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QUESTION : automatics "reloaded" sells orders ?

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letstrade onthemarket
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-09-21 11:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: letstrade onthemarket
hi

i dont know if others players saw this too, but sometimes when i baught all the line of the sell orders items of a player , it is instantly and automatically reoloaded ...

i can do it 3 or 4 times, i doesnt stop and it is physically impossible to do it by hand .
i saw this maybe 5 or 6 times in 18 months .

is there a way i missed fo this option ? or is it an npc player ? ( i checked everytime the pilot and it looked human )

if someone can explain me this ...

thanks
Natalie en Thielles
Midnight Oil Labor Division
#2 - 2015-09-21 18:39:54 UTC
There are often other players constantly updating their own orders. Some of them may have more than one sell order for the same item allowing them to change their orders more frequently.

You can use programs to help make it easier. Some of these are Elinor, Eve Mentat, and Evernus.
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#3 - 2015-09-22 02:47:04 UTC
Moved to Market Discussions.

ISD Decoy

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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#4 - 2015-09-22 03:13:31 UTC
letstrade onthemarket wrote:
hi

i dont know if others players saw this too, but sometimes when i baught all the line of the sell orders items of a player , it is instantly and automatically reoloaded ...

i can do it 3 or 4 times, i doesnt stop and it is physically impossible to do it by hand .
i saw this maybe 5 or 6 times in 18 months .

is there a way i missed fo this option ? or is it an npc player ? ( i checked everytime the pilot and it looked human )

if someone can explain me this ...

thanks

It's much more likely that you are buying units from a different order.

You may be clicking on one order and attempting to buy all the units from it, but the market will ignore that and take units from the top order regardless.

If you are clicking on the wrong order and attempting to clear it out, while actually taking units from a different order, it will appear as if the order you are clicking on will not die.

Alternatively, you may be buying from an NPC order which automatically refreshes. But those orders can be identified by the fact they have a duration over 90 days, which player orders cannot have.
Dethmourne Silvermane
Silvermane Holdings LTD
#5 - 2015-09-22 05:13:59 UTC
Don't forget that weird thing where orders may have expired (and be unlisted) but haven't yet been through database cleanup and so you can end up buying from an expired order that happens to be the cheapest and isn't visible. I'm not sure this happens anymore, but it used to be a thing.

Interested Party (TM)
letstrade onthemarket
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-09-22 14:53:15 UTC
Natalie en Thielles wrote:
There are often other players constantly updating their own orders. Some of them may have more than one sell order for the same item allowing them to change their orders more frequently.

You can use programs to help make it easier. Some of these are Elinor, Eve Mentat, and Evernus.




i dont think it is this, reloaded is instantly ( zero delay ) after i baught all the orders from the line and it cant be done by a pilot and all i know from the tool you spoke about dont do that
letstrade onthemarket
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-09-22 14:57:04 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
letstrade onthemarket wrote:
hi

i dont know if others players saw this too, but sometimes when i baught all the line of the sell orders items of a player , it is instantly and automatically reoloaded ...

i can do it 3 or 4 times, i doesnt stop and it is physically impossible to do it by hand .
i saw this maybe 5 or 6 times in 18 months .

is there a way i missed fo this option ? or is it an npc player ? ( i checked everytime the pilot and it looked human )

if someone can explain me this ...

thanks

It's much more likely that you are buying units from a different order.

You may be clicking on one order and attempting to buy all the units from it, but the market will ignore that and take units from the top order regardless.

If you are clicking on the wrong order and attempting to clear it out, while actually taking units from a different order, it will appear as if the order you are clicking on will not die.

Alternatively, you may be buying from an NPC order which automatically refreshes. But those orders can be identified by the fact they have a duration over 90 days, which player orders cannot have.


i thought it could be this but , i organized the sell orders by price and baught second or third sell order in the list to be sure it wasnt the same trader
after this, evry time i baught all the orders from the cheaper line, it s reloaded instantly ...
i can say too i m trading from 30 months and i just saw this 5 or 6 times ...
i dont know how it is possible
letstrade onthemarket
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-09-22 15:00:50 UTC
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
Don't forget that weird thing where orders may have expired (and be unlisted) but haven't yet been through database cleanup and so you can end up buying from an expired order that happens to be the cheapest and isn't visible. I'm not sure this happens anymore, but it used to be a thing.



i checked this too, every time i baught all the orders from this automatic line, i recepted items in my wallet so itsnt a update's trouble
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#9 - 2015-09-22 17:23:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
letstrade onthemarket wrote:
i thought it could be this but , i organized the sell orders by price and baught second or third sell order in the list to be sure it wasnt the same trader
after this, evry time i baught all the orders from the cheaper line, it s reloaded instantly ...
i can say too i m trading from 30 months and i just saw this 5 or 6 times ...
i dont know how it is possible

You cannot choose which order to buy from or sell to!

You ALWAYS buy from the lowest priced available sell order, and sell to the highest priced available buy order.

You can only choose which station when buying.

If you try to buy from a higher priced seller, you only end-up paying the lowest priced seller more ISK.

This is how a brokerage market works.
Thoraemond
Far Ranger
#10 - 2015-09-23 00:54:54 UTC
letstrade onthemarket wrote:
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
Don't forget that weird thing where orders may have expired (and be unlisted) but haven't yet been through database cleanup and so you can end up buying from an expired order that happens to be the cheapest and isn't visible. I'm not sure this happens anymore, but it used to be a thing.

i checked this too, every time i baught all the orders from this automatic line, i recepted items in my wallet so itsnt a update's trouble


Assuming there's no human error (e.g., filters on the order displayed you've forgotten about, or the like), Dethmourne's seems like the most likely explanation to me, based on my own experience with similar issues.

You say you checked this, but I am not sure how you could check for this, as a user, since the source of the problem is something that you can neither see nor (directly) interact with.

For example, if the lowest-price Sell Order on the market is for a price of 100 with 10 units, and there is an older expired order also priced at 100 but with 2000 units (which order is still in the database and matchable, but no longer displayed in-game), then it might look like you're choosing to buy from the 10-unit order, but you're actually buying from the 2000-unit order, and the 10 unit order is not being matched. The seller in your Wallet will be the pilot or corporation posting the 2000-unit order.


Alternatively, there are also a few items that are sold from NPC orders (with a duration of approximately 365 days, rather than the 90-day maximum for player orders), and NPC orders are immediately replenished. These are not player orders, though. Because you're experienced, I'm guessing you've ruled this out.

• Graph re Market Order Broker Fees (Updated 2016-04-28) • Diagram re Skills for Remote Trading •
letstrade onthemarket
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-09-23 12:11:56 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
letstrade onthemarket wrote:
i thought it could be this but , i organized the sell orders by price and baught second or third sell order in the list to be sure it wasnt the same trader
after this, evry time i baught all the orders from the cheaper line, it s reloaded instantly ...
i can say too i m trading from 30 months and i just saw this 5 or 6 times ...
i dont know how it is possible

You cannot choose which order to buy from or sell to!

You ALWAYS buy from the lowest priced available sell order, and sell to the highest priced available buy order.

You can only choose which station when buying.

If you try to buy from a higher priced seller, you only end-up paying the lowest priced seller more ISK.

This is how a brokerage market works.


absolutly !

the orders i spoke about are of course the lowest ones !
it happened to me when i baught my stuff for manufacture ( salvage items in fact) and i pointed the lowest ones, lines by lines :
it the case i spoke about , when i baught all the items of this lowest line ( 7 items for example) it was instantly reloaded several times maybe 5 , 6 times or more and sometimes unlimitless unitl i could buy the next items and checked it wasnt the same pilot
letstrade onthemarket
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-09-23 12:18:51 UTC  |  Edited by: letstrade onthemarket
Thoraemond wrote:
letstrade onthemarket wrote:
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
Don't forget that weird thing where orders may have expired (and be unlisted) but haven't yet been through database cleanup and so you can end up buying from an expired order that happens to be the cheapest and isn't visible. I'm not sure this happens anymore, but it used to be a thing.

i checked this too, every time i baught all the orders from this automatic line, i recepted items in my wallet so itsnt a update's trouble


Assuming there's no human error (e.g., filters on the order displayed you've forgotten about, or the like), Dethmourne's seems like the most likely explanation to me, based on my own experience with similar issues.

You say you checked this, but I am not sure how you could check for this, as a user, since the source of the problem is something that you can neither see nor (directly) interact with.

For example, if the lowest-price Sell Order on the market is for a price of 100 with 10 units, and there is an older expired order also priced at 100 but with 2000 units (which order is still in the database and matchable, but no longer displayed in-game), then it might look like you're choosing to buy from the 10-unit order, but you're actually buying from the 2000-unit order, and the 10 unit order is not being matched. The seller in your Wallet will be the pilot or corporation posting the 2000-unit order.


Alternatively, there are also a few items that are sold from NPC orders (with a duration of approximately 365 days, rather than the 90-day maximum for player orders), and NPC orders are immediately replenished. These are not player orders, though. Because you're experienced, I'm guessing you've ruled this out.


maybe you are right, but i m not sure to understand all you said ...
if you could make me an example of this , i ll pay for it, of course ,it would help me cause i d like to understand

for the npc orders, i dont think so , unless you cant see the difference in the journal after ( the pilots who made this had an employement's history with differents corp and birth's date )

anyway, thanks for yours explanations i have to think about
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#13 - 2015-09-23 14:17:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
This is a mock screenshot I have made to try and explain it.

The top order is expired and will not display on the market screen for players, but it is not actually removed from the market until the next downtime, so it can still be purchased from with buy orders.

http://i.imgur.com/NSbRwhO.png

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letstrade onthemarket
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-09-23 15:33:23 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
This is a mock screenshot I have made to try and explain it.

The top order is expired and will not display on the market screen for players, but it is not actually removed from the market until the next downtime, so it can still be purchased from with buy orders.

http://i.imgur.com/NSbRwhO.png



thanks for your explanation but itsnt this case : time expiration isnt over for this line of orders and when you buy it , your wallet is incremented ( i checked this )
but thanks
Alexi Stokov
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-09-23 15:46:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexi Stokov
Are there multiple orders listed at the same price? You might be selecting the "top" order but the items come from the 2nd or 3rd order because they were put up first
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#16 - 2015-09-23 15:52:46 UTC
The order that you are actually buying from has expired and is invisible. Even if you click a different order you are still buying from the invisible one.

Do me a favour and buy one item from the order I've marked with a red arrow and box in the following screenshot.

http://i.imgur.com/hGwdt1H.png

Eifyr and Co. 'Alchemist' Gas Harvesting GH-801

Then take a screenshot of your market window and post it here.

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Jdestars
Stars Research systems Incorporation
#17 - 2015-09-24 11:45:21 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
This is a mock screenshot I have made to try and explain it.

The top order is expired and will not display on the market screen for players, but it is not actually removed from the market until the next downtime, so it can still be purchased from with buy orders.

http://i.imgur.com/NSbRwhO.png


dont forget this point when you check a item price windows its database request .. the result are not refresh

and result are store in your side client game .. some time , error with refresh cach are occured
letstrade onthemarket
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-09-25 06:34:12 UTC
Alexi Stokov wrote:
Are there multiple orders listed at the same price? You might be selecting the "top" order but the items come from the 2nd or 3rd order because they were put up first

done of course, lines are selected by prices lowest to hightest
letstrade onthemarket
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-09-25 06:41:20 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
The order that you are actually buying from has expired and is invisible. Even if you click a different order you are still buying from the invisible one.

Do me a favour and buy one item from the order I've marked with a red arrow and box in the following screenshot.

http://i.imgur.com/hGwdt1H.png

Eifyr and Co. 'Alchemist' Gas Harvesting GH-801

Then take a screenshot of your market window and post it here.


i did ( first i needed to buy first line , the lowest one it has one item left )
and nothing hapened, when i baught it, number of items is going down ..
letstrade onthemarket
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-09-25 06:43:59 UTC
Jdestars wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
This is a mock screenshot I have made to try and explain it.

The top order is expired and will not display on the market screen for players, but it is not actually removed from the market until the next downtime, so it can still be purchased from with buy orders.

http://i.imgur.com/NSbRwhO.png


dont forget this point when you check a item price windows its database request .. the result are not refresh

and result are store in your side client game .. some time , error with refresh cach are occured



i perfecly know this ,i had to wait few seconds or to buy another one to refresh
but itsnt the point : when i buy all the items of the lowest line, when it refresh there is still the same numbers of items and if i buy its again my wallet is incremented
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