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Dev blog: Citadels, sieges and you v2

First post
Author
Beta Maoye
#161 - 2015-09-18 06:38:17 UTC

Quote:
We revaluated our position on Wormhole space asset safety from our “I feel safe in Citadel city” blog. Structures destroyed in wormhole space will see all of their assets lost when destroyed and subject to the magical loot fairy rules that would normally apply for ship cargohold.


In case of destruction of structures, it should be either everyone get everything back or everyone lose everything. I don't see any reason why some people should suffer losing everything they hardly earned while some others have the privilege to save all their assets automatically by the game.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#162 - 2015-09-18 06:44:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
I would like to point out that CCP with the vulnerability approach detailed have understood that Citadels would have a usage issue if they were really easy to attack and if they got blown up all would be lost. Could they really see risk averse players bothering to put them up if they were real easy to find and reinforce and then kill, no. My attitude in this game is to be difficult to kill, or to make someone rich at my expense, this means that the first iteration of citadels got a meh, I won't bother approach, with the asset relocation it worked, but the RF and defence side of things was too much hassle for my more laid back just do what I want to have fun approach to Eve.

The vulnerability periods as laid out within the dev blog are perfect for more casual players, but the HTFU fanatics are now having a fit. What they fail to realise is that with the current suggestion a lot of players will build these things now and have a reason to defend them in the time they are vulnerable and there will be loads of them, it just takes effort on your part to find a target that fits your TZ. And so many of you HTFU types talk about Eve being a hard game except when it comes to your own effort. I think CCP have set it at the right level so it is not a damn chore that prevents me from wanting to putt one up what they have suggested works for me, now you lot just need to locate the targets, a bit of work that, and I am so glad no API data too.

I have to say that the WH suggestions got a big meh from me in terms of faster reinforcement, that sucks big time on top of the asset relocation which I understand, I just now cannot see that I would ever go anywhere near living in a WH. I have to ask the questions, in terms of easy to locate static structures, why do they have to be easy to take, this also goes back to the concept you laid out here in normal space, hisec, lowsec and nullsec, so when people talk about expanding the vulnerability period ignore them, when they ask for loot drops ignore them because if you do, do not expect more casual players to be loot pinatas for all those bored HTFU types.

Lets point it out very clearly, I would rather not use Citadels at all if these HTFU people have it easy.

And at this point you have it about right because you have it so that people who put these up have advantages in defending them and do not have to baby sit them all the time, the only issue is that 48 hour suggestion in WH space.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

SyntaxPD
PowerDucks
PowerDucks Alliance
#163 - 2015-09-18 06:57:29 UTC  |  Edited by: SyntaxPD
Are you serious? Making new features that denies another new feature, which is not implemented well yet...

Now look what you're doing:
1. Entosis is bad, because players want pew-pew.
2. Entosis is good, because it ensures active presence of sides on battlefield.
3. You now take it out and replace with 30min repair timer -> satisfy p.1
4. 30 min timers ensures, that hit&run will be used as primary attack tactic to decrease risks ->broken p.2

Solution:
Make damage only appliable while entosis is active (or make it stop repair mechanics while decreasing repair timers)
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#164 - 2015-09-18 06:58:05 UTC
Thinking about it, why not keep Entosis modules while retaining the "shoot it till it dies" aspect?

Lets say this: why should everything explode? Sometimes, you might want to capture it rather than annihilate it. So the Entosis module could effect 2 things in this respect: shields and capture. You can use a small fleet or a single ship to entosis a structure and thus "convince" the system to drop the shields placing the structure into the first invulnerability phase. The second use would be to capture the structure: instead of killing the hull off, you use the Entosis module when the hull is in a low % to 'vent air' into space and turn the structures systems to your side.

The defender could counter Entosis to prevent the opponent from dropping shields and in the latter stage the Defender can counter Entosis the capture or even use it to enforce a self destruct resulting in only 25% of a drop instead of 50% - especially for the nose-thumbing defender in WH space.


This would add more options to the table without reducing assets already added to the game (ie: Entosis links)

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#165 - 2015-09-18 07:38:01 UTC
Maenth wrote:
The vast majority of what I see in this dev blog is pretty cool and I'm happy, and want to know more!

However, I must agree with one or more people on one point:
Quote:
We revaluated our position on Wormhole space asset safety from our “I feel safe in Citadel city” blog. Structures destroyed in wormhole space will see all of their assets lost when destroyed and subject to the magical loot fairy rules that would normally apply for ship cargohold.

That is not okay.

Everybody gets absolutely nonsensically magical asset safety but then destroyed citadels in wormholes can't even shunt their loots to a friendly citadel within the same system?

That is not okay.

Either everybody who sets up a Citadel should get a degree of asset safety out of it, or nobody should. Pickiong wormhole people to not get even the fraction of 'asset safety' that everybody else benefits from.... Even within the heartless world of destruction that is EVE, that's pretty unfair and cruel.


CCP is caught between a rock and a hard place on this one. A very vocal group asked for loot drop in WH space. CCP listened to their arguments and complied. Now the other side is coming out to register their complaints. Personally, I would like to see loot drop in all areas of space.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#166 - 2015-09-18 07:48:43 UTC  |  Edited by: gascanu
CCP Phantom wrote:
After great and very useful feedback from you, the player community, we are excited to bring you an update about the new Citadel structures!

Entosis links are not going to work on new structures, to attack those new structures you need to go through their hitpoints. To prevent boring structure grinding, and to prevent the requirement for massive blobs, a new game mechanic that mitigates damage after a certain threshold has been introduced. The attack process has been streamlined as well.

Read more about those new aspects in the latest dev blog from Team Game of Drones (written by CCP Ytterbium): Citadels, Sieges and You v2


We welcome your feedback! Please note that all numbers and proposals are open for discussions and not finalized.


who are you and what have you done to CCP Phantom?! Shocked

i have to say this looks much better much better than the magic flashlight version; some numbers may need small tweeks but all in all a good nice system(the dps caps seems al bit low to me, esp on xl structures, but since citadels should be the safest structures out there i can live with it)

one question tho:
nul sec owner with no index - this include the 0.0 NPC space?
like i said before you guys seems to forget about this type of space(NPC 0.0) does exist in eve universe, and each time you reballance something it's ending up in a different category...
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#167 - 2015-09-18 08:24:57 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Maenth wrote:
The vast majority of what I see in this dev blog is pretty cool and I'm happy, and want to know more!

However, I must agree with one or more people on one point:
Quote:
We revaluated our position on Wormhole space asset safety from our “I feel safe in Citadel city” blog. Structures destroyed in wormhole space will see all of their assets lost when destroyed and subject to the magical loot fairy rules that would normally apply for ship cargohold.

That is not okay.

Everybody gets absolutely nonsensically magical asset safety but then destroyed citadels in wormholes can't even shunt their loots to a friendly citadel within the same system?

That is not okay.

Either everybody who sets up a Citadel should get a degree of asset safety out of it, or nobody should. Pickiong wormhole people to not get even the fraction of 'asset safety' that everybody else benefits from.... Even within the heartless world of destruction that is EVE, that's pretty unfair and cruel.


CCP is caught between a rock and a hard place on this one. A very vocal group asked for loot drop in WH space. CCP listened to their arguments and complied. Now the other side is coming out to register their complaints. Personally, I would like to see loot drop in all areas of space.



That's how you fix it.

I don't understand why such safety is expected. It's not like there are any other examples of a "sympathy" fairy spiriting your wrecks loot away.
Dagda Morr
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#168 - 2015-09-18 08:35:47 UTC
Just when I think CCP have become completely divorced from what makes eve fun you go and post this! Really like the mitigation factor but would like to see the numebrs tweaked a bit - my only concern is that 60x dreads is a fairly trivial number, big coalitions can hit multiple XL citadels at once under this mechanism and make it extremely hard to defend. Hopefully the XL citadels will have some teeth - obviously they shouldn't be able to solo 60x dreads but I hope they can seriously maul an unsupported attacking fleet of dreads.
Langbaobao
Tr0pa de elite.
#169 - 2015-09-18 08:44:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Langbaobao
Ok, this is actually not bad, and I can't believe that CCP listened to people saying that structures should be DPSable. It gives me finally some hope for CCP. IMHO sov itself and everything related to sov (like indexes, production and so on) should be entosis driven, while structures should be DPSable.

Damage mitigation is actually not bad as mechanic to limit the actual DPS amounts that you have to apply, thus lowering the requirements enough that even small entities with 30 man fleets can easily take down stuff. Overall I think it's a good proposal which finally takes into consideration some of the feedback that people have been trying to make CCP aware of in the last few months. There are however a few things that I think need some tweaking, and in particular:

1) Structures and SOV should be separated, the former requiring DPSing, and sov entirely entosis driven. I know that they've mentioned that in the deblog already, but I think it should be emphasized.

2) IMHO the vulnerability windows should be larger. I know that the reasoning behind the reduced vulnerability windows is that it helps smaller entities, but still, 3 hours of vulnerability per week for small citadels and 6 h/week for large ones is a bit too small I think. Especially when the whole vulnerability window can be shoved into one day per week, thus making the structure invulnerable the other 6 days. I think the numbers should be tweaked. Also, maybe a system where there is a diminishing returns system implemented could be the way to go. This way if you set your vulnerability window to be a small amount every day or every second day would incur no or very small penalties, while if you set it all in only one day then you would get a penalty to vulnerability that would increase that window by a certain amount (dunno, maybe 50%?). So for example if you have a large citadel (6 h/week of vulnerability), if you put one hour of vulnerability per day you would have no penalty (=6 h/week total), if you put them every second day the vulnerability window would increase by 25% (=7.5 hours of vulnerability per week), and if you put it all in only one day you get a 50% penalty (9 h/week). Hope this gets my point across.

3) Medium and Large Citadels should have some form of defense akin to current POSes since M and L citadels will be used as a substitute for these. These defenses would not threaten an organized fleet, even a relatively modest one but would discourage trolling. Since you've mentioned that you're looking for a way to discourage trolling without putting throwaway assets, this could be a way to go. XL citadels on the other hand should not have defenses since they will act primarily as substitutes for outposts and will require a non trolly amount of assets to be deployed to affect them or kill them.

4) If a citadel is destroyed the person inside should spawn in the ship he was in at the same spot where the citadel was before (akin to what happens currently with POSes). This was discussed previously when we had the first citadel blogs, but I would like to reiterate. Otherwise people will just use the workaround of undocking in their ship from the citadel and log off while being invulnerable and I think CCP has agreed as well that in such a situation is it is basically useless to swim against the stream since people will use the workaround anyway and it will make everything just unnecessarily tedious.

5) Also CCP plz, loot pinatas for everyone, not just WH, although not necessarily with the same percentages as WHs. Maybe for example outside of WHs a certain percentage can drop and the rest goes back to the original owner like described in previous blogs (although I'm still against magical Pony Express to lowsec)
Gyges Skyeye
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#170 - 2015-09-18 09:04:10 UTC
On the subject of Damage Mitigation.

Pros:
Creates predictable behavior and engagement patterns which can be tweaked for balance
Places a sanity check on how many people are needed for a thing

Cons:
When the number of people needed for a thing is achieved, everyone else who wanted to participate may as well go f*ck off.


Proposed Change:
Damage mitigated instead extends the reinforcement timer by some amount. This number can then be balanced, or provide diminishing returns, as appropriate.


Probable outcomes:
Everyone can now participate in an op, in a damage ship, beyond just the first 20 dreads to show up. They can feel useful about doing so.

Extended reinforcement timers allow for skirmishes and pauses, pulses in combat to happen while people jockey for positioning.

Extended reinforcement timers generated in high player count fights allow for distant parties to dogpile into the scrum returning -the chance- of a new B-R, Asakai, etc.

Edge cases of super, 24 hour long reinforcement timers likely wont happen as the structure would probably be blown up before that was even possible.

Default reinforcement timers can probably be balanced to be shorter to reduce pooper scooper duty if players are given a way to sandbox them into longer timers as a result of their active, -committed- actions.


---

That's my 0.02 isk on damage mitigation.
Tara Anju
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#171 - 2015-09-18 09:07:52 UTC
I like the described mechanics but I must admit I am a bit confused now.

Does all this only aply to citadels or other upcoming structures (mining stations, sensor arrays, ...) as well?

What about that command node spawning mechanic?

I really liked that idea of spreding combat over a whole region and making the topography of a regin matter in combat.

Is that all obsolete now?

Please clarify which mechanic applies to which parts of structure / sov warfare.
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#172 - 2015-09-18 09:10:24 UTC
Will there be any mechanic in place to prevent indefinitely abandoned structures?

I understand this is more of an issue with starbases, as there are a finite number of moons per system. However even with severely reduced anchoring restrictions I can see certain areas of space being packed with old structures from defunct corps. Will there be a more direct method to dispose of (and hopefully loot) these?
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#173 - 2015-09-18 09:15:34 UTC
Tara Anju wrote:
I like the described mechanics but I must admit I am a bit confused now.

Does all this only aply to citadels or other upcoming structures (mining stations, sensor arrays, ...) as well?

What about that command node spawning mechanic?

I really liked that idea of spreding combat over a whole region and making the topography of a regin matter in combat.

Is that all obsolete now?

Please clarify which mechanic applies to which parts of structure / sov warfare.


This will pretty much apply to all future structures also (aside from sov-related ones like TCUs).

The trouble with command nodes for non-sov structures is two-fold:

1) You're fighting for control of the structure itself, not control of the area as with sov. It makes sense that stand-alone structures are conquered through firepower.

2) These structures are meant to work in all kinds of space rather than just nullsec. This in turn brings around limitations when you move constellation-based fighting to other kinds of space; how would it work in wormholes, or when one side doesn't have the security status to move freely within a full high-sec constellation? It's best to keep things consistent in a way that works everywhere.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#174 - 2015-09-18 09:32:54 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
afkalt wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Maenth wrote:
The vast majority of what I see in this dev blog is pretty cool and I'm happy, and want to know more!

However, I must agree with one or more people on one point:
Quote:
We revaluated our position on Wormhole space asset safety from our “I feel safe in Citadel city” blog. Structures destroyed in wormhole space will see all of their assets lost when destroyed and subject to the magical loot fairy rules that would normally apply for ship cargohold.

That is not okay.

Everybody gets absolutely nonsensically magical asset safety but then destroyed citadels in wormholes can't even shunt their loots to a friendly citadel within the same system?

That is not okay.

Either everybody who sets up a Citadel should get a degree of asset safety out of it, or nobody should. Pickiong wormhole people to not get even the fraction of 'asset safety' that everybody else benefits from.... Even within the heartless world of destruction that is EVE, that's pretty unfair and cruel.


CCP is caught between a rock and a hard place on this one. A very vocal group asked for loot drop in WH space. CCP listened to their arguments and complied. Now the other side is coming out to register their complaints. Personally, I would like to see loot drop in all areas of space.



That's how you fix it.

I don't understand why such safety is expected. It's not like there are any other examples of a "sympathy" fairy spiriting your wrecks loot away.


I completely agree. Asset safety via magical space fairies has no place in Eve. All structures should have 50% of the contents destroyed and 50% drop as loot. Don't build what you cannot afford to lose.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2015-09-18 09:58:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
FT Diomedes wrote:
afkalt wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Maenth wrote:
The vast majority of what I see in this dev blog is pretty cool and I'm happy, and want to know more!

However, I must agree with one or more people on one point:
Quote:
We revaluated our position on Wormhole space asset safety from our “I feel safe in Citadel city” blog. Structures destroyed in wormhole space will see all of their assets lost when destroyed and subject to the magical loot fairy rules that would normally apply for ship cargohold.

That is not okay.

Everybody gets absolutely nonsensically magical asset safety but then destroyed citadels in wormholes can't even shunt their loots to a friendly citadel within the same system?

That is not okay.

Either everybody who sets up a Citadel should get a degree of asset safety out of it, or nobody should. Pickiong wormhole people to not get even the fraction of 'asset safety' that everybody else benefits from.... Even within the heartless world of destruction that is EVE, that's pretty unfair and cruel.


CCP is caught between a rock and a hard place on this one. A very vocal group asked for loot drop in WH space. CCP listened to their arguments and complied. Now the other side is coming out to register their complaints. Personally, I would like to see loot drop in all areas of space.



That's how you fix it.

I don't understand why such safety is expected. It's not like there are any other examples of a "sympathy" fairy spiriting your wrecks loot away.


I completely agree. Asset safety via magical space fairies has no place in Eve. All structures should have 50% of the contents destroyed and 50% drop as loot. Don't build what you cannot afford to lose.


It's not just the building and losing though, these structures are supposed to be used as market hubs, who will put stuff in them to sell if it can all go boom without some kind of assurances on asset safety? Note I said assurance not insurance as that opens up exploits.

There needs to be some kind of balance between safety and no safety. Perhaps in the event of a wardec in hisec or losec any stuff on the market or belonging to non corp pilots should be magicated away but the structure owning corps stuff is at some degree of risk. I quite liked the idea proposed earlier where larger structures help mitigate losses more (although this would need to be balanced with the increased fuel usage to make smaller structures viable if somewhat more risky.

nullsec and WH should use the proposed mechanic of warp away cans that pop up in the owners planetary launches menu since there won't be NPC's out there to ferry it (NPC null would have magication but some risk of loss perhaps).

Anything that is actually 'lost' should drop as loot.

ED: Another idea, perhaps the NPC magication of goods should be dependent on one or more 'Emergency Evac' modules being fitted. Increased safety for goods would mean decreased utility on the station itself.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#176 - 2015-09-18 10:25:11 UTC
Langbaobao wrote:
Ok, this is actually not bad, and I can't believe that CCP listened to people saying that structures should be DPSable. It gives me finally some hope for CCP. IMHO sov itself and everything related to sov (like indexes, production and so on) should be entosis driven, while structures should be DPSable.

Damage mitigation is actually not bad as mechanic to limit the actual DPS amounts that you have to apply, thus lowering the requirements enough that even small entities with 30 man fleets can easily take down stuff. Overall I think it's a good proposal which finally takes into consideration some of the feedback that people have been trying to make CCP aware of in the last few months. There are however a few things that I think need some tweaking, and in particular:

1) Structures and SOV should be separated, the former requiring DPSing, and sov entirely entosis driven. I know that they've mentioned that in the deblog already, but I think it should be emphasized.

2) IMHO the vulnerability windows should be larger. I know that the reasoning behind the reduced vulnerability windows is that it helps smaller entities, but still, 3 hours of vulnerability per week for small citadels and 6 h/week for large ones is a bit too small I think. Especially when the whole vulnerability window can be shoved into one day per week, thus making the structure invulnerable the other 6 days. I think the numbers should be tweaked. Also, maybe a system where there is a diminishing returns system implemented could be the way to go. This way if you set your vulnerability window to be a small amount every day or every second day would incur no or very small penalties, while if you set it all in only one day then you would get a penalty to vulnerability that would increase that window by a certain amount (dunno, maybe 50%?). So for example if you have a large citadel (6 h/week of vulnerability), if you put one hour of vulnerability per day you would have no penalty (=6 h/week total), if you put them every second day the vulnerability window would increase by 25% (=7.5 hours of vulnerability per week), and if you put it all in only one day you get a 50% penalty (9 h/week). Hope this gets my point across.

3) Medium and Large Citadels should have some form of defense akin to current POSes since M and L citadels will be used as a substitute for these. These defenses would not threaten an organized fleet, even a relatively modest one but would discourage trolling. Since you've mentioned that you're looking for a way to discourage trolling without putting throwaway assets, this could be a way to go. XL citadels on the other hand should not have defenses since they will act primarily as substitutes for outposts and will require a non trolly amount of assets to be deployed to affect them or kill them.

4) If a citadel is destroyed the person inside should spawn in the ship he was in at the same spot where the citadel was before (akin to what happens currently with POSes). This was discussed previously when we had the first citadel blogs, but I would like to reiterate. Otherwise people will just use the workaround of undocking in their ship from the citadel and log off while being invulnerable and I think CCP has agreed as well that in such a situation is it is basically useless to go again the stream since people will use the workaround and it will make everything just unnecessarily tedious.

5) Also CCP plz, loot pinatas for everyone, not just WH, although not necessarily with the same percentages as WHs. Maybe for example outside of WHs a certain percentage can drop and the rest goes back to the original owner like described in previous blogs (although I'm still against magical Pony Express to lowsec)



Solid post, agree on all points!

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#177 - 2015-09-18 10:39:31 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:

I completely agree. Asset safety via magical space fairies has no place in Eve. All structures should have 50% of the contents destroyed and 50% drop as loot. Don't build what you cannot afford to lose.


It's not just the building and losing though, these structures are supposed to be used as market hubs, who will put stuff in them to sell if it can all go boom without some kind of assurances on asset safety? Note I said assurance not insurance as that opens up exploits.

There needs to be some kind of balance between safety and no safety. Perhaps in the event of a wardec in hisec or losec any stuff on the market or belonging to non corp pilots should be magicated away but the structure owning corps stuff is at some degree of risk. I quite liked the idea proposed earlier where larger structures help mitigate losses more (although this would need to be balanced with the increased fuel usage to make smaller structures viable if somewhat more risky.

nullsec and WH should use the proposed mechanic of warp away cans that pop up in the owners planetary launches menu since there won't be NPC's out there to ferry it (NPC null would have magication but some risk of loss perhaps).

Anything that is actually 'lost' should drop as loot.

ED: Another idea, perhaps the NPC magication of goods should be dependent on one or more 'Emergency Evac' modules being fitted. Increased safety for goods would mean decreased utility on the station itself.



That's a can of worms though. Why do some areas get special snowflake treatment?

It's the same in *every* area of eve. Someone "expecting" a level of item safety in say, a freighter, is laughed off these boards - and rightly so.

Why do other areas qualify for special snowflake treatment?

Did I miss a bit in the blog which says people can't evac when it is RFd? Serisou question, I might have, I was doing a lot at once when I read it. If I did not and evac is viable....there's literally no good reason for this whatsoever.

Ed: Had to chop some quotes
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#178 - 2015-09-18 11:01:50 UTC  |  Edited by: xttz
afkalt wrote:

It's the same in *every* area of eve. Someone "expecting" a level of item safety in say, a freighter, is laughed off these boards - and rightly so.

Why do other areas qualify for special snowflake treatment?

Did I miss a bit in the blog which says people can't evac when it is RFd? Serisou question, I might have, I was doing a lot at once when I read it. If I did not and evac is viable....there's literally no good reason for this whatsoever.


In order to lose a freighter you *have* to be logged in and playing the game. You're actively in a position to mitigate any risk via in-game action.

Structures are persistent items that have to balance risk with the concept that players cannot be around 24/7 to mitigate it. EVE is (in theory at least) a video game and not a job. That means accommodating real life events such as players getting sick, going on holiday, looking after family, and any other scenario that could result in them being away from their hobby for a few days or more. By not providing scope for players to step away for a time, CCP would actively alienate a majority of players from using their brand new feature that's receiving so much development time. At best the feature would be under-utilised, at worst players would simply not play anymore.

It's hardly 'special snowflake treatment' to draw a line between a player actively logged in the game and able to take action, and a player who could lose months or years worth of assets to a real life calamity.

Edit: There's also a tangible benefit from players feeling safer; it provides more targets for others to shoot at. I don't know about you, but I'd rather kill 100 structures that drop limited loot, than a loot pinata that rarely ever occurs because no one takes the risk.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#179 - 2015-09-18 11:09:09 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
xttz wrote:
afkalt wrote:

It's the same in *every* area of eve. Someone "expecting" a level of item safety in say, a freighter, is laughed off these boards - and rightly so.

Why do other areas qualify for special snowflake treatment?

Did I miss a bit in the blog which says people can't evac when it is RFd? Serisou question, I might have, I was doing a lot at once when I read it. If I did not and evac is viable....there's literally no good reason for this whatsoever.


In order to lose a freighter you *have* to be logged in and playing the game. You're actively in a position to mitigate any risk via in-game action.

Structures are persistent items that have to balance risk with the concept that players cannot be around 24/7 to mitigate it. EVE is (in theory at least) a video game and not a job. That means accommodating real life events such as players getting sick, going on holiday, looking after family, and any other scenario that could result in them being away from their hobby for a few days or more. By not providing scope for players to step away for a time, CCP would actively alienate a majority of players from using their brand new feature that's receiving so much development time. At best the feature would be under-utilised, at worst players would simply not play anymore.

It's hardly 'special snowflake treatment' to draw a line between a player actively logged in the game and able to take action, and a player who could lose months or years worth of assets to a real life calamity.




You are correct, but the very same situation exists today, in wormholes. 2 days out of the game and the whole place can be torn down.

So the precedent is here today, which is why I'm not seeing the problem.

I do not disagree with your overall reasoning, my question is more down the path of "but this can happen today and that's deemed ok....so why change it?"

Unless we're just placing WH to one side as the special super hardcore snowflakes - in which case I'll shut up Smile
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#180 - 2015-09-18 11:12:56 UTC
Well, in order to put yourself in a position where you could lose your assets in a citadel also requires logging in. It's a beneficial choice without any risk.

What this proposed asset safety means in practice is that nobody will ever have to defend it, since their sutff is magicked into safety without any actions from them. You'll only defend a disposable structure, just set up a new one elsewhere and carry on.