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Solo Guardian vs Exequror
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Super Miguel
Trillium Invariant
Honorable Third Party
#1 - 2015-09-17 15:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Super Miguel
So my corp needs a solo Armor logi, i currently able to use all T1, the Scimitar and the Guardian... still 20 days until i can use the Oneiros (prefered) so im wondering whats better to use for the next 20 days... a cap stable guardian or a exequror


Example of a cap stable guardian:


[Guardian, Solo Guardian]
Damage Control II
Energized Thermic Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Steel Plates I

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II
Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II

Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x4

or

[Guardian, Guardian]
Damage Control II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
1600mm Steel Plates I

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II

Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x4
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-09-17 15:31:50 UTC
No prop mod?
Super Miguel
Trillium Invariant
Honorable Third Party
#3 - 2015-09-17 15:39:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Super Miguel
Frostys Virpio wrote:
No prop mod?


ya not sure ill use one, but! let me see

I can do something like this:

[Guardian, import 1]
Damage Control II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
1600mm Steel Plates II

Cap Recharger II
10MN Afterburner II

Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Medium Remote Armor Repairer II
Medium Remote Armor Repairer II

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II

Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x5
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#4 - 2015-09-17 16:25:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Unsuccessful At Everything
Your corp needs a "solo armor logi", but you are not telling us what kind of fleet it needs to support.

If you are going to be supporting 5 Thoraxes, an Exequororiorereeerrr will be fine as a Guard wil only serve to make you lose the ISK war.

If you are supporting 5 Deimoseses, then maybe a solo Guardian would be ok, although you could probably be just fine having 2 people fly Exequororororioreers and still come in under half the cost of a solo Guardian.

If you are supporting 5 Vigilants, than a Guard is probably best.

It all depends on what you are trying to do with your fleet.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Super Miguel
Trillium Invariant
Honorable Third Party
#5 - 2015-09-17 17:12:32 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Your corp needs a "solo armor logi", but you are not telling us what kind of fleet it needs to support.

If you are going to be supporting 5 Thoraxes, an Exequororiorereeerrr will be fine as a Guard wil only serve to make you lose the ISK war.

If you are supporting 5 Deimoseses, then maybe a solo Guardian would be ok, although you could probably be just fine having 2 people fly Exequororororioreers and still come in under half the cost of a solo Guardian.

If you are supporting 5 Vigilants, than a Guard is probably best.

It all depends on what you are trying to do with your fleet.


3 Apocalypse, 3 Megathron, 1 revelation, raven, something like that
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#6 - 2015-09-17 17:28:22 UTC
Super Miguel wrote:
3 Apocalypse, 3 Megathron, 1 revelation, raven, something like that


Why the hell would you fly that supported by only 1 Logi?

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Super Miguel
Trillium Invariant
Honorable Third Party
#7 - 2015-09-17 17:32:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Super Miguel
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Super Miguel wrote:
3 Apocalypse, 3 Megathron, 1 revelation, raven, something like that


Why the hell would you fly that supported by only 1 Logi?


Thats all we have for now... Looking for more but thats all we have now :( just trying to look for the best option
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#8 - 2015-09-17 17:39:09 UTC
Super Miguel wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Super Miguel wrote:
3 Apocalypse, 3 Megathron, 1 revelation, raven, something like that


Why the hell would you fly that supported by only 1 Logi?


Thats all we have for now... Looking for more but thats all we have now :( just trying to look for the best option


Make the fail armor Raven fly a logi instead, then you have 2 Guardians with a proper cap chain.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#9 - 2015-09-17 17:50:17 UTC
Ships and Modules is thataway, Fantastico Arrow




Roll

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Super Miguel
Trillium Invariant
Honorable Third Party
#10 - 2015-09-17 17:51:15 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Super Miguel wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Super Miguel wrote:
3 Apocalypse, 3 Megathron, 1 revelation, raven, something like that


Why the hell would you fly that supported by only 1 Logi?


Thats all we have for now... Looking for more but thats all we have now :( just trying to look for the best option


Make the fail armor Raven fly a logi instead, then you have 2 Guardians with a proper cap chain.


lets assume that it is just me, im better off running a guardian or a exequror? Im logi V and if Guardian what fit?
Super Miguel
Trillium Invariant
Honorable Third Party
#11 - 2015-09-17 18:01:01 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
Ships and Modules is thataway, Fantastico Arrow




Roll


sorry ill create it there
Romvex
TURN LEFT
#12 - 2015-09-17 18:10:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Romvex
Super Miguel wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Super Miguel wrote:
3 Apocalypse, 3 Megathron, 1 revelation, raven, something like that


Why the hell would you fly that supported by only 1 Logi?


Thats all we have for now... Looking for more but thats all we have now :( just trying to look for the best option

Fielding that kind of fleet with a single logi cruiser will end horribly just don't do that until you have true dedicated logi chains. And why exactly are you throwing around a random revelation?
Super Miguel
Trillium Invariant
Honorable Third Party
#13 - 2015-09-17 18:44:27 UTC
Romvex wrote:
Super Miguel wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Super Miguel wrote:
3 Apocalypse, 3 Megathron, 1 revelation, raven, something like that


Why the hell would you fly that supported by only 1 Logi?


Thats all we have for now... Looking for more but thats all we have now :( just trying to look for the best option

Fielding that kind of fleet with a single logi cruiser will end horribly just don't do that until you have true dedicated logi chains. And why exactly are you throwing around a random revelation?

1 > 0
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#14 - 2015-09-17 18:48:17 UTC
Take a look at some of the AT losses (PE1-R1 system) for an idea on how a solo guardian should work. Trying to make cap rechargers work is an exercise in futility, you need to go cap boosted to get any kind of tank.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#15 - 2015-09-17 18:50:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
One logi is going to lack the repping power to support that fleet against potential opponents.

As s result, if you prefer to fly a support ship, ewar will be more useful than logi if you can only field one.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#16 - 2015-09-17 18:54:28 UTC
Super Miguel wrote:
Romvex wrote:

Fielding that kind of fleet with a single logi cruiser will end horribly just don't do that until you have true dedicated logi chains. And why exactly are you throwing around a random revelation?

1 > 0


You may want to look into "spider tanking" instead of running 1 Logi. A RR battleship fleet can be pretty beastly when run right.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#17 - 2015-09-17 19:04:20 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Super Miguel wrote:
Romvex wrote:

Fielding that kind of fleet with a single logi cruiser will end horribly just don't do that until you have true dedicated logi chains. And why exactly are you throwing around a random revelation?

1 > 0


You may want to look into "spider tanking" instead of running 1 Logi. A RR battleship fleet can be pretty beastly when run right.

This is also a good suggestion.

Spider tanker reps don't get the range bonus of a guardian, so everything needs to stay close but they can be effective if used well.

The issue with your one Guardian is just the basic math.

4 x large solace = 1586 HP / 4.5 sec (no heat)

That means you can rep through 352 applied DPS.

If the opposing fleet can apply more damage than that, your 1 logi is less than useless.

If all your fleet have extremely high resists and they individually fly perfectly it can work, but if the opposition have webs that can slow your guys down, or if someone makes a mistake, etc. you'll find yourself heating the reps and still not keeping your guys alive.

When it comes to logi it can be that:

1 !> 0
Super Miguel
Trillium Invariant
Honorable Third Party
#18 - 2015-09-17 19:06:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Super Miguel
honestly it was just a question to know what would be better, we wont run this way for PvP or anything serious.... just let says for example to go blow a POS or something would be nice to have a logi imo
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#19 - 2015-09-17 19:10:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Super Miguel wrote:
honestly it was just a question to know what would be better, we wont run this way for PvP or anything.... just let says for example to go blow a POS or something would be nice to have a logi imo

Then Guardian is better than Exequror.

The higher resists will be better if you are targeted by defensive guns, since there'll be no one to rep you. Fitting an ancillary rep in the lows will help your own survivability.

An AT Guardian fit will be useful in that situation. We didn't need to run a Guardian this year so I can't post s loss mail of my own, but as per the earlier suggestion, go look at losses in PE1-R1 for Guardians and once you are trained into an Oneiros, use that instead.

Here is one good example:

https://zkillboard.com/kill/48778395/

This year's meta was dominated by the use of rep bots to support logi, so no need for local reps and the reactive hardener was good enough with the buffer tank. Last year's fits are also with looking at.

As soon as a bash turns into a pvp situation though, your f'd unless it's an opponent your fleet could beat without logi anyway.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#20 - 2015-09-17 19:22:55 UTC
Super Miguel wrote:

1 > 0

Not with guardians mate.
That's actually just feeding whomever you engage a free caped out cruiser.

The oneros (shhh it's late here, **** spelling) would be a better option , still a crap idea for the kind of gang you mentioned but better than a solo guardian.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
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