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Plex hits 1b ISK in Jita

First post
Author
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#721 - 2015-09-24 00:22:05 UTC
Alas Yang, I hit reply with the intent of going along with your Aaronicde. I can not bring myself to follow through.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#722 - 2015-09-24 00:23:17 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Alas Yang, I hit reply with the intent of going along with your Aaronicde. I can not bring myself to follow through.



Is that compassion I detect?! Shocked

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#723 - 2015-09-24 00:40:57 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Alas Yang, I hit reply with the intent of going along with your Aaronicde. I can not bring myself to follow through.



Is that compassion I detect?! Shocked



It was a reaction to the bile rising up my throat.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#724 - 2015-09-24 02:52:22 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
To hopefully break up Aaron and Tippi's spat (They do converse just like a married couple) It is interesting how plex prices work. It is pretty fantastic economics. Commodity trading. Isk to plex, and plex back to isk or consumed for a use. People buy plex with the commodity they receive from real world work to get plex.

[snip]


No, people who buy PLEX buy it with fiat currency not commodities.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#725 - 2015-09-24 03:08:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron
Teckos Pech wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:
To hopefully break up Aaron and Tippi's spat (They do converse just like a married couple) It is interesting how plex prices work. It is pretty fantastic economics. Commodity trading. Isk to plex, and plex back to isk or consumed for a use. People buy plex with the commodity they receive from real world work to get plex.

[snip]


No, people who buy PLEX buy it with fiat currency not commodities.


Currency is a commodity and traded world wide. Google "Forex"

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#726 - 2015-09-24 03:54:06 UTC
Aaron wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:
To hopefully break up Aaron and Tippi's spat (They do converse just like a married couple) It is interesting how plex prices work. It is pretty fantastic economics. Commodity trading. Isk to plex, and plex back to isk or consumed for a use. People buy plex with the commodity they receive from real world work to get plex.

[snip]


No, people who buy PLEX buy it with fiat currency not commodities.


Currency is a commodity and traded world wide. Google "Forex"


No, currency is NOT a commodity. Currencies these days are fiat currencies--i.e. they have no real intrinsic value. They only have value because the government says they have value and people believe it.

All modern currencies can be described as IOU nothings.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#727 - 2015-09-24 13:04:48 UTC
if anyone wants to send me their worthless fiat currency (which is a massive fire risk btw) PM me for my k-space postal address.

forums.  serious business.

Isajah
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#728 - 2015-09-24 13:21:39 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


No, currency is NOT a commodity. Currencies these days are fiat currencies--i.e. they have no real intrinsic value. They only have value because the government says they have value and people believe it.

All modern currencies can be described as IOU nothings.


not because government tells you; because we all agree to that a specific currency is worth anything. the moment a seller does accepts or does not accept a specific currency, it has value or not.

Me wants Comet mining

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#729 - 2015-09-24 14:28:40 UTC
Aaron wrote:
I think you're a teenage boy, you still live at home with mum and dad and you think you know how the world works which you haven't even experienced yet.
Irony.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Zihao
Doomheim
#730 - 2015-09-24 14:36:36 UTC
Isajah wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


No, currency is NOT a commodity. Currencies these days are fiat currencies--i.e. they have no real intrinsic value. They only have value because the government says they have value and people believe it.

All modern currencies can be described as IOU nothings.


not because government tells you; because we all agree to that a specific currency is worth anything. the moment a seller does accepts or does not accept a specific currency, it has value or not.



Functionally the same considering legal tender laws.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#731 - 2015-09-24 15:34:49 UTC
Zihao wrote:
Isajah wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


No, currency is NOT a commodity. Currencies these days are fiat currencies--i.e. they have no real intrinsic value. They only have value because the government says they have value and people believe it.

All modern currencies can be described as IOU nothings.


not because government tells you; because we all agree to that a specific currency is worth anything. the moment a seller does accepts or does not accept a specific currency, it has value or not.



Functionally the same considering legal tender laws.


The legal tender thing is rather important. While there are some cryptocurrencies that are fiat money (e.g. BitCoin) but it still has to get approval from the government (it is considered a virtual currency in the U.S. and there were a number of instances where the government has acted as if BitCoin were a currency).

Governments like having their monopoly position when it comes to money and their role in the banking industry...typically because it lets them finance government activities. Banks, depending on the country and the banking system, can work to raise money for the government (basically like taxes) or can be used to promote policies indirectly where direct promotion would be much more difficult. For example, if you want to encourage home ownership a great way to do it is via the banking system as it looks like it has little cost in term of the government's budget. Of course there is a problem here in that what looks like a "free lunch" is anything but. For example, to often get this kind of a change government will implicitly promise to bail out banks and/or cover higher mortgage default rates....this can lead to a moral hazard problem which can be quite costly as we saw here.

In the case of a currency crisis things tend to go out the window. The government has basically lost its credibility at maintaining a stable money supply and people then turn to another alternative (for example in Zimbabwe it is my understanding most people use U.S. dollars).

Anyhow, this is getting quite far from the topic of PLEX prices.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Zihao
Doomheim
#732 - 2015-09-24 19:11:52 UTC
You must make your last payment in wampum.
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#733 - 2015-09-24 19:27:41 UTC
It's like the currency in some places.
It's not that the prices are going up so fast.
It's that the money is losing its value so fast.
You have to raise the price just to make
the same amount of money as before.

Simple math. Something economists fail to employ.

There just isn't anything that can be said!

Zihao
Doomheim
#734 - 2015-09-24 19:44:59 UTC
Something something multi-trillion sword of Damocles. Something something 0% forever.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#735 - 2015-09-24 19:56:21 UTC
Aaron wrote:
Currency is a commodity and traded world wide. Google "Forex"


From an investment standpoint, currency is not considered to trade in commodity markets. The commodity market is simply the trading of products that are not manufactured in any way.

Currency can be (and is) manipulated through interest rate adjustments, issuing/buying back securities, and adjusting minimum reserve requirements.

Commodities can not be manipulated like that.

Could Japan manipulate the price of copper the same as it is currently manipulating the Yen?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#736 - 2015-09-24 20:19:13 UTC
Otso Bakarti wrote:
It's like the currency in some places.
It's not that the prices are going up so fast.
It's that the money is losing its value so fast.
You have to raise the price just to make
the same amount of money as before.

Simple math. Something economists fail to employ.


Yeah economists don't do math. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#737 - 2015-09-24 20:33:02 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:
To hopefully break up Aaron and Tippi's spat (They do converse just like a married couple) It is interesting how plex prices work. It is pretty fantastic economics. Commodity trading. Isk to plex, and plex back to isk or consumed for a use. People buy plex with the commodity they receive from real world work to get plex.

[snip]


No, people who buy PLEX buy it with fiat currency not commodities.


Currency is a commodity and traded world wide. Google "Forex"


No, currency is NOT a commodity. Currencies these days are fiat currencies--i.e. they have no real intrinsic value. They only have value because the government says they have value and people believe it.

All modern currencies can be described as IOU nothings.


How do you describe the act of trading one currency against another?

Money combats the inability to trade unlike skill sets or goods in barter, We are given fiat money yes I agree, It does hold value because we use it to pay our bills. I agree that it has no underlying value.

If I've got £100,000 and I want to trade it's value against another currency then I've got 100,000 commodities.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#738 - 2015-09-24 21:05:08 UTC
Aaron wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:
To hopefully break up Aaron and Tippi's spat (They do converse just like a married couple) It is interesting how plex prices work. It is pretty fantastic economics. Commodity trading. Isk to plex, and plex back to isk or consumed for a use. People buy plex with the commodity they receive from real world work to get plex.

[snip]


No, people who buy PLEX buy it with fiat currency not commodities.


Currency is a commodity and traded world wide. Google "Forex"


No, currency is NOT a commodity. Currencies these days are fiat currencies--i.e. they have no real intrinsic value. They only have value because the government says they have value and people believe it.

All modern currencies can be described as IOU nothings.


How do you describe the act of trading one currency against another?

Money combats the inability to trade unlike skill sets or goods in barter, We are given fiat money yes I agree, It does hold value because we use it to pay our bills. I agree that it has no underlying value.

If I've got £100,000 and I want to trade it's value against another currency then I've got 100,000 commodities.



Trading one IOU-nothing for another IOU-nothing.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#739 - 2015-09-24 23:59:33 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:


Could Japan manipulate the price of copper the same as it is currently manipulating the Yen?


Individual countries probably will struggle.

But try telling De Beers or OPEC you cannot manipulate a commodity price.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#740 - 2015-09-25 00:11:37 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Cidanel Afuran wrote:


Could Japan manipulate the price of copper the same as it is currently manipulating the Yen?


Individual countries probably will struggle.

But try telling De Beers or OPEC you cannot manipulate a commodity price.


Sure you can form a cartel and try to influence the price of anything really. All firms would love to have more monopoly power than less.

The point was that a country can manipulate its own currency with considerable ease relatively speaking.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online