EVE New Citizens Q&A

Obviously, I'm new to eve, and considering everyone says 'train/fly small ships when you're new so you don't overstep yourself, rush into big ships and fail', I was looking at some of the T2 combat frigates, seeing as they don't require a lot of training compared to, say, a cruiser and are nice and cheap, plus being able to hold their own in 'real' PvP.

So, the two factions I've been looking at are Caldari and Amarr, and in particular ships:
Amarr:
Navy Slicer
Retribution
Crusader
Caldari:
Navy Hookbill
Hawk/Harpy
Crow/Raptor

If some experienced players could give me some info on what these ships' relative merits are, which are good for newbies, any that I may have looked over, if I'm even right in thinking about T2 frigs, etc, etc, that would be great!

Welcome to Eve.

I'm sure others will give more info for each specific ship. I mainly fly Minmatar.

The Amarr Navy Slicer is a Faction Frigate, not T2.

The Retribution is an Assault Frigate which is T2.

The Crusader is an Interceptor which is T2.

The Caldari Navy Hookbill is a Faction Frigate, not T2.

The Hawk and Harpy are Assault Frigates which is T2.

The Crow and Raptor are Interceptors which is T2.

Well, starting out I'd forget about going with the Faction Frigates until you get experienced. No reason to give extra Kill Mail points to opponents. Next you have to decide if you wanna be Fast Tackle (Interceptor) or DPS (Assault Frigate). If going with Tackle then you'll want to be in a fleet. If going solo then the Assault Frigates would probably be best. Next you have to decide which type of weapon system you want, Missiles or Turrets. That basically dictates the type of stance you want - long range kiting or in your face brawler.

Anyway, I know I raised more questions to your questions. Sorry about that, this is the way of Eve.

May you have a long and rewarding career here.


DMC

My rule of thumb is this: fly with a certain ship (or class of ships) until you are comfortable using them. Then advance.

Tech 2 ships are generally "specializations" of Tech 1 ships with moderate performance increases in certain areas (depending on the general specialty) and less performance in others.

Some examples:
- Tech 2 Assault Frigates can take more and dish out more damage than Tech 1 Frigates... but are generally slower and have more restrictive CPU and PG.

- Tech 2 Interceptors are very fast, very nimble, and have bonuses that make it easier to use a Warp Disruptor. However they are paper thin compared to Tech 1 Frigates and deal beesting-like damage (see: by yourself, you are not going to kill much).


Faction Frigates are more or less straight upgrades of Tech 1 ships... but only nominally. They generally have 50% more HP, deal a little more damage, and are a little faster. But you pay a lot more for that performance increase (which insurance won't cover).

Destroyers are a different class of their own. They excel at chewing up frigates (of all kinds) at close range and, in enough numbers, anything larger than them. But they lack speed and have about the same tank as a very beefy Tech 1 Frigate (or lightly tanked Tech 2 Frigate).


All this said... it is very possible for Tech 1 Frigates to hold their own against any of the above. You just have to fit it properly and plan around taking on certain ships in certain situations.
Many veterans, no matter how rich, continually use Tech 1 Frigates well into their EVE careers.

Frigate pvp is as real as it gets, just because it's best to use as a new player (due to skills) that doesn't somehow mean that seasoned players thus automatically "move on" to something bigger. There's lots and lots of game mechanics at work to make sure that bigger isn't necessarily better and even in big boy fleets they still need frigates for specific roles so if you enjoy the speedy nature of frigate combat then you'll be just fine.


With that said: using bling gear (be it ships or modules) in and of itself doesn't somehow grant you wins, it's not "I have more purples than you so I win", there is no "must fly T2 in order to succeed". T2 ships tend to be specialised versions which means that they might work really well in one situation but worse than the T1 equivalent in another. Faction ships are VERY expensive and while they can be awesome it doesn't somehow mean that you'll do better in them.

A good example is the Navy Slicer. People will tell you it's an amazing ship blahblahblahblah but they "forget" to tell you that it requires really good piloting and lots of skill points in order to not suck out and, lets be honest, most people aren't that good. As a newbie you won't have the understanding and experience to make it happen so If you buy 10 slicers you'll lose all 10 JUST as fast, if not faster, than the T1 version (Executioner). In fact the Executioner is an awesome PVP ship and will be easier to use, more forgiving on low skill points and better in many circumstances than the slicer or even its T2 variant (Crusader).

This goes for all T1 frigs really, all 4 factions have really good pvp frigates, cheap as hell (many you even get for free from the career tutorial), easy to fit and use and actually quite strong. T2/faction versions CAN do better in the right situation but if you lack the skills & understanding to make them work then they're just a more expensive liability. They can make good pilots better but they don't make bad or inexperienced pilots good.

I'd not waste training time on T2 ships for now (unless they give you a tactical option you really want to aim for) nor would I waste money on faction ships. It won't help you and having a killboard full of navy slicer losses is just going to look awkward.

I just wanted to add to the excellent posts so far by pointing out that in Eve bigger is not better it's just different. There is no ship progression in the sense that you are flying frigate now only because you don't have the skill points for capital ships. People fly small and medium ships because they are fun and as an added bonus easily replaceable. There are plenty of PvPers that have been playing this game for years and almost never sit in anything bigger than a cruiser.

So don't look at small ships like a stepping stone to larger ones. Some people have even made comments hinting that the fun factor of ships in Eve is inversely proportional to it's size.

You seem to be looking at amarr laser ships, and caldari missile/rocket ships. I assume this is because you have some basic skill in both? In that case I would like to suggest an addition to the list of ships you are considering: the vengeance.

The vengeance is a bit of an unusual mix, it is an amarr T2 assault frigate with a missiles/rockets bonus. It is not hard to fit, can fit an incredibly good armour tank (I once took on two vexor cruisers in a single vengeance) and with 3 mid slots it can fit web scram and prop and make a great brawler or edge of scram kiter.

Go watch these to get an idea:

Kestrel
Executioner
PVP tactics

I second the idea of starting with T1 ships. However, I want to point out that you left my favorite assault frigate off your list (the vengeance). It is IMO the best of the bunch because of it's amazing tank and versatility. It can hold its own against other frigates but is also a great heavy tackle ship because it can very easily dispatch drones with rockets, which makes it ideal for getting under the guns of big ships and holding them there.

recon 5 was the first, and logi was the second. AF/Interceptors were mostly later on for the sake of completeness. EAF 5 was rather recent, but they are also rather new ships, and have very strong bonuses. On my alt who has maxed out scanning stuff, and good ewar skills, I think I did recon and cov ops 5 rather early.

as far as the frigs go, there are many good ones and many conditions that can create victory or defeat. Good Ceptor pilots are pretty much always in demand, and as I said earlier EAFs have very big bonuses, so they can be very useful in a gang. Learning with a mix of t1 frigs and faction frigs is probably a decent way to go as isk losses should be rather minimal. With assault frigs my biggest worry is speed.

and maybe take a look at tech 3 destroyers. they are very strong, use many similar skills to frigs, and get a big insurance payout.

There are of course also Pirate Frigates such as the Gamur, Daredevil, Dramiel and Worm.

These have specific uses (such as burner missions) and are relatively easy to qualify for but hard to fly well. They are expensive so its not really a good idea to get into them too early.