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And time has come to fly Marauder...
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#21 - 2015-09-20 17:45:16 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
As for now I am inclined towards Vargur and Golem...

The Golem comes in black. Twisted

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#22 - 2015-09-20 18:20:03 UTC
Rena Monachica wrote:

regarding the Vargur, I mostly use Autocannons, they have sufficient range and the ammo consumption is manageable. Arty works too but I only use them when a onehitkill is required (Scarlet..)




Not quite the whole picture (if you're talking about the second to last room, where Scarlet jumps one final time) - you can take her down in three AC hits.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2015-09-20 20:43:14 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
Rena Monachica wrote:

regarding the Vargur, I mostly use Autocannons, they have sufficient range and the ammo consumption is manageable. Arty works too but I only use them when a onehitkill is required (Scarlet..)




Not quite the whole picture (if you're talking about the second to last room, where Scarlet jumps one final time) - you can take her down in three AC hits.


Scarlet has a large bounty (it's like 5m or something) which makes the arty ships worth taking in that specific mission. You get to kill her three times, and you collect the 5m bounty 3 times.

If you can't alpha her though she jumps through so you only collect isk off the last room.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#24 - 2015-09-20 23:11:25 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
I often hear the Vargur referred to as the "Unrivaled king of PvE", so if you really don't want the ease of use and flexibility of the Paladin, go Vargur.

yet it bends the knee to the machariel. IMO acs are useless without mobility,

I don't understand the vargur hype.

Ersahi Kir wrote:
Scarlet has a large bounty (it's like 5m or something) which makes the arty ships worth taking in that specific mission. You get to kill her three times, and you collect the 5m bounty 3 times.

If you can't alpha her though she jumps through so you only collect isk off the last room.

afaik it is twice. Once the first time you see her (must alpha as she warps as soon as you take offensive action), and again in the next room where she also drops a cha +3 implant (have something like 20 seconds to kill before warp).

Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
I'll echo Khan here , the paladin is a fantastic ship regardless of which race you are shooting.

The reason being it projects out so well that you can just power through the resists even if you are shooting straight into their max resists.

You can get over 1000 gun dps out to something silly like 40k and then switch to scotch (mistyped that but I kinda like it) and hit out to 109k instantly and melt face out there too and that's with short range guns.

Put tachs an there and you can hit 280k falloff...Yeah I know.

It's also by far and away the sexiest looking of the bunch.

at 40ish km I think you are doing something like 1300 with conflag.

Altair Taurus wrote:
Great! I have also question about bastion module and tank. What DPS tank do you think is sufficient in "bastioned" Marauder, because I get very crazy tank values in EFT like 1800/3500 sustained/maximum DPS or so. Is it unnecessary or simply standard bastion defense?

~300 omni. has been my answer since about the time marauders came out. Bastion doesn't really change the number required, just makes it way easier to get there

Bumblefck wrote:
It's powerful, sure, but the problem with the Golem isn't travel time - it's the RoF on the launchers. Unless you ungroup the launchers, it does get annoying popping cruisers and then having to wait x seconds to attack another target. With ACs or Mega Pulses, it's just a matter of 3 or so seconds - with Torps it's noticeably longer.

Close, but I wouldn't say it is the RoF, more of the whole you have to commit more damage than needed to kill a target, because you can't always 100% know how many missiles to shoot at the target, and out of convenience I usually group all launchers, which leads to a lot of overkill, and waiting full cycle times. With guns they hit instantly and even if I activate every single gun on my ship, only the required amount activate, meaning I almost never have to wait a full cycle to activate the next gun. I almost never group any guns, main exception vs dread pirate scarlet.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#25 - 2015-09-21 02:09:41 UTC
Paladin-------Best PVE Marauder
Vargur--------Best PVP Marauder
Golem--------Best All Rounder Marauder
Kronos-------Best looking Marauder


With your skills, I'd say the Golem would be the best choice for you.
Amanda Chan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2015-09-21 02:41:09 UTC
Kronos has a police skin. Just sayin'.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-09-21 02:56:16 UTC
Paladin: Accept no substitute

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-09-21 04:20:03 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Paladin-------Best PVE Marauder
Vargur--------Best PVP Marauder
Golem--------Best All Rounder Marauder
Kronos-------Best looking Marauder


With your skills, I'd say the Golem would be the best choice for you.

Was going to +1 the Paladin for PvE, but this pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter.

Regarding the Vargur in PvE, it's definitely not a bad ship by any means, but I can't help but feel that save for the EW heavy missions the Machariel is an all around better boat.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#29 - 2015-09-21 04:27:33 UTC
Personal favorite is the Golem because of the consistency of killing speeds, please note I said consistency not out right speed.
For me BS are 4 vollies no matter where I am, maybe 5 for the elites. Mission partners Vargur, Paladin and Kronos can vary from a low of 3 to a high of 6 depending on which ship, which weapons, ammo they are using and which NPC we are fighting. Since I mission with friends in all 4 factions space on a consistent basis I value this consistency as it makes it easier and less confusing to transition from area to area.

On the other hand if you are going to mission primarily in just one factions space then I would agree with the others that the Vargur or Paladin are the better options. I never really liked the Kronos because of the shorter range of the weapons systems they can use, and yet that is precisely why my son likes his so much.

Addressing some of the oft stated reasons why the Golem is not a good choice.

Volley count is never an issue for targets that are closer than 80k to 85k give or take depending on bastion or not and to be honest about 80% of all NPC in mission are well within this range. At these ranges the missiles will hit target before your next cycle begins so no volley counting is required. At ranges over these then volley counting can become a thing if you care about a few extra minutes completion time, or care about a few ISK worth of extra missiles.

Micromanaging target painters, used to be a thing but that is all gone now. The Missiles Guidance Computers with precision scripts are a far better option than painters. Yes you give up a little in the signature radius side of the equation, but more than make up for it in the increased explosion velocity side and the smaller and faster the target the better they are.

Missile travel time. Can't fight that as it is simply the truth, but then it only matters to those with no patience or to those who get stressed out over an additional couple of minutes to complete a mission. Definitely a thing if you want to blitz.

Overall and based on experiences I would say choose the one you like best.
If you like missiles then go Golem.
If you like turrets then Paladin or Vargur.
If you like lasers then Paladin.
If you are like my son and prefer blasters then go Kronos.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#30 - 2015-09-21 05:29:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Unless you use Polarized weapons (nad full clear/salvage/loot during mission), there's no real point in using a marauder over something like a Rattlesnake, Machariel, Nightmare, Navy Geddon/Apoc, Navy Raven, etc.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#31 - 2015-09-21 10:17:28 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Personal favorite is the Golem because of the consistency of killing speeds, please note I said consistency not out right speed.
For me BS are 4 vollies no matter where I am, maybe 5 for the elites. Mission partners Vargur, Paladin and Kronos can vary from a low of 3 to a high of 6 depending on which ship, which weapons, ammo they are using and which NPC we are fighting. Since I mission with friends in all 4 factions space on a consistent basis I value this consistency as it makes it easier and less confusing to transition from area to area.

On the other hand if you are going to mission primarily in just one factions space then I would agree with the others that the Vargur or Paladin are the better options. I never really liked the Kronos because of the shorter range of the weapons systems they can use, and yet that is precisely why my son likes his so much.

Addressing some of the oft stated reasons why the Golem is not a good choice.

Volley count is never an issue for targets that are closer than 80k to 85k give or take depending on bastion or not and to be honest about 80% of all NPC in mission are well within this range. At these ranges the missiles will hit target before your next cycle begins so no volley counting is required. At ranges over these then volley counting can become a thing if you care about a few extra minutes completion time, or care about a few ISK worth of extra missiles.

Micromanaging target painters, used to be a thing but that is all gone now. The Missiles Guidance Computers with precision scripts are a far better option than painters. Yes you give up a little in the signature radius side of the equation, but more than make up for it in the increased explosion velocity side and the smaller and faster the target the better they are.

Missile travel time. Can't fight that as it is simply the truth, but then it only matters to those with no patience or to those who get stressed out over an additional couple of minutes to complete a mission. Definitely a thing if you want to blitz.

Overall and based on experiences I would say choose the one you like best.
If you like missiles then go Golem.
If you like turrets then Paladin or Vargur.
If you like lasers then Paladin.
If you are like my son and prefer blasters then go Kronos.


If this is true then the Golem has a soon to be useless skill.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#32 - 2015-09-21 10:23:07 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Unless you use Polarized weapons (nad full clear/salvage/loot during mission), there's no real point in using a marauder over something like a Rattlesnake, Machariel, Nightmare, Navy Geddon/Apoc, Navy Raven, etc.



Um I hate to break this to you, but Polarize weapons on Marauders is FAIL. If you're going the class cannon route then it's best to use either ABCs or platinum insured T1 BSs.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#33 - 2015-09-21 12:19:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Daniela Doran wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Unless you use Polarized weapons (nad full clear/salvage/loot during mission), there's no real point in using a marauder over something like a Rattlesnake, Machariel, Nightmare, Navy Geddon/Apoc, Navy Raven, etc.



Um I hate to break this to you, but Polarize weapons on Marauders is FAIL. If you're going the class cannon route then it's best to use either ABCs or platinum insured T1 BSs.

Why? If there is one ship that can make best use of polarized weapons for missions then it's marauders.

- Can easily tank 500-1k dps with 0 resists using very few modules
- Has a large cargo hold to hold cap booster charges (for running ASBs or cap boosters)
- increased ROF of Polarized offset with reduced no of turrets/launchers
- 0 faction/bling modules required to tank any missions, reducing ganks to only ganking for tears
- 0 faction/bling modules required to get more DPS than nearly any other subcap (vindies have range issues) reducing gank to only ganking for tears.
- Omni tanks Pirate

They seem to be one of the single best ship classes in the game to run Polarized with and that goes for every one of the 4 marauders. What reasons can you give me for polarized being bad on Marauders? Am I missing something obvious?

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#34 - 2015-09-21 12:43:17 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I don't understand the vargur hype.

The point with the Marauders is that you can both do the mission and then loot and salvage at the same time. Sure the Machariel will probably do the missions a little faster, but if you takes into consideration that you can earn around 180-200 mill isk just in loot alone in the 5x 'Enemies Abound' level 4 missions, then the Vargur or whatever Marauders is a really good choice.

If you care about the isk in the missions, the Marauders are a good option for that. To be as effective with a Machariel, you have to use an alt on top of the Machariel that will do the looting and salvaging. So the Marauders are more like a ship that let's you do the missions with just 1 character over having to use 2 if you want to do the same with a Machariel.

I'm using a pretty well fitted Vargur myself right now doing level 4 missions (outside of a contract), and it's really good for that.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2015-09-21 12:47:50 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
The point with the Marauders is that you can both do the mission and then loot and salvage at the same time


Maybe for others, but not for me. For me it was "f--- the enemy EWAR." Seriously, that's the only reason to use a marauder in the first place, is when being inconvenienced by various forms of EWAR just gets on your nerves or slows you down too much. This is a bigger problem with level 4's than 3's obviously, which is why people hail Machariel on Level 3's to be the best isk-maker around. Machariel's speed for blitzing + strength of autocannons + reduced instances of enemy EWAR to slow you down = bank.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#36 - 2015-09-21 12:48:59 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I don't understand the vargur hype.

The point with the Marauders is that you can both do the mission and then loot and salvage at the same time. Sure the Machariel will probably do the missions a little faster, but if you takes into consideration that you can earn around 180-200 mill isk just in loot alone in the 5x 'Enemies Abound' level 4 missions, then the Vargur or whatever Marauders is a really good choice.

If you care about the isk in the missions, the Marauders are a good option for that. To be as effective with a Machariel, you have to use an alt on top of the Machariel that will do the looting and salvaging. So the Marauders are more like a ship that let's you do the missions with just 1 character over having to use 2 if you want to do the same with a Machariel.

I'm using a pretty well fitted Vargur myself right now doing level 4 missions (outside of a contract), and it's really good for that.

Incorrect (on some aspects of your post). I have hit over 200mill/h over the weekend blitzing with a machariel and cherry picking missions (around 1/3 of the total available missions) on a single character and have never ever had to use a mission pulling alt. A marauder will no longer be able to compete with a Mach since Rubicon.

Caveat: You need to be able to do most (around 75%) of the burner missions

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#37 - 2015-09-21 12:50:12 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
The point with the Marauders is that you can both do the mission and then loot and salvage at the same time


Maybe for others, but not for me. For me it was "f--- the enemy EWAR." Seriously, that's the only reason to use a marauder in the first place, is when being inconvenienced by various forms of EWAR just gets on your nerves or slows you down too much. This is a bigger problem with level 4's than 3's obviously, which is why people hail Machariel on Level 3's to be the best isk-maker around. Machariel's speed for blitzing + strength of autocannons + reduced instances of enemy EWAR to slow you down = bank.

If you cherry pick missions you will never face e-war running lv4 missions.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#38 - 2015-09-21 13:22:17 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Anize Oramara wrote:
I have hit over 200mill/h over the weekend blitzing with a machariel and cherry picking missions (around 1/3 of the total available missions) on a single character and have never ever had to use a mission pulling alt. A marauder will no longer be able to compete with a Mach since Rubicon.

I would like to see an explanation on how you are able to earn up to around 200 mill isk / h with a Machariel in a level 4 mission?

I would guess that you are just MWD'ing around to the wrecks and loots them while you kill the npcs or something?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#39 - 2015-09-21 13:38:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
NightmareX wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
I have hit over 200mill/h over the weekend blitzing with a machariel and cherry picking missions (around 1/3 of the total available missions) on a single character and have never ever had to use a mission pulling alt. A marauder will no longer be able to compete with a Mach since Rubicon.

I would like to see an explanation on how you are able to earn up to around 200 mill isk / h with a Machariel in a level 4 mission?

I would guess that you are just MWD'ing around to the wrecks and loots them while you kill the npcs or something?

Never loot (except for scarlet implant), kill only what needs to be killed to complete mission, warp speed implants and rigs, MWD, Cherry pick missions, burners, high value LP (most corps have at least a few such items) and location, location, location.

In case anyone wonders how I measure it: I enter starting isk and LP. Run missions for 3h or so, enter end isk and LP. calculate at around 1700 isk/lp. Get result and devide by hours I missioned.

So this includes repair costs, docking/undocking/warp/travel/accepting/denying time and any refit time. Ammo costs is pretty light considering few missions involve killing more than a BS or two.

It's not paper isk/h.

Fun fact, you'd need to kill 3-4 1mill bounty BS every minute, continuously, for an hour to reach that figure ;)

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#40 - 2015-09-21 14:37:57 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Unless you use Polarized weapons (nad full clear/salvage/loot during mission), there's no real point in using a marauder over something like a Rattlesnake, Machariel, Nightmare, Navy Geddon/Apoc, Navy Raven, etc.



Um I hate to break this to you, but Polarize weapons on Marauders is FAIL. If you're going the class cannon route then it's best to use either ABCs or platinum insured T1 BSs.

Why? If there is one ship that can make best use of polarized weapons for missions then it's marauders.

- Can easily tank 500-1k dps with 0 resists using very few modules
- Has a large cargo hold to hold cap booster charges (for running ASBs or cap boosters)
- increased ROF of Polarized offset with reduced no of turrets/launchers
- 0 faction/bling modules required to tank any missions, reducing ganks to only ganking for tears
- 0 faction/bling modules required to get more DPS than nearly any other subcap (vindies have range issues) reducing gank to only ganking for tears.
- Omni tanks Pirate

They seem to be one of the single best ship classes in the game to run Polarized with and that goes for every one of the 4 marauders. What reasons can you give me for polarized being bad on Marauders? Am I missing something obvious?



Either you're very skilled at avoiding taking hits or very lucky. I just can't fathom why anyone would use Polarize weaponry on Marauders that lowers armor/shield resist to 0 across the board even if they try to fit some resist modes or use Bastion. I'm pretty sure you're the only one using these on Marauders.