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Machariel combat tactics in PvE

Author
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#21 - 2015-09-21 14:23:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Ginger Longrun wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Ginger Longrun wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:

I probably wouldn't recommend that fit as a marauder does it better, safer and the fit isn't really working towards the Machs strengths.



You are wrong - mach does it better and this fit uses machs streghts to the max

Factually, no I am not wrong as one of the Machs strengths (A role bonus in fact) is it's increased base warp speed. This means warp speed rigs increase its warp speed by more than what these rigs would increase on another BS hull. Additionally warp speed implants will also have a bigger effect.

Since your time in warp is in fact the majority of time you will spend blitzing lv4s, this has a far greater effect on how good the ship is for lv4s than DPS so it's probably one of the biggest strengths of the hull. Since the ship is using Polarized it (apparently?) needs the cap rigs to keep the repper running or else it dies due to no resists.

Thus the fit does not work towards the Mach's strengths.


It warps faster than a marauder with warp implants, does way more dps what are you talking about? it can beat any ship in mission completion time overall

I agree with you on warp rigs - I think I could swap a rig for a t2 warp rig and see how that goes - never tought of that

The problem with only quoting part of a post :)

While yes, the Mach is better than marauders for running (specifically blitzing) lv4 missions due to a combination of warp speed, MWD speed and range/application with ACs, my point was that marauders are a better platform to use if you want to use Polarized weapons.

The Mach is not as well suited for Polarized weapons as Marauders specifically because of the bling you have to run and the lack of resists amplifying it as a gank magnet and the loss of warp speed rigs (either go all 3 or don't bother).

Basically a marauder will out do a Mach in something like say, Blockade. But then Blockade is not normally on the list of blitzable missions. A blitzing Mach will still make more isk than a ship doing 1500 of the correct type of dps running Blockade. The reason for that is warp speed, mostly. Once you understand that you will understand why PvE Machariels are fit the way they are and flown the way they are. Just up to you if you like that sort fo thing or not.

Besides, it's just as easy tog et over 1500 dps on a vargur as it is on a Mach

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Ginger Longrun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2015-09-21 15:44:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginger Longrun
Anize Oramara wrote:
Ginger Longrun wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Ginger Longrun wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:

I probably wouldn't recommend that fit as a marauder does it better, safer and the fit isn't really working towards the Machs strengths.



You are wrong - mach does it better and this fit uses machs streghts to the max

Factually, no I am not wrong as one of the Machs strengths (A role bonus in fact) is it's increased base warp speed. This means warp speed rigs increase its warp speed by more than what these rigs would increase on another BS hull. Additionally warp speed implants will also have a bigger effect.

Since your time in warp is in fact the majority of time you will spend blitzing lv4s, this has a far greater effect on how good the ship is for lv4s than DPS so it's probably one of the biggest strengths of the hull. Since the ship is using Polarized it (apparently?) needs the cap rigs to keep the repper running or else it dies due to no resists.

Thus the fit does not work towards the Mach's strengths.


It warps faster than a marauder with warp implants, does way more dps what are you talking about? it can beat any ship in mission completion time overall

I agree with you on warp rigs - I think I could swap a rig for a t2 warp rig and see how that goes - never tought of that

The problem with only quoting part of a post :)

While yes, the Mach is better than marauders for running (specifically blitzing) lv4 missions due to a combination of warp speed, MWD speed and range/application with ACs, my point was that marauders are a better platform to use if you want to use Polarized weapons.

The Mach is not as well suited for Polarized weapons as Marauders specifically because of the bling you have to run and the lack of resists amplifying it as a gank magnet and the loss of warp speed rigs (either go all 3 or don't bother).

Basically a marauder will out do a Mach in something like say, Blockade. But then Blockade is not normally on the list of blitzable missions. A blitzing Mach will still make more isk than a ship doing 1500 of the correct type of dps running Blockade. The reason for that is warp speed, mostly. Once you understand that you will understand why PvE Machariels are fit the way they are and flown the way they are. Just up to you if you like that sort fo thing or not.

Besides, it's just as easy tog et over 1500 dps on a vargur as it is on a Mach


Dont forget the dps from 2 geckos if you want to talk dps

there is nothing vargur does better compared to the machariel but you keep insisting. only argument you bring to the table is being a gank magnet wich it is not if you would just check prices
Garrett Osinov
Doomheim
#23 - 2015-09-21 18:00:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Garrett Osinov
Anize Oramara wrote:
Ginger Longrun wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Ginger Longrun wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:

I probably wouldn't recommend that fit as a marauder does it better, safer and the fit isn't really working towards the Machs strengths.



You are wrong - mach does it better and this fit uses machs streghts to the max

Factually, no I am not wrong as one of the Machs strengths (A role bonus in fact) is it's increased base warp speed. This means warp speed rigs increase its warp speed by more than what these rigs would increase on another BS hull. Additionally warp speed implants will also have a bigger effect.

Since your time in warp is in fact the majority of time you will spend blitzing lv4s, this has a far greater effect on how good the ship is for lv4s than DPS so it's probably one of the biggest strengths of the hull. Since the ship is using Polarized it (apparently?) needs the cap rigs to keep the repper running or else it dies due to no resists.

Thus the fit does not work towards the Mach's strengths.


It warps faster than a marauder with warp implants, does way more dps what are you talking about? it can beat any ship in mission completion time overall

I agree with you on warp rigs - I think I could swap a rig for a t2 warp rig and see how that goes - never tought of that

The problem with only quoting part of a post :)

While yes, the Mach is better than marauders for running (specifically blitzing) lv4 missions due to a combination of warp speed, MWD speed and range/application with ACs, my point was that marauders are a better platform to use if you want to use Polarized weapons.

The Mach is not as well suited for Polarized weapons as Marauders specifically because of the bling you have to run and the lack of resists amplifying it as a gank magnet and the loss of warp speed rigs (either go all 3 or don't bother).

Basically a marauder will out do a Mach in something like say, Blockade. But then Blockade is not normally on the list of blitzable missions. A blitzing Mach will still make more isk than a ship doing 1500 of the correct type of dps running Blockade. The reason for that is warp speed, mostly. Once you understand that you will understand why PvE Machariels are fit the way they are and flown the way they are. Just up to you if you like that sort fo thing or not.

Besides, it's just as easy tog et over 1500 dps on a vargur as it is on a Mach


Have you ever used Machariel and Vargur ?

Or you are an EFT warrior ?
Ginger Longrun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-09-21 18:16:38 UTC
Garrett Osinov wrote:


Have you ever used Machariel and Vargur ?

Or you are an EFT warrior ?


Dont think that question is for me since you quoted him.

Only thing that vargur can deliver better than machariel is close to double tracking but a machariel flown corectly needs no more tracking.

As I mentioned before, this fit is not for cassual mission running with cap stability and some over kill tank. Its meant for maximum damage aplication, fast warp speed, good align and 1500+ sub warp speed for positioning.

Tho I will agree that swapping one T1 CCC rigs with a T2 hyperspatial looks like a very nice upgrade. Again I advise against using the fit without at least mid-grade crystals.
Altair Taurus
#25 - 2015-09-21 18:30:04 UTC
Well, do you still talk about mission blitzing?
Ginger Longrun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-09-21 18:32:41 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
Well, do you still talk about mission blitzing?



Either way polarized mach shines and then some. I blitz and cherry pick for the isk efficiency part and I never loot/salvage
Garrett Osinov
Doomheim
#27 - 2015-09-21 18:36:09 UTC
Ginger Longrun wrote:
Garrett Osinov wrote:


Have you ever used Machariel and Vargur ?

Or you are an EFT warrior ?


Dont think that question is for me since you quoted him.

Only thing that vargur can deliver better than machariel is close to double tracking but a machariel flown corectly needs no more tracking.

As I mentioned before, this fit is not for cassual mission running with cap stability and some over kill tank. Its meant for maximum damage aplication, fast warp speed, good align and 1500+ sub warp speed for positioning.

Tho I will agree that swapping one T1 CCC rigs with a T2 hyperspatial looks like a very nice upgrade. Again I advise against using the fit without at least mid-grade crystals.


it was a question actualy to Anize Oramara...

And to all other ppl who never flown this ship, but playing with EFT.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#28 - 2015-09-22 00:14:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Used he vargur for quite a few years actually, currently using the Machariel to get over 200m/h. There should be dozens of posts about how I ran the vargur and the numbers I used to get with it prior to the warp changes, polarized and the drop off in loot value.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#29 - 2015-09-22 00:27:56 UTC
Ginger Longrun wrote:
Garrett Osinov wrote:


Have you ever used Machariel and Vargur ?

Or you are an EFT warrior ?


Dont think that question is for me since you quoted him.

Only thing that vargur can deliver better than machariel is close to double tracking but a machariel flown corectly needs no more tracking.

As I mentioned before, this fit is not for cassual mission running with cap stability and some over kill tank. Its meant for maximum damage aplication, fast warp speed, good align and 1500+ sub warp speed for positioning.

Tho I will agree that swapping one T1 CCC rigs with a T2 hyperspatial looks like a very nice upgrade. Again I advise against using the fit without at least mid-grade crystals.

Hahah you're not even using Ascendancies?

Good lord.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-09-22 06:34:34 UTC
Use approach/keep at range with an MWD to manage transversal.

With an AC mach, transversal is everything. Competent manual piloting makes the ship vastly more effective.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2015-09-22 07:09:28 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
Sorry I mean 400 DPS tank with AB on. With AB off this is 700 DPS tank sustained. Well 920 DPS is from autocannons only. I do not add drone damage because you know, this is a bit risky...

Of course now I do not own Machariel. This is only my EFT play to be able to judge if I could purchase it and run some level 4 missions successfully.

Anyway projectile autocannon ammunition is real mess! Let's assume I run missions in Machariel against Gurista rats. Those are most susceptible to kinetic and thermal damage. Thus the best ammo against them is Phased Plasma but:

- T1 ammo offers much less raw damage than T2 ammo
- T2 ammo comes in two types: Hail - very large raw DPS but deplorable damage selection against Guristas (78.5% EXP and 21.5% KIN) and greatly reduced falloff. I suppose Hail ammo does less real damage than T1 Phased Plasma against those pirate faction. Barrage - raw DPS worse than T1 ammo with also worse damage selection similarly to Hail.

All that means the best option is to field T1 faction short range ammo but this ammo is about 5 times more expensive than T1 ammo.


Step 1) Go to Lanngisi, run SoE missions against Angels which are very weak to T2 autocannon ammo, get 1200+ DPS out of your Mach with Hail, kill everything.

Step 2) Profit

Seriously, what missions are you running that are giving you mostly Guristas rats?
Ginger Longrun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-09-26 11:11:11 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:



We where arguing about 2 different scenarios and we where both right. My POV at that time with that fit was running missions with declining all burners so for that purpose that machariel is best with that fit considering tank/gank.

After starting on burners I found that fit was lacking in some areas so I replaced all rigs with T2 hyperspatial, dropped a Tcomp for a MJD, serpentis inertial stab and plugged in an assortment of ascendancyes with WS-618. I only run scarlet, the assault and pirate invasion and the fit i find is just perfect. Mach warps at 7.9 Twisted



Cheers - do you have a fit for the next super burner?
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#33 - 2015-09-27 12:24:39 UTC
Ginger Longrun wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:



We where arguing about 2 different scenarios and we where both right. My POV at that time with that fit was running missions with declining all burners so for that purpose that machariel is best with that fit considering tank/gank.

After starting on burners I found that fit was lacking in some areas so I replaced all rigs with T2 hyperspatial, dropped a Tcomp for a MJD, serpentis inertial stab and plugged in an assortment of ascendancyes with WS-618. I only run scarlet, the assault and pirate invasion and the fit i find is just perfect. Mach warps at 7.9 Twisted



Cheers - do you have a fit for the next super burner?

Nah I'm eager to see what chainsaw comes up with and um, borrow the fit Pirate

Also theres a couple of other lv4 missions that have good isk/m thats comparable to assault and invation. attack of the drones comes to mind (you can use sentries there) and recon 1 of course. Stop the thief and gone bezerk are also very good.

Doing those missions help keep agent standing high enough so you dont ever have to use a pulling alt.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

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