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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1861 - 2015-09-16 18:09:10 UTC
I still don't get why hoarding is a big deal. More value means more plexes sold to market... Even if there wasn't hoarding, it would be the same dollars. People selling plex is directly related to the value. So if one account buys 10, is the same from the wallet as 10 buying one. Would it not be better to get players in cause the game is... enjoyable instead of "if you farm hard and be miserable you can play for free?" Get more basic subbies that sell plex. Win.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1862 - 2015-09-16 18:36:19 UTC
If this thread now is about Plex, it took the wrong turn anyway.
Plex prices might be a symptom for anything, but they are not the cause for sinking player counts.

Banning, or stopping Plex trades is manipulating at the wrong places.
No wonder thats not a CCP idea, but some naive EvE players.
Since Blizzard tries to adopt that technique, one can be surely assume this Plextrade is a success-story.

So please do plex discussions into Plexprice threads, where they are useless too, but at least at the right place.


The real dilema is:
EvE is a nichè game, has this niché been proplerly processed by the markting ppl?
Or are the max nichè players reached?

Or should EvE adapt and move some way from the niche it has?

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Vollhov
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1863 - 2015-09-16 18:50:06 UTC
re-balance of vehicles and modules.
Changes Sovereignty.
Adding new ships and modules.
Adding of new content. "Invasion"
All good for me.
But why it was necessary to touch Lor?
I am pleased that the plex of soared after 21 August. It is a sign . Twisted

End of Time. I'm not fanatic, I'm just a servant by Her Majesty the Empress Jamyl Sarum I. It's time to leave this world to me. YC111 to YC117.12.10 20:00
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1864 - 2015-09-16 20:18:06 UTC
La Rynx wrote:

The real dilema is:
EvE is a nichè game, has this niché been proplerly processed by the markting ppl?
Or are the max nichè players reached?

Or should EvE adapt and move some way from the niche it has?


the real issue is that it is niche inside of niche. Nothing really integrates, Playing one way forces a completely different way. So play pirate? Farm incursions/mission to pay for stuff.

Run sov? Gotta moon mine and grind.

Want isk for a shiny mission ship? Play the markets.

It is a sandbox, I want to build a castle using pails, but am told I need to do so using a water gun. There are just not the correct tools for many of the different ways to play eve. Any low/null lifestyle should always be most successful if it can detach itself from highsec sustainably.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1865 - 2015-09-17 09:10:07 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
It would now appear there are two open threads about plex prices. Time for ISD to lock at lwast one of them.



One, why do you care?

Two, Neither of those threads are this one... so why post it here?

Roll


1. I don't care.

2. This is one of them.

Roll



1. You obviously do

2. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=439476 and https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=385249 are the two active Plex threads... this is not about plex.


1. Wrong. I care about slim to none in this forum.
2. One of those threads was not active when I posted. But when I posted there were 15 posts within 2 pages dscussing plex prices in this thread. Hence this thread is now about plex prices.

If you don't like that post something constructive and on topic.
Boom Laison
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1866 - 2015-09-17 11:16:11 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
But when I posted there were 15 posts within 2 pages dscussing plex prices in this thread. Hence this thread is now about plex prices.


Because it is PLEX prices first of all, that killed 1/3 of population in high sec and keep demolition of the target pool? Some ppl can afford themselves to subscribe account financially, but can not do it for social reasons. Like wife hates the game so much, that giving her more reasons to hassle is just not worth it. So - less players in this sandbox...
Fred Vendetta
Doomheim
#1867 - 2015-09-17 11:19:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Fred Vendetta
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Fred Vendetta wrote:
Or CCP could officially outlaw plex hoarding and warn/ban anyone who does it, while re-selling their hoarded plex back on the market in trade hubs.
Why would they do that? Every PLEX that is hoarded is money in the bank for services that might never be activated, not to mention that every one of those PLEX costs more than the equivalent sub.

Quote:
They're perfectly within their power to do it. PLEX hoarding could easily result in many lost subscribers from CCP due to PLEX prices becoming too high.
It may be in their power to do so, that doesn't make it a good idea. The PR backlash would be horrible for CCP.

Grinding isk for PLEX to pay to grind more isk for the next one is a terrible idea, if people are finding it hard to earn enough isk they need to re-evaluate either their play-style or their priorities. Turning what should be entertainment into a second job that pays literal peanuts is just dumb.

Quote:
Traders should not be able to hoard PLEX in order to profit from it because all it does is drive prices up higher. A self fulfilling prophecy.
They'll just hoard something else, everything on the market is a potential investment for profit. Furthermore your idea of not being able to hoard PLEX affects more than just traders, I've normally got 2 or 3 sat in a station and another in the redeem queue because they're an easily redeemable token for services from CCP and because I can sell one on the market occasionally for a quick cash injection. I haven't traded one for game time in months, I can earn the sub fee in less than 2 hours IRL as opposed to 10's of hours grinding ingame for isk.

I don't hoard them for profit, I hoard them for their value and utility; I'm sure that there are many others that do something in the same vein.



Exactly, every plex hoarded is a plex not used and potentially 1 less player. The trend of EVE losing players is not good for the health of the game, or the company.

They don't have to go after people who keep a couple of plex on hand. They need only stop people from hoarding dozens of them. I doubt they'll ever have to ban anyone because once it has been outlawed it would be stupid to try to hoard them.
Boom Laison
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1868 - 2015-09-17 11:39:28 UTC
Fred Vendetta wrote:
They need only stop people from hoarding dozens of them. I doubt they'll ever have to ban anyone because once it has been outlawed it would be stupid to try to hoard them.


1. Make game time available for AUR, not for PLEX.
2. Allow maximum of 24 PLEXes be converted for aurum, per account / year.

Problem fixed.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1869 - 2015-09-17 13:15:03 UTC
Boom Laison wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
But when I posted there were 15 posts within 2 pages dscussing plex prices in this thread. Hence this thread is now about plex prices.


Because it is PLEX prices first of all, that killed 1/3 of population in high sec and keep demolition of the target pool? Some ppl can afford themselves to subscribe account financially, but can not do it for social reasons. Like wife hates the game so much, that giving her more reasons to hassle is just not worth it. So - less players in this sandbox...


I suppose you have data to show for your claim that PLEX prices killed 1/3 of the high sec population right?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1870 - 2015-09-17 13:16:35 UTC
Boom Laison wrote:
Problem fixed.

What problem?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1871 - 2015-09-17 13:16:57 UTC
Fred Vendetta wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Fred Vendetta wrote:
Or CCP could officially outlaw plex hoarding and warn/ban anyone who does it, while re-selling their hoarded plex back on the market in trade hubs.
Why would they do that? Every PLEX that is hoarded is money in the bank for services that might never be activated, not to mention that every one of those PLEX costs more than the equivalent sub.

Quote:
They're perfectly within their power to do it. PLEX hoarding could easily result in many lost subscribers from CCP due to PLEX prices becoming too high.
It may be in their power to do so, that doesn't make it a good idea. The PR backlash would be horrible for CCP.

Grinding isk for PLEX to pay to grind more isk for the next one is a terrible idea, if people are finding it hard to earn enough isk they need to re-evaluate either their play-style or their priorities. Turning what should be entertainment into a second job that pays literal peanuts is just dumb.

Quote:
Traders should not be able to hoard PLEX in order to profit from it because all it does is drive prices up higher. A self fulfilling prophecy.
They'll just hoard something else, everything on the market is a potential investment for profit. Furthermore your idea of not being able to hoard PLEX affects more than just traders, I've normally got 2 or 3 sat in a station and another in the redeem queue because they're an easily redeemable token for services from CCP and because I can sell one on the market occasionally for a quick cash injection. I haven't traded one for game time in months, I can earn the sub fee in less than 2 hours IRL as opposed to 10's of hours grinding ingame for isk.

I don't hoard them for profit, I hoard them for their value and utility; I'm sure that there are many others that do something in the same vein.



Exactly, every plex hoarded is a plex not used and potentially 1 less player. The trend of EVE losing players is not good for the health of the game, or the company.

They don't have to go after people who keep a couple of plex on hand. They need only stop people from hoarding dozens of them. I doubt they'll ever have to ban anyone because once it has been outlawed it would be stupid to try to hoard them.


As long as there are PLEX left on the market on sell order, hoarded PLEX are not PLEX that would be used because the other ones are not even used yet. Supply will be a problem when there is nothing left on the market and as of right now, it is not the case.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1872 - 2015-09-17 16:26:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Fred Vendetta wrote:
Exactly, every plex hoarded is a plex not used and potentially 1 less player. The trend of EVE losing players is not good for the health of the game, or the company.
Sorry I disagree, every Plex hoarded is already money in the bank for CCP, and I see no way in which it is potentially one less player or any concrete evidence of losing players beyond the use of a metric that has little relation to the number of active, and hence paying, subscriptions.

Quote:
They don't have to go after people who keep a couple of plex on hand. They need only stop people from hoarding dozens of them. I doubt they'll ever have to ban anyone because once it has been outlawed it would be stupid to try to hoard them.
They don't have to go after anybody at all, any attempts to curtail the personal accumulation of wealth in the form of Plex would have unforeseen consequences; some SRP's are probably funded by a Plex stockpile, some of the investments in the MD forums are funded or secured by a Plex stockpile etc, etc.

Are you trying to drive the more creative and successful players out of Eve so that you can have your theme-park in space on the cheap?

What you're suggesting is the real life equivalent of somebody in government saying to the public, and business, "you're only allowed to have x amount of savings in the form of liquid cash, any more than that and we'll bang you up for 6 months"; cue one extremely pissed off population and the accompanying civil unrest.

That wouldn't end well, in Eve, or in real life.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1873 - 2015-09-17 17:19:33 UTC
It also isnt in CCP's interest to worry about that. Paid plex is money in the back. Like having investors without a board of directors. I would hope ccps concern is getting players in with a quality game experience, not ADD ftp.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#1874 - 2015-09-17 19:17:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Anne Dieu-le-veut
Boom Laison wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
But when I posted there were 15 posts within 2 pages dscussing plex prices in this thread. Hence this thread is now about plex prices.


Because it is PLEX prices first of all, that killed 1/3 of population in high sec and keep demolition of the target pool? Some ppl can afford themselves to subscribe account financially, but can not do it for social reasons. Like wife hates the game so much, that giving her more reasons to hassle is just not worth it. So - less players in this sandbox...


You're not contributing to CCP's bottom line. Why would they care if they lose you as a "customer".

I'm sure they'll get right on lowering the price of PLEX in game so your wife doesn't get pissed at you. Also, proof the price of PLEX killed high sec, please.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1875 - 2015-09-17 19:43:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus Reese
I really dont see how plex is the problem. People pay if they think it is good value. Wow back in the day was much more in the comparison to wages. It was fun though. If eve is engrossing and entertaining with return value, people will sub. So if people only pay for value, then what does it mean when people only want to pay nothing?

So back on the threadnaught, why does eve not have value worth paying to most players? No game is free, ask the devs. At the least, it is their spare time....

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1876 - 2015-09-17 20:08:29 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
I really dont see how plex is the problem. People pay if they think it is good value. Wow back in the day was much more in the comparison to wages. It was fun though. If eve is engrossing and entertaining with return value, people will sub. So if people only pay for value, then what does it mean when people only want to pay nothing?

So back on the threadnaught, why does eve not have value worth paying to most players? No game is free, ask the devs. At the least, it is their spare time....



Because we have had no new content since 2009 and all the patches since December 2009 have been focused on "Fixing" existing stuff.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1877 - 2015-09-17 20:18:56 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Because we have had no new content since 2009 and all the patches since December 2009 have been focused on "Fixing" existing stuff.


Ding ding ding! Back on track!

We have had new content, but is novelty. There is plenty of content that does need "fixing" but is fixing the wrong stuff. Ccp is starting at the end for some things. What is needed is a full roadmap. Am sure ccp has it, but so much to do, so little team perhaps.

Biggest issue I see is continual fidgeting rebalances. Rebalance just means combat is too simple at rate it happens.... I think time for a big writeup soon..

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1878 - 2015-09-17 20:32:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Because we have had no new content since 2009 and all the patches since December 2009 have been focused on "Fixing" existing stuff.
The focus on fixing stuff is post summer 2011, the period 2009-summer 2011 saw the introduction of the Pirate epic arcs, Planetary Interaction and Incursions, unfortunately it also saw CCP waste precious dev cycles on failing to deliver WiS in any meaningful way.

Incarna was the death knell for jesus features and the 6 monthly release cycle, the focus since then on fixing all the broken stuff incrementally, while not breaking anything else too badly, should be beneficial in the long run if CCP Seagulls vision comes to fruition.

Delivering new content relies on there being a robust and functional foundation to build upon, fixing code that is the better part of a decade old and probably undocumented is necessary for CCP to be able to have that robust and functional framework in place. Much still needs to be revisited, and CCP appear to be doing so in order to deliver us something that may be Apocrypha-like in scale if it manages to live up to their 5 year plan.

TL;DR What we see in the client and the patchnotes isn't the only dev work going on at CCP. They could be a little more forthcoming about how close they are to player stargates etc though, being kept in the dark does give the illusion that there is no plan, or that it isn't being followed.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1879 - 2015-09-17 21:31:23 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Because we have had no new content since 2009 and all the patches since December 2009 have been focused on "Fixing" existing stuff.


Ding ding ding! Back on track!

We have had new content, but is novelty. There is plenty of content that does need "fixing" but is fixing the wrong stuff. Ccp is starting at the end for some things. What is needed is a full roadmap. Am sure ccp has it, but so much to do, so little team perhaps.

Biggest issue I see is continual fidgeting rebalances. Rebalance just means combat is too simple at rate it happens.... I think time for a big writeup soon..


That made me smile.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1880 - 2015-09-17 21:36:41 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Because we have had no new content since 2009 and all the patches since December 2009 have been focused on "Fixing" existing stuff.
The focus on fixing stuff is post summer 2011, the period 2009-summer 2011 saw the introduction of the Pirate epic arcs, Planetary Interaction and Incursions, unfortunately it also saw CCP waste precious dev cycles on failing to deliver WiS in any meaningful way.

Incarna was the death knell for jesus features and the 6 monthly release cycle, the focus since then on fixing all the broken stuff incrementally, while not breaking anything else too badly, should be beneficial in the long run if CCP Seagulls vision comes to fruition.

Delivering new content relies on there being a robust and functional foundation to build upon, fixing code that is the better part of a decade old and probably undocumented is necessary for CCP to be able to have that robust and functional framework in place. Much still needs to be revisited, and CCP appear to be doing so in order to deliver us something that may be Apocrypha-like in scale if it manages to live up to their 5 year plan.

TL;DR What we see in the client and the patchnotes isn't the only dev work going on at CCP. They could be a little more forthcoming about how close they are to player stargates etc though, being kept in the dark does give the illusion that there is no plan, or that it isn't being followed.



Please go back through your history.

Incursions were introduced in 2010 (incursion)
Planetary Interaction was introduced in 2010 (Tyrannus)
New Epic Arcs added with WHs in 2009 (Apochrypha)
Wormholes in 2009 (Apochrypha)
Faction Warfare (2008)

So, starting in 2009/2010 everything we have in the game content wise was already in the game or announced for release. Again, we have had no real content added in over 5 years.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.