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Plex hits 1b ISK in Jita

First post
Author
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#521 - 2015-09-21 00:20:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron
NEAL UNGERLEIDER wrote:


Interviewing Eyjolfur "Eyjo" Guðmundsson - The Economist hired by CCP

The economy that supports EVE is all founded on in-game currency InterStellar Kredit (ISK) and currency-like Pilot License Extensions (PLEXes); PLEXes can be purchased through real-life currency as well. That’s where the economist Guðmundsson comes in. Alongside standard research scientist fare such as writing internal reports, he has to occasionally intervene to prevent inflation and unintended market consequences. Because PLEXes are tangentially related to the actual, real-life global economy, he helps CCP build protocols for when real life intrudes into the virtual game economy.



I have quoted a reporter interviewing the Economist hired by CCP to advise them. In this paragraph they imply that real life intrudes into the Eve economy that could result in inflation.

Plex is the bridge between RL cash and isk, to say that RL cost of plex has no effect on in game isk price of plex my be inaccurate.

Here's the link to the full article Full Article

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#522 - 2015-09-21 00:21:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Quote:
PLEX is available to everyone, and anyone in EVE and outside of it, by exactly the same means.

No privilege is necessary or required.
All you need is money, or isk.

If you are unable to afford PLEX, that does not mean you are "under privileged", or lacking a privilege which those who can afford it have.

It merely means you do not have as much money to spend (or will to do so), ingame or without it, to purchase this commodity.

Its nonsense and quite a perversion of the severe concept of "privilege" for which there are serious historical examples, to walk around in life thinking you are "under privileged" because you can't afford a gold watch or a Ferrari.


That seems contradictory. If the item has a fixed cost or method of being obtained it isn't available to those who can't pay that cost. It therefore isn't available to everyone.

If I don't have the ability to pay the necessary cost it very much means I can't have the item. That excludes me from an ability, through lack of wealth, that others have. That someone doesn't have as much to spend doesn't negate the distinction, it IS the distinction.

Thus PLEX (and pretty much everything else at some level) becomes a privilege of wealth.
Zihao
Doomheim
#523 - 2015-09-21 00:24:16 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
If you think that way, why do you not instead then pay the subs of the people whining here, as you are so "privileged"?


What about the acknowledgement of privileged obligates him to do anything like that?
Salvos Rhoska
#524 - 2015-09-21 00:26:39 UTC
Zihao wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
If you think that way, why do you not instead then pay the subs of the people whining here, as you are so "privileged"?


What about the acknowledgement of privileged obligates him to do anything like that?


What in my statement claims he is obligated?

You are making a false assumption.

The question simply asks why he does not do so.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#525 - 2015-09-21 00:28:12 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Quote:
PLEX is available to everyone, and anyone in EVE and outside of it, by exactly the same means.

No privilege is necessary or required.
All you need is money, or isk.

If you are unable to afford PLEX, that does not mean you are "under privileged", or lacking a privilege which those who can afford it have.

It merely means you do not have as much money to spend (or will to do so), ingame or without it, to purchase this commodity.

Its nonsense and quite a perversion of the severe concept of "privilege" for which there are serious historical examples, to walk around in life thinking you are "under privileged" because you can't afford a gold watch or a Ferrari.


That seems contradictory. If the item has a fixed cost or method of being obtained it isn't available to those who can't pay that cost. It therefore isn't available to everyone.

If I don't have the ability to pay the necessary cost it very much means I can't have the item. That excludes me from an ability, through lack of wealth, that others have. That someone doesn't have as much to spend doesn't negate the distinction, it IS the distinction.

Thus PLEX (and pretty much everything else at some level) becomes a privilege of wealth.


Privilege of wealth, in-game or real-life.

Now... can we care less about its class definition and care more about the effect of its in-game price on real-life players?

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#526 - 2015-09-21 00:28:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Aaron wrote:
Plex is the bridge between RL cash and isk, to say that RL cost of plex has no effect on in game isk price of plex my be inaccurate.
It is a bridge between the virtual and RL economies. There are more, such as subscriptions and game activity as a function of available free time.

PLEX, in particular, is almost entirely economy-neutral. In the most direct sense, it's deflationary since it removes ISK from the system with every trade, but it can also indirectly alter the velocity of money.

Oh, and “may be” ≠ “is”.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#527 - 2015-09-21 00:28:57 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Zihao wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
If you think that way, why do you not instead then pay the subs of the people whining here, as you are so "privileged"?


What about the acknowledgement of privileged obligates him to do anything like that?


What in my statement claims he is obligated?

You are making a false assumption.

The question simply asks why he does not do so.



Because he is not a philanthropist and advocating philanthropy pisses me off.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Zihao
Doomheim
#528 - 2015-09-21 00:29:41 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
The question simply asks why he does not do so.


OK, so what about acknowledging privilege suggests he would do so?
Salvos Rhoska
#529 - 2015-09-21 00:31:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
How is money a privilege?
It is only available to a select group that has the means and opportunities to acquire it. Or, more trivially: it is a privilege by virtue of not being a right.


All services and commodities in this world require payment.

That some people cannot afford these services or commodities (or do not wish to purchase them) is not a matter of privilege or right.

It is merely a matter of exchanging one value for another in common equity.

If only white males past the age of 30 were allowed to buy PLEX, that would be a privilege.

Tippia wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Is it a privilege to buy and own a gold watch?
Of course. It satisfies all the necessary criteria. In fact, it even satisfies a slightly different meaning of the word — that of representing a special honour — so it's a privilege in two different ways at once.


What "special honor"? Again with the irrelevant moral connotations.

There is no privilege in the act of buying and owning a commodity.
If I buy and own a stack of toilet paper, or pencils, its not a matter of privilege.
If I collect 100 pinecones from the forest, I am not privileged.
If I stack mud really high, or build a house out of it, I am not privileged.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#530 - 2015-09-21 00:31:38 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Money is a privilege not a right.


Money is certainly not a right. I agree.

How is money a privilege?

If you think that way, why do you not instead then pay the subs of the people whining here, as you are so "privileged"?


Because I have the right to use my privileges as I see fit.
Salvos Rhoska
#531 - 2015-09-21 00:32:15 UTC
Zihao wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
The question simply asks why he does not do so.


OK, so what about acknowledging privilege suggests he would do so?

I asked why he would not do so.

The question is quite specific, if you would simply read it instead of forcing imaginary implications upon it.
Salvos Rhoska
#532 - 2015-09-21 00:37:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
That seems contradictory. If the item has a fixed cost or method of being obtained it isn't available to those who can't pay that cost. It therefore isn't available to everyone.

It is available to everyone.
Whether they can (or will) pay for it, does not change the availability of this commodity.

I don't have the money to buy a 100ft yacht and a private jet.

Never would it occur to me to consider myself as lacking in privilege because I cannot buy things beyond my means.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#533 - 2015-09-21 00:38:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
All services and commodities in this world require payment.
…and guess what that means?

Quote:
That some people cannot afford these services or commodities (or do not wish to purchase them) is not a matter of privilege or right.
Incorrect. It is entirely a matter of privilege, except in the cases when access to a particular service or commodity is deemed a right and therefore is subsidised to ensure universal access.

Quote:
What "special honor"? Again with the irrelevant moral connotations.
You know that gold watches are often rewarded as a mark of long and distinguished service, yes? It's not irrelevant, and it has nothing to do with moral. It's just you not being familiar with the meaning of the word, or with the symbolism of gold watches.

Quote:
There is no privilege in the act of buying and owning a commodity.
Of course there is, as long as buying and owning them is exclusively available to a particular group; as long as purchase and ownership is not a right.

Again. The something is either a privilege or a right. This is the dichotomy we're talking about. Being a commodity does not in any way, shape, or form alter this dichotomy. Any given commodity will be placed in one of those two, mutually exclusive categories.

If it is not a right, it is a privilege. If it is not a privilege, it is a right. Whether or not a commodity is a privilege or a right does not depend on its status as a commodity because that is an entirely separate and unrelated axis of categorisation.

Quote:
Whether they can (or will) pay for it, does not change the availability of this commodity.
Yes it does. If you cannot pay for it, it is not available to you.
Zihao
Doomheim
#534 - 2015-09-21 00:40:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Zihao
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
imaginary implications


That would be a very indirect way of describing idiom and common vernacular, yes.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#535 - 2015-09-21 00:43:10 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
That seems contradictory. If the item has a fixed cost or method of being obtained it isn't available to those who can't pay that cost. It therefore isn't available to everyone.


It is available to everyone.
Whether they can (or will) pay for it, does not change the availability of this commodity.

But it does. If I cannot or will not pay the required price I cannot have the commodity. It is unavailable to me. That I am granted the ability to access the purchase medium for the item is not the same as being able to have the item.

In the end the ability for only white males to purchase it and the commodity being beyond my ability to afford but otherwise available both prevent me from having the item. There is no difference in the end effect of these 2 distinctions.
Zihao
Doomheim
#536 - 2015-09-21 00:45:28 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

If only white males past the age of 30 were allowed to buy PLEX, that would be a privilege.


The english word for that is "racist."
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#537 - 2015-09-21 00:46:48 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Aaron wrote:
I think that Eve has become a capitalist society, CCP want too much for plex lets face it, in the UK a plex is £16.99 which is £7.00 more than the monthly sub which has prompted the plex sellers to sell at a high price.

Plex prices do not affect me because I sub my 2 accounts. All I have done is read what most of the plex buyers are saying and I have come to the conclusion that we will see numbers drop yet again. CCP should listen to the people who plex their account, it does seem as if they are being ignored.

We will see lots of people cancel their 2nd and 3rd accounts because they are no longer able to generate much profit for the player, I get that people can diversify and go into other areas of the game like FW, WH etc.

Has CCP made any statement about revising the real life cost of plex?

I ask this because I can see this game being ruined, Level with me here, why is the RL plex price an extra 70% on top of the sub price?


Agreed; that price differential is indefensible. CCP urgently need to get more people logging in to keep the game healthy, and dropping the RL price of PLEX to a similar, albeit slightly higher, level than a 1 month sub would be a big step towards that.


This would likely also help the in game price. If the RL price dropped more players might buy PLEX for sale in game. Eventually a new equilibrium would be reached, but the point is the in game price would drop as well.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#538 - 2015-09-21 00:52:37 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Sweet. I'll cash out once it hits 1.2 bil. I got greedy last time and it collapsed before I could sell off.


Have you sold?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Salvos Rhoska
#539 - 2015-09-21 00:53:47 UTC
Apparently paying for a service or a commodity is considered a "privilege".
Ergo, apparently getting paid for your service and work, is also a "privilege".

Apparently the things that you cannot afford are "not available".
They just magically disappear because you aren't paying for them.

I'm astounded and I fold out.
Have it your way. I'll have it mine.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#540 - 2015-09-21 00:59:39 UTC
If the price of a PLEX or EVE SUB is beyond the means of anyone living on the Island of Outer Greater Birdania that is no different to them being banned from using it. Its a semantic argument relying on dictionary definitions instead of reality.

You get these examples all the time. In my country a law was introduced that puts very onerous punishment on a particular type of petty crimes that is only committed by teenagers of a particular racial minority. The laws specifically applied to children and give a jail sentence for a misdemeanor that adults would have received a minor fine for committing.

Despite the law as written applying equally to all races it actually was targeting a particular minority group and only effected them. The UN regards the argument that the laws apply equally to all as specious and irrelevant to the actual situation.

This situation is similar.