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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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Notice: Investgation and Prize Item Freeze for Teams in ATXIII

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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#201 - 2015-09-22 09:46:03 UTC
Captain Thunk wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:

What I say on Joe when it's all fun and games and nobody is taking anything seriously is one thing. But once a whole host of monkeys start flinging their faeces in my direction, spreading lies and propaganda and making a fairly concerted effort to have me and all my friends banned then a more serious and considered response is justified.

I'm sure you can understand the distinction.

Yeah, I can understand that and it's fine.

We'll just pencil it in as another troll that backfired.

And this time, you'd even be right.
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#202 - 2015-09-22 10:05:33 UTC
Your whole argument revolves around 'but honestly we didnt KNOW CCP would get upset that we fixed their entire tournament with outbreak! Our cheating wasnt technically against the rules, why are you holding it against us it's not fair we just want to play the game you guys. You guys?' :Cartman:

Nobody is that dense. Give it up. You goofed, now you're scared youre gonna get banned for real. Nothing you will say now will change the outcome of the verdict, and you're just making it worse trying to absolve yourself of any guilt.

Why is it so difficult to say okay we ****** up, it will never happen again, we will try and profit from the tournament through honest means in the future?
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#203 - 2015-09-22 10:28:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Bobby
Mr Rive wrote:
Your whole argument revolves around 'but honestly we didnt KNOW CCP would get upset that we fixed their entire tournament with outbreak! Our cheating wasnt technically against the rules, why are you holding it against us it's not fair we just want to play the game you guys. You guys?' :Cartman:

Nobody is that dense. Give it up. You goofed, now you're scared youre gonna get banned for real. Nothing you will say now will change the outcome of the verdict, and you're just making it worse trying to absolve yourself of any guilt.

Why is it so difficult to say okay we ****** up, it will never happen again, we will try and profit from the tournament through honest means in the future?

Rive, I don't expect you to read everything I've posted.

But please, don't pretend that it can all be summed up with a few sentences that point in the total opposite direction to everything I stand for in the game.

If the final of ATIX had gone the way we had planned, which it absolutely did not, none of this would have happened. Unfortunately we were nowhere near as good at fixing AT matches as we thought we were and the whole thing turned in to the most embarrassing farce.

It wasn't against the rules, be it technically or otherwise. Put it in italics or bold if you want. But it certainly screwed up a whole lot of things and I'm personally very sorry that it went that way.

I'm not scared that I'll be banned btw. Because even if Kadesh fixed every match in the AT while simultaneously posting **** sandwiches to every CCP staffer it would never come back on me.

We certainly ****** up in ATIX, but to say it will never happen again is not within my power.

I will not be planning to profit from the AT, or anything else, by purely honest means because that's just not the game I play. But I have never and will never break AT rules.
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
Alliance. Now. Please.
#204 - 2015-09-22 10:30:15 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:

If the final of ATIX had gone the way we had planned, which it absolutely did not, none of this would have happened. Unfortunately we were nowhere near as good at fixing AT matches as we thought we were and the whole thing turned in to the most embarrassing farce.


Seems practice isn't making perfect.

Are we meant to be looking forward to the day Hydra finally perfects their AT match fixing technique?
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
Alliance. Now. Please.
#205 - 2015-09-22 10:31:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Thunk
I'm being harsh, sorry for that.

Hydra would have gotten away with fixing matches this year if DHB Wildcat hadn't blabbed.

So Hydra are pretty good at match fixing after a few years practice.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#206 - 2015-09-22 10:35:53 UTC
Captain Thunk wrote:
Are we meant to be looking forward to the day Hydra finally perfects their AT match fixing technique?
I'm not sure that would be in your own interests.

At the moment our problems seem to be more HR related anyway.
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#207 - 2015-09-22 10:40:15 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
Your whole argument revolves around 'but honestly we didnt KNOW CCP would get upset that we fixed their entire tournament with outbreak! Our cheating wasnt technically against the rules, why are you holding it against us it's not fair we just want to play the game you guys. You guys?' :Cartman:

Nobody is that dense. Give it up. You goofed, now you're scared youre gonna get banned for real. Nothing you will say now will change the outcome of the verdict, and you're just making it worse trying to absolve yourself of any guilt.

Why is it so difficult to say okay we ****** up, it will never happen again, we will try and profit from the tournament through honest means in the future?


If the final of ATIX had gone the way we had planned, which it absolutely did not, none of this would have happened. Unfortunately we were nowhere near as good at fixing AT matches as we thought we were and the whole thing turned in to the most embarrassing farce.

We certainly ****** up in ATIX, but to say it will never happen again is not within my power.



And now we come to it. 'We fixed matches, we're not as good at it as we thought. We thought we had gotten better at it, but we ****** up again, I regret that we ****** up, it was a real shame, not that we fixed the matches, but that we ****** up'

Do you really think continuing on this line is going to gain you ANY support?

As I said a couple of pages ago, the best thing for you to do now is admit you screwed up again, and try and salvage as much from this as you can, so kadesh can try and find a way to fix it again next year.

You really can't win this one, no matter how hard you try to spin it.
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
Alliance. Now. Please.
#208 - 2015-09-22 10:44:23 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Captain Thunk wrote:
Are we meant to be looking forward to the day Hydra finally perfects their AT match fixing technique?
I'm not sure that would be in your own interests.

At the moment our problems seem to be more HR related anyway.


If only Hydra just did what the other 62 teams manage to do year in, year out, I think you'd find all your problems disappearing - yet again, you think it isn't your fault. It really is a problem entirely of your own creation.

I don't recall any scandals involving other teams, it's literally just Hydra. it's a shame I seem to have failed to get you to see that.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#209 - 2015-09-22 10:53:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth Feld
Bad Bobby wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
Your whole argument revolves around 'but honestly we didnt KNOW CCP would get upset that we fixed their entire tournament with outbreak! Our cheating wasnt technically against the rules, why are you holding it against us it's not fair we just want to play the game you guys. You guys?' :Cartman:

Nobody is that dense. Give it up. You goofed, now you're scared youre gonna get banned for real. Nothing you will say now will change the outcome of the verdict, and you're just making it worse trying to absolve yourself of any guilt.

Why is it so difficult to say okay we ****** up, it will never happen again, we will try and profit from the tournament through honest means in the future?

Rive, I don't expect you to read everything I've posted.

But please, don't pretend that it can all be summed up with a few sentences that point in the total opposite direction to everything I stand for in the game.

If the final of ATIX had gone the way we had planned, which it absolutely did not, none of this would have happened. Unfortunately we were nowhere near as good at fixing AT matches as we thought we were and the whole thing turned in to the most embarrassing farce.

It wasn't against the rules, be it technically or otherwise. Put it in italics or bold if you want. But it certainly screwed up a whole lot of things and I'm personally very sorry that it went that way.

I'm not scared that I'll be banned btw. Because even if Kadesh fixed every match in the AT while simultaneously posting **** sandwiches to every CCP staffer it would never come back on me.

We certainly ****** up in ATIX, but to say it will never happen again is not within my power.

I will not be planning to profit from the AT, or anything else, by purely honest means because that's just not the game I play. But I have never and will never break AT rules.



LOL, by ATXX you might be good enough so it all looks legit is what you are saying.....
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#210 - 2015-09-22 10:57:32 UTC
Mr Rive wrote:
Do you really think continuing on this line is going to gain you ANY support?

You of all people are in no place to lecture me on effective PR.

Mr Rive wrote:
You really can't win this one, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

I'm sorry Rive, you seem to have forgotten that we did win this one.
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#211 - 2015-09-22 11:00:55 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
Do you really think continuing on this line is going to gain you ANY support?

You of all people are in no place to lecture me on effective PR.

Mr Rive wrote:
You really can't win this one, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

I'm sorry Rive, you seem to have forgotten that we did win this one.


First off, whose 'we'? I thought warlords and CAMEL were the finalists, not hydra. Didnt hydra get banned for fixing matches like you just said they did?

Second, you 'won' AT IX too, and that turned out great for you in the long run, didnt it?
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
Alliance. Now. Please.
#212 - 2015-09-22 11:03:37 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
Do you really think continuing on this line is going to gain you ANY support?

You of all people are in no place to lecture me on effective PR.

Mr Rive wrote:
You really can't win this one, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

I'm sorry Rive, you seem to have forgotten that we did win this one.


No man, you've lost.

You literally said that Hydra's fixed matches but didn't do it well enough while simultaneously saying wildcat is a liar with his logs and you haven't fixed matches despite his reputation that he's built over many years. If you still think he's trolling, then I for one would love to hear CCPs reaction when they find out their time and resources are being wasted.


You have to admit, it really does look quite bad for Hydra and yes, you've defended as best you can with many long posts I'm afraid I didn't have time to read, but you've had so little to work with.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#213 - 2015-09-22 11:08:15 UTC
Mr Rive wrote:
First off, whose 'we'? I thought warlords and CAMEL were the finalists, not hydra.

Make up your mind Rive, are we all the same group or not?

Mr Rive wrote:
Didnt hydra get banned for fixing matches like you just said they did?

No. HYDRA never got banned from anything for fixing matches.

We got excluded from ATX because we entered HYDRA and Outbreak and CCP ruled them ineligible to compete in that tournament. The rules and CCP's philosophy had changed between ATIX and ATX. That left us on the wrong side of the line without any time to change our course.

Mr Rive wrote:
Second, you 'won' AT IX too, and that turned out great for you in the long run, didnt it?

It did actually, but it wasn't without it's issues, as I've already explained.
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
Alliance. Now. Please.
#214 - 2015-09-22 11:15:41 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:

Mr Rive wrote:
Didnt hydra get banned for fixing matches like you just said they did?

No. HYDRA never got banned from anything for fixing matches.

We got excluded from ATX because we entered HYDRA and Outbreak and CCP ruled them ineligible to compete in that tournament. The rules and CCP's philosophy had changed between ATIX and ATX. That left us on the wrong side of the line without any time to change our course.

You said yourself that Hydra was victim of CCPs rulings. It's pretty clear that they intentionally found a way to exclude Hydra precisely because of the final the year before that Hydra ruined by badly staging the fight. You admitted as much yourself.

That was the warning. The, "hey, yeah, don't ever do that again moment". I'm not sure why you haven't realised that and done it again this year. Maybe CCP have to explicitly tell the Hydra teams in clear language, like the rules.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#215 - 2015-09-22 11:19:26 UTC
Captain Thunk wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
You really can't win this one, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

I'm sorry Rive, you seem to have forgotten that we did win this one.
No man, you've lost.

Citation?

Captain Thunk wrote:
You literally said that Hydra's fixed matches but didn't do it well enough while simultaneously saying wildcat is a liar with his logs and you haven't fixed matches despite his reputation that he's built over many years.

No.

I said we fixed matches when it was legal to do so.

I said we stopped fixing matches when it ceased to be legal to do so. CCP made it pretty clear on this point so we weren't really left in any doubt.

I haven't said Wildcat is a liar at all. I've made it quite clear that I don't know the truth of the matter. Just reading his posts, I feel he was just throwing a hissy fit. Even if it turns out to be all lies, I think he has extenuating circumstances that would prevent me from calling him a plain liar.

Captain Thunk wrote:
If you still think he's trolling, then I for one would love to hear CCPs reaction when they find out their time and resources are being wasted.

I don't think he's trolling now, because I've had time to investigate it all further. But that was certainly my first instinct having read his post. Now I think he's just upset and behaving irrationally.

But yeah, I doubt CCP is going to be happy with this whole situation no matter how their investigation ends.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#216 - 2015-09-22 11:24:40 UTC
Captain Thunk wrote:
You have to admit, it really does look quite bad for Hydra

No. If CCP comes back with a verdict against us, then it might look bad for HYDRA. In the meantime, this is just a bunch of people shooting the **** about AT drama.

Captain Thunk wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
Didnt hydra get banned for fixing matches like you just said they did?
No. HYDRA never got banned from anything for fixing matches.

We got excluded from ATX because we entered HYDRA and Outbreak and CCP ruled them ineligible to compete in that tournament. The rules and CCP's philosophy had changed between ATIX and ATX. That left us on the wrong side of the line without any time to change our course.

You said yourself that Hydra was victim of CCPs rulings. It's pretty clear that they intentionally found a way to exclude Hydra precisely because of the final the year before that Hydra ruined by badly staging the fight. You admitted as much yourself.

I think they changed the rules and their philosophy for that reason.

I think they excluded one of my teams and your Waffle bros due to that rule change.

I think they excluded my other team (and not your PL bros) as vengeance for the badly staged final in ATIX.

I made that all pretty clear in my previous post that you are referencing.

Captain Thunk wrote:
That was the warning. The, "hey, yeah, don't ever do that again moment". I'm not sure why you haven't realised that and done it again this year. Maybe CCP have to explicitly tell the Hydra teams in clear language, like the rules.

I'm sorry but that is all predicated on the idea that we actually broke the rules this year. Which is something you've confirmed is unknown to both of us.
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
Alliance. Now. Please.
#217 - 2015-09-22 11:26:20 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Captain Thunk wrote:
No man, you've lost.

Citation?


Scroll up, it's the bit where you basically say "We f****d up fixing matches, sorry you guys noticed, it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the rules getting in the way - CCP need to fix that"
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
Alliance. Now. Please.
#218 - 2015-09-22 11:32:38 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:

I'm sorry but that is all predicated on the idea that we actually broke the rules this year. Which is something you've confirmed is unknown to both of us.


Listening to your sketchy defence and DHB Wildcats post, I can't help but feel it's looking like this did all happen.

Basically you're down to saying that Wildcat must have had a mental breakdown because that's literally the only thing that can plausibly explain the events of the last week. That's a desperate argument.

I would be extremely surprised if other AT members from one of Hydra's heads haven't seen whats coming and confessed what they know to save themselves. They all know it's only going to take a few out of a pool of what 30? 40? and they aren't going to want to be the ones that end up carrying the can. Truth always outs as you've been eloquently demonstrating during the course of this thread.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#219 - 2015-09-22 11:33:45 UTC
Captain Thunk wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
Captain Thunk wrote:
No man, you've lost.

Citation?

Scroll up, it's the bit where you basically say "We f****d up fixing matches, sorry you guys noticed, it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the rules getting in the way - CCP need to fix that"

I didn't say that, basically or otherwise.

I think I've been pretty clear on this, so if you aren't understanding me after all this posting then there isn't much more I can do for you.

Either way, I don't see how the statements of a HYDRA member that wasn't involved in this AT in any capacity other than as a spectator would make any difference to Warlords or Camel winning or losing the AT.
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
Alliance. Now. Please.
#220 - 2015-09-22 11:35:22 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:


Either way, I don't see how the statements of a HYDRA member that wasn't involved in this AT in any capacity other than as a spectator would make any difference to Warlords or Camel winning or losing the AT.


So you're now backpeddling and saying you have no clue as you're not involved in any capacity.