide turns, and you stop hitting targets doing them.

Single-rep dualweb AB deimos. Shamefur dispray. Got triple-webbed and died to dragonflies. With SW-600s and antimatter could probably kill something and then tank 2 fighters. AB is debateable since it's useless against dragonflies and MWD could help with, errr, mantises? Mantes? Mantii?

RLML orthrus fit for max application (rigor, flare, 2xPWNAGE, MGCxPrecision Script). It actually works. One load per dragonfly. With mantis it depends. Sometimes it dies in one load. If you heat painters it's almost guaranteed. If you don't it may require 2 loads. Raw HP are the main issue. Cerb would probably fare worse because less EHP per load and worse damage type. Unfortunately I can't think of a better LML platform than an orthrus for this particular task.

With orthrus It was possible to forget about freeman^W tracking and watch the NPCs.
Well, dragonflies [email protected] or so and [email protected] They only shoot out to 10km and do a mix of thermal (rockets) and explosive (acs?).
Manti-plurals only [email protected] or so. The interesting thing about them is they shoot VERY slow missiles with a long flight time. I think missiles go like 2500. You can fly past a mantis without taking damage as long as you go fast enough. On the other hand, they sometimes do 2,5km/s speed bursts, which makes them cavalry manti-plurals. That is, if they are chasing you, and you are pulsing your mwd, you are going to get a pack of missiles at once. Which hurts like a freight train.

Another point of note is, the speed burst, both mantis and dragonfly, are from MWD. Each time they burst, the sig blooms. Application is much better on the bursting targets.

EDIT:
Broad. Dual180s. XLASB. Dualweb. It kills. It tanks. Its cargo does not though.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#20 - 2015-09-28 20:48:59 UTC
Just ran it again with a t2 fit + eos links. I'm thinking 18 fighters is just too many. Mission felt pretty long. That said full eos links made it feel a little too easy (nerf ogb, there I said it). my main concern is with the sig reducing skirmish link, kinda wondering how much that helped me, will probably do one more run without it. Also still bummed on the whole faction web thing, Almost all of my heat damage was from heating AB + Web to grab the 18km mantis. a fed navy web and I would have a fraction of the heat damage. I'm really just being lazy I have a few on various ships near by, but I'd rather just go to jita and buy one. Might try a run with a mwd, although probably not as the bombers do scary damage when not moving, and I hate to think what they'd do with +500% sig radius.

also the fighters have insane agility, they nearly lose all speed immediately from a web, and it makes manual piloting to get into range rather hard. but can also use that well as they fly straight away at near 0 transversal.

okay I grabbed a fed navy web off a ship and it helps a good bit. I also turned off most of the links, just using the armor resist link. That makes a pretty big difference on how much damage is taken, or how much gets repaired. 25% faster reps are pretty huge, but -34% sig is huge as well. I ended that run with a lot of heat damage on my tank. but as I anticipated almost no heat damage on my prop/web.

general strategy:
Dragonfly fighters: heat guns for first fighter, and kill asap. these guys hurt, you tank will break, a little heat on the tank might be needed. Not sure how much movement helps, especially with the 3x webs, but a little might help, and any help on that is nice to have. I almost burned out one of my hardeners on the second wave, so I didn't use heat at all on the third but made it through. Depending on how much heat damage you have might be worth using some heat on the second in each wave as well.

Mantis fighter bombers: Heat Fed navy web 2 cycles while approaching with afterburner shoot with null. Always be moving! With base speed torps hit for ~100 if you slow down torps will hit for 500+

misc: make sure your drones are attacking a bomber and not trying to kill the wyvern on their own.

First and last combat logs.
first run: Full eos armor/skrimish links
[ 2015.09.28 17:57:56 ] (combat) Burner Dragonfly misses you completely
[ 2015.09.28 18:14:24 ] (combat) 690 to Burner Mantis - Heavy Neutron Blaster II - Glances Off

second run: add fed navy web + just the resist armor link.
[ 2015.09.28 19:25:29 ] (combat) Burner Dragonfly misses you completely
[ 2015.09.28 19:39:04 ] (combat) 1156 to Burner Mantis - Heavy Neutron Blaster II - Penetrates

this is what my fit ended up being. I swapped to a tracking speed script mid mission as hit quality wasn't very good vs the dragonflies. should have probably swapped it back to an optimal for the mantis part. A rig swap might help, but that is the same rig setup as I use for the angel atomic base, so I didn't really want to change it unless I need to.

from here I think a navy EANM, a few deadspace hardeners, and a shiny rep will make it pretty doable. Also not sure on the drones. I was thinking maybe some augmented hobgoblins, or maybe hornets. I only tried t2 hobgobs and acolytes. maybe a railgun setup? 250s with cn AM seem to do more damage than null, but I'm not sure on the tracking. maybe swap to double web for the fighters, and vs the bombers I don't think it will make a difference.

[Vigilant, Gurista burner base t2]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
10MN Afterburner II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M

Medium Anti-EM Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

Acolyte II x5
Acolyte II x5

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

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