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Does CCP have plans, or even usage guidelines, for medium missiles?
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Nicholas Goldfinder
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2015-09-16 10:55:49 UTC
I am a caldari pilot and skilling missiles, because pride.

This notwithstanding, there appear to be objective difficulties on the medium missiles weapon system (Does CCP have plans, or even usage guidelines, for medium missiles?).

Has CCP addressed this issue somewhere, maybe giving guidelines or stating about plans of reworking?

Also, has anyone a guide for making use of HML or HAMs and when those systems could be a viable pvp choice?
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#2 - 2015-09-16 13:11:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Have you looked at the RHML system itself or the Mordus ship line, Orthus and Barghest? The hulls and the weaponsystem address many of the issues missiles have in terms of PvP application like range and speed. Additionally the MGC modules allows freeing up of rigs for things like bufer, resists or more offensive type rigs or just generally improve application in addition to rigor and flare rigs.

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Thron Legacy
White Zulu
Scorpion Federation
#3 - 2015-09-16 19:37:20 UTC
HMLs are viable when you want to lose or blob
HAMs are viable when you want to actually do dmg or blob
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#4 - 2015-09-16 20:49:19 UTC
Once you get over the range issues, HAMs are awesome.

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Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#5 - 2015-09-16 23:01:49 UTC
Nicholas Goldfinder wrote:
I am a caldari pilot and skilling missiles, because pride.

This notwithstanding, there appear to be objective difficulties on the medium missiles weapon system (Does CCP have plans, or even usage guidelines, for medium missiles?).

Has CCP addressed this issue somewhere, maybe giving guidelines or stating about plans of reworking?

Also, has anyone a guide for making use of HML or HAMs and when those systems could be a viable pvp choice?


HAM Cerbs and Sacrileges have never been so OP and you want, more? Don't you have any shame?
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#6 - 2015-09-16 23:12:03 UTC
HAMs actually don't have very good application, they need scram/web to apply well to other Cruisers which basically negates any range advantage it has over Autocannons/Blasters.
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#7 - 2015-09-17 18:35:13 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
HAMs actually don't have very good application, they need scram/web to apply well to other Cruisers which basically negates any range advantage it has over Autocannons/Blasters.


Yeah... But then med AC/Blaster don't hit to 60km... On the right platform (Cerb/Sac), HAMs are awesome...
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-09-17 18:46:54 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
HAMs actually don't have very good application, they need scram/web to apply well to other Cruisers which basically negates any range advantage it has over Autocannons/Blasters.


As the above poster said, medium blasters apply no damage at range and auto cannons apply minimal. HAMs have a uniform damage application across it's entire range. The main benefit of missiles...

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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#9 - 2015-09-17 19:04:56 UTC
Thron Legacy wrote:
HMLs are viable when you want to lose or blob
HAMs are viable when you want to actually do dmg or blob


Heavies are in a pretty good spot at the moment. You got precision to hit below your size and CN/fury apply well to equal sized ships and above. HAMs are in a great spot, with a limited pool of suited hulls tho it would make more sense to mention those with the hull you got in mind, since 100mn HAM tengu, dualrep AB sacriledge and even heavy missile nighthawks fly very differently. Hamgu is great because it got brawler-level dps (700-740 depending on pimp or imps) out to 35km, Nighthawks benefit from precisions to hit small ships while being tanky with good cap to back up the kite, aswell as those 2 links :D, the sacriledge since the hull is awesome, and even being a low-dps vessel, it does have selectable 550dps without any damage mods like BCS for a very cheap pricetag.

The above quote is rather a testimony to a severe lack of experience using those missiles in a decent setup.
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#10 - 2015-09-18 02:25:02 UTC
Caius Sivaris wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
HAMs actually don't have very good application, they need scram/web to apply well to other Cruisers which basically negates any range advantage it has over Autocannons/Blasters.


Yeah... But then med AC/Blaster don't hit to 60km... On the right platform (Cerb/Sac), HAMs are awesome...


You will be using Javelin at that range at which point you are better off using heavy missiles. Also, Sac will only hit to 40ish with Jav Hams, and if your target isn't hard tackled, these will be applying very poorly to anything Cruiser or smaller. For example on a Sacrilege, Jav Hams do 234dps @ 46km compared to 226 dps @ 94km with faction HMs, the HMs have better damage application and much better range.

So this brings me back to my original point, if you're planning on shooting out further than scram/web range, you're better off using heavies. This fact means that if you're using HAMs, you should be in scram/web range to make the most of it. Even if you have long range webs/TPs for support, you might as well be using heavies in that case cause the extra range gives you much more flexibility.
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#11 - 2015-09-19 11:45:38 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Caius Sivaris wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
HAMs actually don't have very good application, they need scram/web to apply well to other Cruisers which basically negates any range advantage it has over Autocannons/Blasters.


Yeah... But then med AC/Blaster don't hit to 60km... On the right platform (Cerb/Sac), HAMs are awesome...


You will be using Javelin at that range at which point you are better off using heavy missiles.


Yup, but you have the option to switch to rage when something is actually close enough.

Quote:

Also, Sac will only hit to 40ish with Jav Hams, and if your target isn't hard tackled, these will be applying very poorly to anything Cruiser or smaller. For example on a Sacrilege, Jav Hams do 234dps @ 46km compared to 226 dps @ 94km with faction HMs, the HMs have better damage application and much better range.


If you can't get a Sacrilege to do at least 400dps at 60km (280+ from Javelin HAMs, 120+ from drones), I strongly suggest to biomass. And at that range, it's perfectly doable to have Rapiers webbing/painting, which is less the case at 80+km unless you go in crazy fit/overload abuse realm.

Quote:

So this brings me back to my original point, if you're planning on shooting out further than scram/web range, you're better off using heavies.


You have a very noobish view of what is web range....
Valkin Mordirc
#12 - 2015-09-19 13:59:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
Caius Sivaris wrote:


Quote:

So this brings me back to my original point, if you're planning on shooting out further than scram/web range, you're better off using heavies.


You have a very noobish view of what is web range....



With how slow Caldari and Amarr ships are to begin with. Trying to fight in Web range without links or faction webs pretty much will put you into Blaster range in a couple of seconds regardless. For the most part anything that works well with HAMs work better with RLML.


RLML are great on basically anything, HAMS works with certain hulls and HML work better now.


EDIT: Also if a Cerb gets in web range it's pretty much dead anyways. Same goes for the Orthrus/ SyFi and other missile boats, the only one that does it job best in brawler range in the Sac, and Tengu.
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