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Breaking war-dec's. Questions and a small rant :)

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Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#21 - 2015-09-22 02:21:00 UTC
I used to complain a whole bunch about imbalances and I still get cranky from time to time, but you are playing other people in EVE.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Roney Strongarm
Caldari Security
#22 - 2015-09-22 02:32:49 UTC
Look I'm not asking for sympathy from the community. I literally stated right off the bat that I expected this post to come under a lot of hate and for the most part, that has happened. And for the most part, you are all PVP'ers.

The point is, it's extremely difficult to get off the ground in this game. For new players entering the game, they quickly learn that when their ship gets blown up, it isn't replaced. This shy's a LOT of people from wanting to PVP. then they join a high sec corp, which back in the old days was a fairly easy thing to do. Sure war dec's happened. And that's fine. But they were few and far between

However things have changed. It's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to run a high sec corp without getting several wardecs. There are more and more mercorps out there just waiting to sink their teeth into carebears. The hate these days is extreme.

I'm still waiting on an answer to my main question.

What can I and what can I NOT do in terms of breaking/disbanning a corp in order to clear up a wardec. I have been told that disbanning and reforming a corp is a bannable offence, since it's "abusing the game mechanics". I'm still waiting on an answer to this.

And you people for the most part have it wrong. Most players who PVE have dreams of one day getting into PVP. However wardecs make that happen sooner than they are ready for. Most newer players (under 20 mil SP) don't have the hardware or the skills to go up against the highly skilled and experienced players in this game. EVE has been around for a very long time and it's harder and harder to compete.

So if gankers and pirates are literally allowed to ABUSE the mechanics of the game, why can I not abuse them also? People are allowed to scam and gank with no reprocussions. Why can't I scam the corp that's wardeccing by disbanning and then reforming a corp? Why is the PVE player not allowed to abuse the mechanics of the game and yet the PVP player is?

So really, the point to this post is to yes rant, but also ask the question. And the question isn't being answered. Your solution so far has been "join an NPC corp'. That's not the point of forming a corp. A proper corp is to find a community of players that have the same ideas as you. The same ideals. The same type of needs as far as the gameplay of EVE goes.

Can someone please understand what I'm asking here and give me an answer?
Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-09-22 02:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Dradis Aulmais
Since you fail to site one valid source to you accusations I must declared you a ranting loony and request this thread to be locked.

Also if you hate it so much can I have your stuff

If you have a question as to what you can and can't do open a sport ticket

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-09-22 02:44:13 UTC
Dradis Aulmais wrote:
Since you fail to site one valid source to you accusations I must declared you a ranting loony and request this thread to be locked.

Also if you hate it so much

Can I have your stuff?


Noo.... No lock. Once have access to a real keyboard, will be giving a real answer.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#25 - 2015-09-22 02:45:19 UTC
Roney Strongarm wrote:
Look I'm not asking for sympathy from the community. I literally stated right off the bat that I expected this post to come under a lot of hate and for the most part, that has happened. And for the most part, you are all PVP'ers.

The point is, it's extremely difficult to get off the ground in this game.

The counter-point is that almost everything you said was misinformed or just flat out wrong. Especially the part about all PvPers.

Quote:
What can I and what can I NOT do in terms of breaking/disbanning a corp in order to clear up a wardec. I have been told that disbanning and reforming a corp is a bannable offence, since it's "abusing the game mechanics". I'm still waiting on an answer to this.

You are entirely free to nuke your own corp at any time for any reason.

Quote:
Most newer players (under 20 mil SP) don't have the hardware or the skills to go up against the highly skilled and experienced players in this game.

Yes they do. What they lack is competent leadership and co-ordination, which is what the corp should provide. If it doesn't or can't, it has no reason to exist.

Quote:
So if gankers and pirates are literally allowed to ABUSE the mechanics of the game

They're not.
Paranoid Loyd
#26 - 2015-09-22 02:49:46 UTC
Roney Strongarm wrote:
Can someone please understand what I'm asking here and give me an answer?
We can't answer a question that refuses to acknowledge the reality of the game. Once you understand that in order to have something in EVE, you need to protect it or it will be taken away then you will understand why your question is not being answered.

The other obvious solution to your "problem" is to not have your own corp but join one that is established.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#27 - 2015-09-22 02:51:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Roney Strongarm wrote:
What can I and what can I NOT do in terms of breaking/disbanning a corp in order to clear up a wardec. I have been told that disbanning and reforming a corp is a bannable offence, since it's "abusing the game mechanics". I'm still waiting on an answer to this.
Disbanding and reforming a corp to avoid a wardec is not a bannable offence at the moment.

Quote:
So if gankers and pirates are literally allowed to ABUSE the mechanics of the game, why can I not abuse them also? People are allowed to scam and gank with no reprocussions. Why can't I scam the corp that's wardeccing by disbanning and then reforming a corp? Why is the PVE player not allowed to abuse the mechanics of the game and yet the PVP player is?
Gankers, pirates and merc corps aren't abusing the game mechanics, if they were they would be getting banned left, right and centre. A PvE corp is allowed to disband and reform to avoid a wardec, as above, this is not a bannable offence.

If you're forming a PvE corp it may be serve you well to strike up an association with some PvPers for some form of protection or training in how not to be a victim.

As I said earlier in the thread, safety is your responsibility, if you can't be arsed to look into how to protect yourself that's entirely on you.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-09-22 03:09:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Dradis Aulmais
It took me a while to find this agian didnt think i would have to use it.

CCP Falcon wrote:





Okay, so what follows is entirely my personal opinion.

It's not a case of not "catering to the tearfilled entitled", it's a case of us staying true to the core of what EVE was built on.

Some of the people complaining in this thread have valid points about the fact that they don't feel safe. Simple fact of the matter is, that you're not suppose to feel safe in New Eden.

Eve is not a game for the faint hearted. It's a game that will chew you up and spit you out in the blink of an eye if you even think about letting your guard down or becoming complacent.

While every other MMO starts off with an intro that tells you you're going to be the savior of the realm, holds your hand, protects you, nurtures your development and ultimately guides you to your destiny as a hero along with several other million players who've had the exact same experience, EVE assaults you from the second you begin to play after you create a character, spitting you out into a universe that under the surface, is so complex that it's enough to make your head explode.

The entire design is based around being harsh, vicious, relentless, hostile and cold. It's about action and reaction, and the story that unfolds as you experience these two things.

True, we're working hard to lower the bar of entry so that more players can enjoy EVE and can get into the game. Our NPE (New Player Experience) is challenging, and we're trying to improve it to better prepare rookies for what lies out there, but when you start to play eve, you'll always start out as the little fish in the big pond.

The only way to grow is to voraciously consume what's around you, and its your choice whether that happens to be New Eden's abundant natural resources, or the other people who're also fighting their way to the top.

EVE is a playing experience like no other, where every action or reaction resonates through a single universe and is felt by players from all corners of the word. There are no shards here, no mirror universes, no instances and very few rules. If you stumble across something valuable, then chances are someone else already knows where you are, or is working their way toward you and you better be prepared to fight for what you've discovered.

EVE will test you from the outset, from the very second you undock and glimpse the stars, and will take pleasure from sorting those who can survive from those who'd rather curl up and perish.

EVE will let you fight until you collapse, then let you struggle to your feet, exhausted from the effort. Then when you can see the light at the end of the tunnel it'll kick you flat on your ass in the mud again and ask you why you deserve to be standing. It'll test you against every other individual playing at some point or another, and it'll ask for answers.

Give it an answer and maybe it'll let you up again, long enough to gather your thoughts. After a few more steps you're on the ground again and it's asking more questions.

EVE is designed to be harsh, it's designed to be challenging, and it's designed to be so deep and complex that it should fascinate and terrify you at the same time.

Corporation, Alliances and coalitions of tens of thousands have risen and fallen on these basic principles, and every one of those thousands of people has their own unique story to tell about how it affected them and what they experienced.

That's the beauty of EVE. Action and reaction. Emergence.

Welcome to the most frightening virtual playground you'll ever experience.


In this Thread from another person like you The Quoted post

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-09-22 03:14:31 UTC
Nothing you can do in regards of a war dec is a bannable offense in EvE - or better to say "nothing that's a bug abuse can get you banned".

If you get war decced, let's say, because you have a pos, you can tear down the pos in the 24h grace time and put it up again when the war is over; to put a tiny dampen on this, ccp made it so a corp needs to be 7 days old to deploy a pos.
You can drop your corp and join another, you can actually en-mass drop corp and join another containing the same people as before, and that wont make you banned. You cannot change corp, you have to quit the corp and then join another, and it's not a bug abuse.
What you cannot do, but just because the game doesn't allow it with a clear error message, it's the transfer of a poco ownership after you get war decced, even during the grace period.

You might want to split your alts in two corps, or at least have an alt in an inconspicuous corp to redeploy your pos asap, and have at least one neutral (npc corp alt) for hauling and general logistic (neutral repping alts).

The error most people do is to consider high sec as the bearland, where people are shielded from brutal pvp, actually high sec is as dangerous as any other space, just it has a number of tiny rules to respect before making proper engagements. Also the high density of population in most of high sec make picking target easy, mainly because in high sec you cannot avoid to feel safe behind concord, which is not true, and once the bureaucracy of the engagement is done, you are alone with your war dec.

Also for the people that said "i used my dread in empire", you might want to clarify you used your dread in low sec empire, which is low sec, not empire. Empire is high sec, and caps are not allowed in high sec. And not having dreads in empire is what's really protecting pos and poco from a daily grind, not the war decs mechanics. An online medium pos with hardeners takes hours to grind even in battleship / battlecruisers, same with pocos, and for what? If you go bash an online pos in empire you must be sure it's worth your time, both in drop and killmail, otherwise grab your catalyst and go gank some machinaws, it's faster, get you better killmail and a full machinaw can contain up to 15mil isk of ores, which doesn't hurt to steal since you are at it.

To conclude from my first hand experience, do what you can do avoid empire wars, they are often one sided battles as you lack the intel and the coordination to put up a proper defense, and you got war decced probably you got deemed to be an easy target, and probably you are if you live in empire and you don't pvp war dec newbye corps or gank stuff in catalysts. In null the enemy is a bit more clear, you have intels, FC, roams and in game chat channels, and you are actually prepared doctrine wise and ship wise to pvp.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-09-22 03:18:27 UTC
Dreads are allowed in highsec only if the owner had them there before the change, I thought? And they are prohibited from using them, hence the necessity of using BS for POS bashing.

With respect to actual gameplay, they are not allowed in highsec.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#31 - 2015-09-22 03:24:51 UTC
Roberta Gastoni wrote:

Also for the people that said "i used my dread in empire", you might want to clarify you used your dread in low sec empire, which is low sec, not empire.

Lowest is empire space. Anything that is under empire sovereignty is empire space — this means (almost) everything except nullsec.

So no clarification needed; they used their dreads in empire space.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2015-09-22 03:31:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Roberta Gastoni wrote:

Also for the people that said "i used my dread in empire", you might want to clarify you used your dread in low sec empire, which is low sec, not empire.

Lowest is empire space. Anything that is under empire sovereignty is empire space — this means (almost) everything except nullsec.

So no clarification needed; they used their dreads in empire space.


Pretty sure OP is discussing highsec, based on the whole of his remarks. I think you're clever enough to recognize that. No need to play semantics games.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-09-22 03:37:48 UTC
To the larger discussion -

Highsec is chock full of bored bittervets and their alts (99% of wardec corps and gankers) looking for easy content (people who have no knowledge of the game beyond lasering rocks and levelling their mission boat.) If you are trying to run a corp of any size without a full understanding of both the game and the meta-game, you are easy content and any new or casual player who joins is being led like a lamb to slaughter. If you don't want to contend with PvP, drop to an NPC corp or run a low key one max tax shelter and roll corp/log off when wardecced. If you want to actually build a real corporation and lead others, you need to learn to survive in the present environment.

It is true that highsec industrial corps serve no purpose other than to be targets, and that is something which needs to be addressed.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#34 - 2015-09-22 03:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Pretty sure OP is discussing highsec, based on the whole of his remarks. I think you're clever enough to recognize that. No need to play semantics games.

Maybe, but then he should say “highsec”, not “empire” — they are not synonymous. He should also not use the dichotomy of empire and null over and over, since if he really means highsec, it's actually a polychotomy between null, low, high (and possibly w-space if you want to see it as separate from null).

He chose “empire ”; this made his claim incorrect.
Tisiphone Dira
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2015-09-22 04:12:45 UTC
I'm not a fan of long rambling incoherent nonsense rants.

Your accusation that we war decers and gankers routinely abuse mechanics has just earnt you a spot on the red pen list.

I would like an apology and retraction, we didn't claim that your idea was abuse, why would you not extend your opponents the same courtesy, except that you are blinded by your irrational hate?

There once was a ganker named tisi

A stunningly beautiful missy

To gank a gross miner

There is nothing finer, cept when they get all pissy
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2015-09-22 05:07:58 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Dreads are allowed in highsec only if the owner had them there before the change, I thought? And they are prohibited from using them, hence the necessity of using BS for POS bashing.

With respect to actual gameplay, they are not allowed in highsec.


Well you can mine with one, Cribba did for ages.

You cannot legally obtain one though. If someone with an existing grandfathered highsec cap wants to sell it they need to move it out of highsec first.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2015-09-22 08:16:47 UTC
Tisiphone Dira wrote:
I'm not a fan of long rambling incoherent nonsense rants.

Your accusation that we war decers and gankers routinely abuse mechanics has just earnt you a spot on the red pen list.

I would like an apology and retraction, we didn't claim that your idea was abuse, why would you not extend your opponents the same courtesy, except that you are blinded by your irrational hate?


So...is Globby still solo-hyperdunking freighters while tanking CONCORD with shuttle spam? Only took CCP about a week to put a stop to that, but I imagine he's hard at working looking for new loopholes.
o0kaboom0o
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2015-09-22 08:18:09 UTC
If you want start playing the real Eve you should leave high sec and figure out it is ****. High sec is the place where you stay the first weeks. So please continue to nerf it CCP. Thanks.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#39 - 2015-09-22 09:30:59 UTC
Yockerbow wrote:
EVE is a PVP game; deal with it.
It's sad that people like you say this yet don't understand what it actually means. It doesn't for example mean "Everything should be easier for people who wish to blow other people up with lasers". PvP comes in many forms, and if the only focus of CCP is catering to the "elite" neckbeards that go after easy kills to buff their killboards, then the game will run into serious problems.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Roney Strongarm
Caldari Security
#40 - 2015-09-22 11:24:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Roney Strongarm
Tisiphone Dira wrote:
I'm not a fan of long rambling incoherent nonsense rants.

Your accusation that we war decers and gankers routinely abuse mechanics has just earnt you a spot on the red pen list.

I would like an apology and retraction, we didn't claim that your idea was abuse, why would you not extend your opponents the same courtesy, except that you are blinded by your irrational hate?


Ok, here's one for you. So you are in a ship, you get attacked. You jump ship, the target lock breaks. Now you are in a pod and while the opponent is trying to lock you, you jump into another ship. The whole time you are engaged.

This isn't a mechanic, it's an exploit. And when CCP was brought to its attention they said this:

"We didn't mean for this to be a mechanic, but it's an unforseen part of the game. If it's there, then feel free to use it with no consequence from us."

Basically:

"Go ahead PVP'ers, nuke them".

Is that the evidence you are looking for? There are other types of uses of "exploits" going on. It's not an accusation, it's a reality. You don't need to go getting all bent up over it. We all use exploits in some way or another, even mission runners.

What I sad is not so much a "I'm accusing you therefore you are a D-bag". What I'm saying is "If you can do it, why can't I?"