Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I just pointed out that the discrepancies you see, are just the pros and cons of each hull, they're better at each respective role than each other carrier is, whether one role is more prominent than the other is a debate of meta, not balance.

A larger boost amount doesn't specifically denote more useful in triage. Part of the reason the Chimmie and Archon are better is the resist bonus, and more optimized for their role slot layout. With the Thanny and Nid having suboptimal layouts for armor or shield in comparison, they may not be quite as useful all the same. The Nid is good in WH's in large part due to the limit on what it will potentially face, but in the larger upper limit of null/low, even with a greater boost amount it may prove a lesser triage due to its slot layout , weaker resists, and more 'balanced' hp values. That and they would both probably need their fitting reworked so they could fit a proper triage fit.... I think the chimmie does too IIRC.

Exactly. So what the OP is complaining about is that each carrier has a specific role, and the OP isn't happy because he wants them to be able to do every role.

The Thanatos is the best DPS carrier (you shouldn't even bother fitting a triage so not sure why your complaining about that one), Nidhoggur is the best RR carrier, Archon is the best armour fleet ship, and the Chimera is the best shield fleet ship.

I get the impression that people complain because some alliance drone told them to train the Chimera or the Archon because they are the best large scale fleet ships and probably told them the Nid and Thanatos are useless (which is a myth), and so without thinking for themselves they come onto the forums to QQ asking CCP to change them so they can use their Nid or Thanatos in their alliance fleet.

Just think of it like this OP, the Guardian and Basilisk are the best fleet logi, but that doesn't mean you ask CCP to change the Scimitar and Onerios to have a resist bonus does it.

Maybe you should have chosen your training queue better. This is like griping about not getting the same bonus for railguns on a Zealot that you get with an Eagle.

A thanny CAN fit an armor triage fit comparable to an archon, it just needs an 3% PG implant I think? Possibly 5, it's been a long time since I tried. But because it lacks a low and because it doesn't have as much armor to start and because it doesn't have the resist bonus which is basically a free low slot, it doesn't triage as well, before even getting to the limit on capacitor transfer range.


That being said, thanny is a good choice if you have an armor carrier fleet, but need a carrier to rep a pos shield, because it can armor tank and do shield reps, among many other scenarios. Right tool for the job doesn't mean it's a bad tool.


And with the damage potential a thanny has, it is quite capable of living up to its namesake, in the hands of a competent pilot and fleet:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanatos

Forgive the wikipedia 'sourcing,' too lazy to go find a proper one at the minute.

You seem awfully set on only ever using a Thanny in Triage.

Respectfully, I don't think that's a problem.

One carrier is superior in small-gang DPS, and another carrier is superior in small-gang reps.


If your typical gameplay isn't congruent with the ship you trained for, that's not CCP's fault. I suggest you jump it to station of the nearest L5 agent and list it on the market.

Well Archon is superior in small gang reps, in and out of triage. Archon is superior in large scale fights in and out of triage. You get to choose when to push the triage button. What you are saying is there is no button for the thanny. Effectively you deny the use of a module for the sake of the bonus.

Ok, i guess Thanatos is different. Assign fighters and skyneting, plus ratting - lvl5s is the soul of the Thanny.

Case closed.

It would give the Nidhoggur and Thanatos a stronger tank when in Triage mode.


And this is precisely because their role as a solo repper is valued. When solo, a Scimitar or Oneiros has stronger defense than a Basilisk or Guardian, while also being competent at repping without having a cap chain to feed them.

As it stands, the Nidhoggur can solo-rep about as well as an Archon or Chimera, while Thanatos is even worse. Here's some changes that could affect that a lot:

1.) Move one low slot from Chimera and one mid slot from Archon to high. This will improve Chimera and Archon's ability to spider tank while reducing their solo and triage defensive capacity.
2.) Give Thanatos +7.5% armor repair amount per level, and give Nidhoggur +7.5% shield boost amount per level. This will improve their defensive capacity to be more on-par with the Chimera and Archon, leaving the Thanatos and Nidhoggur tougher with on-board reps but softer when receiving remote reps.
3.) Give Nidhoggur 5% fighter damage bonus per level, take away its capital rep bonuses (being replaced with shield boost bonus which works with any size). This will make the Nidhoggur useful as a shield ratting carrier.
4.) Give Nidhoggur and Thanatos a 25% reduction to remote rep capacitor cost while in triage mode. This will help solidify them as a triage ship.

You may notice with my balance changes that the Archon and Chimera have two skill bonus distinctions (remote capacitor transmitter and resist bonus) while Nidhoggur and Thanatos have three (dual rep bonus, fighter damage, and triage cap cost reduction). Consider that they will only benefit from two of the three at any given time: in triage mode they cannot use fighters; outside of triage mode they get no cap cost reduction but can still act as a dual repper.

The 6th high slot on Archon and Chimera is not going to allow them to use a 16th fighter as they still have just 375mbit/sec drone bandwidth, however increasing their bandwidth to 400mbit/sec along with this change may help reduce the gap between them and the Thanatos/Nidhoggur in terms of ratting superiority, and help get more variety on the field in PVE situations. However, either Advanced Drone Interfacing would need to be reworked, or these ships given a role bonus, to allow the 6th Drone Control Unit to be fit.



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Finally, I would like to address comments I have been hearing about disallowing normal drones to be fit to carriers, or disallowing fighters to be fit to supercarriers: I have a better idea. This will thoroughly break slowcats as a dominant force but will still allow them to operate in much the same manner as before, simply weakened:

Remove the carrier and supercarrier bonus to number of drones that can be launched. Increase fighter and fighter bomber damage by 50%. Now, a carrier fit with drone control units is just as powerful as before, but one without any will have fighter/bomber damage reduced by 1/4th. Slowcats will only be able to launch 5 sentries without any drone control units fit, which will reduce their damage by half unless they change the fit to incorporate some drone control units, but that will reduce remote repping capability.

I guess we are not communicating at all. Never said make them equal. Please read my posts more carefully. I said close the gap, its not the same. Archon will have the most ehp, chimmy will tank the most raw dps, Thanny will apply the most dps, and niddy the most RR. Every carrier will maintain its tactical advantage and will be better than others. But other carriers will keep up!!

Yes , you are right, the smarter player will always get an edge, provided he can fly it. So , by implication you are saying that unless you have enough sps to field the ideal solution, you are stuck to a carrier designed for a specific niche. Yet we are talking about capitals, not subcaps. Players are constraint to what they can fly, yet all ship can play specific roles equally well. Whether you look at hacs, recons, hics, you name it, they can do it, they are not equal, yet they perform equally well. But when it comes to pushing that freaking button...NO..skill up for another carrier. I want my 3k thanny!!

:D