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To be or Not to be, That is the question..or is it. First post
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Jonah Gravenstein

Machiavellian Space Bastards

Likes received: 28,489

#61 - 2015-09-21 19:07:35 UTC

Caladan Panzureborn wrote:

From a new player's perspective, who's sub will lapse on Oct. 1st and will not be renewed, there is absolutely nothing CCP can do at this point to significantly increase its subs. Short of adding massive new features like those that will be featured in Star Citizen (Arena, Ground Combat, Social Zones etc.) and completely revamping the UI. The game provides an inferior PvP/PvE experience compared to other more modern games. I've tried as many of the different things to do in game that I could and was not entertained enough.
What is does provide is a playground for hardcore RP'ers. My feeling is that the game is completely run by RP'ers and if you're not into RP, then good luck trying to have fun. But again, the straight up PvP and PvE is terrible on it's own. If you're not into playing "Alliance Wars" or "Corporate Espionage" or whatever, well, RP as something else for fun because the game itself does not provide fun.
The game at it's core is not new player friendly. Corps, especially new player corps, like EVE Uni, Brave, Karma etc. are not new player friendly. I don't think any of those people have a clue how terrible their corps are and how ridiculous there recruitment processes and applications are. Trying to interact with them is like interacting with the California Department of Motor Vehicles or insert other bad RL goverment/corp entity here. I've honestly never experience anything like it in the half a dozen MMORPGs I've played over the years and that's not a good thing.
But anyway, MMOs are cheap to run and very profitable even at their worst so I expect EVE to drag on for many years to come with a slowly declining player base. Hell even old crap like Champions Online is still getting new content.

I'm pretty bored at work right now, so I'll tell you a story about my FW experience yesterday as an example of how boring this **** is and how the players are ass hats. I joined an open public fleet. Joined their public TS3 server. Introduced myself on comms. Went into the system, was told "Go Here" "Ok, I'm here". Orbited around a capture point for 10 minutes, nothing happens. That one finished. Went and orbited around another capture point, waited 15 minutes. While I waited, I WENT AND COOKED MY LUNCH! Came back, nothing is happening. Go to another capture point. One Frigate warps in and he's dead in less than 20 seconds. A three on one fight. No challenge.
Here's the interesting thing. Someone comes into fleet chat in game and asks who I am. They accuse me a being a spy for some dude we'll call him "Arthur". I say, "I'm a new player, this is my first time trying out FW". "My name is X on TS3, I'm not a spy and I don't know who Arthur is". They say, well we'll kick you anyway. Five minutes later, I'm kicked from the public TS3 channel. But not banned. lol. Ten seconds later I re-join the channel and ask why the heck I was kicked. "Your in-game name doesn't match your TS3 handle perfectly. It's suspicious." "Um, ok. I use this TS3 for other games too, it's an old handle. And actually the name is similar. Paranoia much?" "No, we're not paranoid, Arthur is listening. Arthur is always trying to spy on us". Whatever buddy. Went to another capture point and orbited for another ten minutes.
Fleet decided they're going to take on a group of gate campers of enemy faction and decide they're all going to use X ship. I don't have the skills to pilot X ship so am left behind at capture point alone. A faction ship that I have no chance against warps into the capture point. I call for assistance on comms and am told to just run away. Yay!

TL;DR: EVE: Online sucks. For hardcore RP'ers only. Anyone not into RP'ing can **** off.

Every post you've made on these forums has been negative in nature, there doesn't appear to be a single thing you like about Eve so perhaps your leaving is a good thing. Before you crawl back to whatever MMO you came from and its probable theme park nature, your stuff, can I have it?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Gimme Sake

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 621

#62 - 2015-09-21 20:13:43 UTC

I totally agree with OP's perspective. The players have little connection with the characters they play in game. There are plenty of alts and accounts randomly named because they're simply compartments of their wallet, or utilities for fleet or industry.
There has to be some synergy, some atmosphere, a sense of belonging in order to develop, or maintain, a player base. All a new player experiences in this game are mostly impersonal statistics.

Old players have their memories, their stories, their experiences from when an event signified a bit more than another percent added to alliance or corp wallet. Some dwell on that, on the relationships they formed over years and on the time and effort invested but some do not. Some try to create "content", what a bland and impersonal word that is, while other simply adopted an expectation stance and nod in hopeful approval or disdain to CCP's efforts meant to balance and rebalance different aspects of what they hope might create an incentive for passionate, dynamic gameplay.

I personally think it is a mistake to level all regions, even if they're all made ultra profitable or, on the opposite, barren. It is not an element that creates atmosphere or excitement. It will not drive players to create more "content" than they already do. I see no mystery, no incentive for joining or start to think about being part of something of significance.

There must be something that will drive a new, or old, player to consider leaving their personal comfort of daily isk grinding or killboard padding. There's must be something that will make a newb or a vet say "Tomorrow I will leave my home and head for the Pure Blind (for example) because there is something unique happening or staging in there. If my corp or alliance has become comfortably numb then I will leave it behind because I'm really excited by the perspective of that event.... and here CCP must come with something brilliant... don't know what, that's their department but I want to feel excited and not persuaded to go see what "it" is.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Doomheim 51
Martin Corwin Doomheim Likes received: 51	#63 - 2015-09-21 23:52:17 UTC Hasikan Miallok wrote: Tippia wrote: B > ¬B unless B ≤ 0 yes but what he said was 2B v ¬2B Judging from OPs wall of text, I reckon it's rather: \|{OPs Eve (t=0)} ∩ {CCPs Eve (t=0)}\| < min(\|{OPs Eve (t<0)} ∩ {OPs Eve (t<0)}\|) but YMMV vOv

Martin Corwin

Doomheim

Likes received: 51

#64 - 2015-09-22 00:18:50 UTC

Caladan Panzureborn wrote:

Here's the interesting thing. Someone comes into fleet chat in game and asks who I am. They accuse me a being a spy for some dude we'll call him "Arthur". I say, "I'm a new player, this is my first time trying out FW". "My name is X on TS3, I'm not a spy and I don't know who Arthur is". They say, well we'll kick you anyway. Five minutes later, I'm kicked from the public TS3 channel. But not banned. lol. Ten seconds later I re-join the channel and ask why the heck I was kicked. "Your in-game name doesn't match your TS3 handle perfectly. It's suspicious." "Um, ok. I use this TS3 for other games too, it's an old handle. And actually the name is similar. Paranoia much?" "No, we're not paranoid, Arthur is listening. Arthur is always trying to spy on us". Whatever buddy.

That's basically the same experience I got when I dared to connect to a public TS3 server of GalMil that was advertised to me as "come, join fleet, TS3 here". About 20 minutes into fleet some guy suddenly proclaims we have a spy in fleet and figures that he can "identify" the spy by setting some TS3 setting and whoever can't speak after that must be the spy. Me as the only guest at that time can of course not make myself be heard and am "identified" therefore as "the spy" and kicked. Wait, what?! What?

Was actually my first or second time on TS3 with other EvE players I did not know from RL. Took some time after that before I dared to try that again. So much for NPE.

Some players in this game are truly paranoid, I blame this awoxing/spy ****. Anyways, if you want to stay sane, better give these people a wide berth.

Sunshine and Lollipops 27,526
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops Likes received: 27,526	#65 - 2015-09-22 00:29:28 UTC 1 Martin Corwin wrote: Judging from OPs wall of text, I reckon it's rather: \|{OPs Eve (t=0)} ∩ {CCPs Eve (t=0)}\| < min(\|{OPs Eve (t<0)} ∩ {OPs Eve (t<0)}\|) but YMMV vOv That looks like a tautology.

Glathull

Warlock Assassins

Likes received: 1,291

#66 - 2015-09-22 03:46:11 UTC

Jenn aSide wrote:

CCP doesn't deliver anything, they give you tools and let you make something.

Most people don't like that and can't do it even if they tried, they want it handed to them out of the box which is why most games are themeparks.

So much this! Great way of summing it up, Jenn.

EvE is like having a toolbox in your closet. You can choose to use those tools, or you can choose not to.

If you're willing to accept and extend this metaphor, I'll go on by saying that this has been and should remain the guiding principle for CCP as far as EvE goes.

The word "content" is far too overused. We don't need more content. We need better tools for creating our own entertainment.

And I'm not saying that from the perspective of someone who thinks our current tools are bad. I think they are quite good.

I think the OP misses the point of EvE in exactly the way so many whiner-posters miss it.

EvE isn't a suburban house with a swimming pool and a yard and a good elementary school close by for your 2.5 kids to go to.

EvE is a screw gun, and a hammer, and a square, and a level for you to go out and build that dream house with. Or whatever your dream house is.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon

5,954
Indahmawar Fazmarai Likes received: 5,954	#67 - 2015-09-22 13:17:25 UTC \| Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai Glathull wrote: (...) EvE is like having a toolbox in your closet. You can choose to use those tools, or you can choose not to. (...) We can't use the tools that are not included with the toolbox. CCP gives us both nails and screws. Then they give us a toolbox with a full set of hammers and no screwdrivers. Why?

Jenn aSide

Soul Machines

The Initiative.

Likes received: 16,192

#68 - 2015-09-22 13:31:21 UTC

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Glathull wrote:

(...)

EvE is like having a toolbox in your closet. You can choose to use those tools, or you can choose not to.

(...)

We can't use the tools that are not included with the toolbox.

CCP gives us both nails and screws.

Then they give us a toolbox with a full set of hammers and no screwdrivers.

Why?

They give us everyhting we need and more. The problem is you don't use those tools, you don't even like to use tools. You want "immersion" (ie someone to tell you a story) rather than to go and make your own destiny. The problem you are experiencing is your own incompatibility with what EVE online is and has always been, not some problem with the actual game.

A quote from the above linked article:

Quote:

It wasn't meant to be a game, Reynir assures me – it was designed to be a toolbox to enable multiplayer experiences. I ask Reynir whether EVE then shaped itself, or was guided by development. “Both. We forged the fundamental rules and vision, then EVE shaped itself to a large extent. We have a lot of input from the community.” Torfi was blunter. “The players took over on May 5, 2003.” Launch day.

Verstal

Incredibuilders United

Likes received: 84

#69 - 2015-09-22 15:06:13 UTC

Glathull wrote:

Jenn aSide wrote:

User Created Content - or UCC is where all the great events originated throughout Eve history, and have been used as a marketing tool by CCP for over a decade. Tool box to create large fleet events is dead right now with the nerfs or is considered not worth the effort.

CCP or Dev created content consists of Missions, Plex, Anoms, WH's, Incursions, Epic Missions, all pretty much use the same mechanics, you lock things and you activate mods, auto fly with orbit / approach or micro control it. Once you have solo'd DED10 for 5 or 6 years done THQ Incursions, WH Sleepers, and a few Level 5's you have hit the maximum complexity for PVE.

The pay off for doing this content is text changes in color, Isk, LP and Standings, after all these years I have burnt out on every way you can make Isk several times over, the only thing that keeps me interested is UCC.

CCP has nerfed / removed tools and demotivated people to put in all the effort, the pay off for doing this work has been removed.

No reason to build Supers when supers are ****, no reason to own space when the grind is boring, and any idiot with a ceptor can screw with your space. Yes I know they are making changes but why would you ever put this into the game to start with, the direction shows a lack of understanding in what motivates the population.

My only conclusion is that CCP wanted to lose loyal customers in the hopes that it would break up the NULL power blocks. Nobody who has played this game would think these have been good changes, and even if they did they have proof that they were wrong and they are not moving fast to fix it.