EVE General Discussion

High sec had tons of buffs to carebears already. War dec costs went from 2 mil minimum to 50 mil. Then we have ships that AFK players like to go AFK in getting their EHPs buffed in order to make it more expensive to gank them.

I think it is time the tables were turned and the carebear party came to an end. Remove Concord from the game. Nerf high sec for good!

Eve is NOT strictly a pvp game I am so sick of hearing that is all Eve is, here is CCps definition of what Eve Online is:

EVE Online is a massively multiplayer online game set 23,000 years in the future. As an elite pilot of one of the four controlling races, you will explore, build, and dominate across a universe of over 7,000 star systems.

No where in there does it say its a Pvp game, and the OP hes right though when has CCP actually listened or done anything for high sec dwellers considering the CSM has always been people from null even the ones that are supposed to be high sec dwellers are actually alts of null sec dwellers. To be honest numbers dont lie and the asshats who keep going on about that if people cant afford to pay for their subs shouldnt be playing, go ahead keep thinking like that just wait until one day CCP has to close the doors on Eve because subs are so low that they cant afford to keep it going. Whether you like it or not but the people who use plexs to keep their accounts up made up a large part of their income and as more and more people continue to leave so will a lot of the hardcore pvp players as there will be less and less "content" for them as there will be hardly anyone to shoot anymore. Instead of being asshats towards people who talk about or ask about things you have deemed to be not the way to play the game, just remember all of your actions in the game also have consequences.

Sure, that describes the setting, but here is CCP's description of what kind of game Eve Online is:

Those 7,000 star systems include high sec. Clearly, there are many carebears being dominated in high sec by elite pvpers. What sense does it make to argue against this fact? Your time would be better spent learning to deal with the basic mechanics of the game, instead of complaining about non-consensual PvP, which is a core aspect of EvE.

you know, if it really is a sandbox, some people would be 'building castles'. No one builds castles if its all PVP.

When was the last time you jumped onto a PVP ONLY game like Counter Strike server to 'build the map'?

Doesn't happen and the guy is correct, this is a SANDBOX. It's not exclusively PVP.

To think otherwise is very telling of your Philosophy (an ability to understand the World around you).

Yeah, that was the only change, right? Having several hundred simultaneous wars for less than a half-decent trader makes was always possible.

But then the wardeccers would have nowhere to hide...

The problem people awlays have with this is that there's two different definitions of PvP at work.

1. PvP = Shooting other players
and
2. PvP = all actions against another player

Market trading for example is PvP, and that's what CCP means. Some people on both side of this debate read what CCP wrote and assume they mean definition 1. Conversely on the other side people reason someone saying it's PvP (as in definition 2) and assume they are meaning definition 1.

…and that means that when that situation no longer exist, the rule outlawing it no longer applies. It's as simple as that.

Hyperdunking is not boomeranging. What's outlawed is boomeranging. The rule against boomeranging outlaws boomeranging, not something that very specifically isn't boomeranging. Suggesting otherwise is a fundamental ignorance of and confusion about what the rule actually outlawed, not to mention an absolutely demented idea of what rules are for.

WOAH WOAH WOAH!!! Time out o/7

First off, let us not start the define PvP debate all over again. Let us instead look at eve on a fundamental level and find that definition we can all agree on.

"EVE IS A HARSH PLACE"

Lets go with that, end and done. Anybody coming in should expect a fight, be it from players or NPC. If eve is revived correctly, a player should not know or care of a difference.

PvE in eve should be one thing. PvP vs the devs. The devs set up AI constructions that go out of their way to thwart you. Heck, in a perfect game, the big corps would have npcs with bad standings to the corp hunting you down. Mission running in amarr with that -10 to Blood raiders? They should be fighting harder at you.

PvE is just PvP vs Devs, therefore eve is a harsh place.

Now lets get back to the start of things. The idea of lack of counter, etc.

Why is this even an issue? Simply put, players want to min/max their builds. There is this expectation that a person must maximize to that specific task only to "win". Miners need full cargo holds and mining lasers to mine, Etc. This philosophy that a person does not or should not account for unexpected external influence. That is EVERYTHING from mission running to maximum sov warfare. Losses should be expected and part of gameplay. We should be wanting losses. I no longer have to worry about my +40m isk per clone, which for me and how I play is a significant little bit of isk that can add up quickly. Now, I can be podded as much as I want without care. I just have a clone no implants.

So, how does this relate to this topic? Well I ran corps, I worked with corps, all highsec corps. We made excellent isk mining in hulkageddons, and our large indie/pve based corp could easily and effectively counter war decs with simple planning and low SP.

Rule one, defend and just don't freaking care about getting the kill. We ran two orcas and shield/hull support in our mining ops. One orca for the shield links, the other for mining. Ta da, extremely tough tanks. This was before tiericide. We loved mining day, was a social chatting event that could also plan. We also mined in less populated systems and tended to move about. In today's eve, we would easily be able to watch local for unknowns. Oh, is some CODEduht in sys? Well, let us go do one of the many other things we enjoy.

Rule two, based off rule one. Oh, war dec, gankers, etc, we had alternatives we did. More low SP investment. that one Lvl 5 to get a tiny bit more yield is the same SP to run covertly in lowsec doing exploration. With ventures, can even mine cloakie. So what we were making less isk. We were having a hell of a lot of fun. You know what this also meant? Well one day these things called wormholes were released. So me and my miners. We knew it was going to be 0.0 without local and didn't care, we were in with a fleet right after downtime, and clearing sites. First to find a pulsar, etc. So if we got wardec? Good. We just jumpcloned to our exploration staging and off we went. War decs never came again.

Rule three, see rule one. Cannot escape or don't want to then do the following. It got me booted from a corp and as such, all other corps left the alliance. What was this piece of advice? Focus on disabling and countering, not killing. The alliance was about to cascade fail after ANOTHER war dec. People mission running etc. I logged in and saw CEO and other "main" members lost ships trying to out damage combat a pvp war dec corp.

Essentially I sent out an email saying their fits were stupid and outnumbering 6-1 should never result in a loss. I asked why were all our indie guys trying to compete vs T2 and T3 dps ships with mediocre industry T1 combat skills. I showed them very cheap EWAR and logi skills to grab and could be trained in a day. I then organized all our rookies into support forces and we did chat stuff to get it all set up and planned out. I also went, bought and fitted a mass of ships depending on what each person prefered from my recommended selection. I was covering the extremely cheap cost all things considered. The rookies knew how to protect their pods, they now had zero risks. As a lead person, it was my role to do just that, LEAD and be RESPONSIBLE for those newbs I recruit.

In meantime, I got a nice threatening mail saying once the 24h was up, I was booted from corp. I didn't care, I was concerned about a whole mass of players. Was a few hundred of us in alliance, not big, but still highsec. They were gonna quit, dispand corps, etc. No way. So suddenly, next day before my timer was up, we got into a fight. You know what? They could not kill anybody. A mass of ewar with logi just stopped them all. Us few higher combat SP players did damage, but were not concerned about getting tackles, etc. GF, war done. though instant it hit the timer, i was still booted. All the corps left the alliance over that.


TL:DR?

PvP combat is not about killmails, lossses and Killboard efficiencies. It is all about what you define as a "Win" vs other players. Highsec lifestyle is very nice and the risks are manageable. You just need to approach it with a frontier attitude. It does not take SP to defend. Do not complain if your playstyle does not work. The playstyle exists, just sometimes you need to play it different.

No it doesn't lol, and there's absolutely no way you don't realise that. Read the rule., it's simple. It doesn't say no boomeranging, it simply states that it's against the rules to warp away and return in the same timer. That someone found another way to warp about and kill people without having to wait out their 15 minutes doesn't suddenly mean it's automatically fine. The only reason hyperdunking is OK is because CCP decided to allow it.