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Dev blog: Citadels, sieges and you v2

First post
Author
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2015-09-17 15:59:24 UTC
What are "service modules" - they're referenced in the blog as consuming fuel but without an explanation of whey are.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2015-09-17 15:59:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
This is really encouraging, there are probably a lot of happy capital and big fight pilots after seeing this.

And personally, as a Supercap pilot, I am really pleased to see that capital repairs wont be needed for repairing these structures. I always felt that massive structure hp neccessitated the high super/carrier repping power that stagnated capital combat, and I am really ecstatic to see a system that gets capitals and large fleets on grid but that doesn't force large remote-repair cap blobs to stay the future of cap combat.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#23 - 2015-09-17 16:00:00 UTC
Tobias Frank wrote:
Looks promising!

Also, will we get docking scenes in the new citadels as we have now in stations/outposts when we are docked? Ship spinning is an important feature!


No docking scene. When you dock, the camera will be centered around the structure instead, so you can now play structure spinning.
TheMercenaryKing
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-09-17 16:00:46 UTC
Couple of thoughts:

Use Entosis Link to disable guns on a Citadel (should they be added)
Use Entosis Link to Raise the DPS Mitigation cap.
Capital re-balance - Dread damage vs BS+BC and an out of siege damage buff.

CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2015-09-17 16:01:10 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
What are "service modules" - they're referenced in the blog as consuming fuel but without an explanation of whey are.


May want to read this blog if you haven't already.
Sbrodor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-09-17 16:01:42 UTC
omg. we fall back to the past!

i really dont see the point of difference of the past where 30 super of (choose your name favorite ally) again blobbing at own pleasure player trying to build something with time and effort.

Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#27 - 2015-09-17 16:04:47 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:
How are you going to prevent a single kiting sniper from applying damage constantly to prolong the repair timer until you have to go to sleep? Ie warp a sniper corm in at range, shoot once, warp off. Repeat this with a single pilot until you have to log off. It's nearly impossible to stop and you have effective control of the grid, but you can never repair your structure since they are taking pot shots at it.


I think once its fully Repped your out of luck from how I read it. If it takes no damage in 30 seconds repairs kick in. It takes 15 total minutes to fully repair. So if your kiting ship is not beating its repair rate, as you warp in and out it will have of just repaired itself up. Hence why having Grid control and getting your enemies off is important as quick as possible.

Shoot it once during repair and it stops for 30 seconds.
30 seconds go by and no damage is received in that time repair cycle kicks back in.
Kitey ship shoots it again, warps off.. 30 second pause.. DPS doesnt do much of anything to it tho
30 seconds go by and that damage is repped as well as more until the ship lands to shoot it again and then warp off.
30 seconds go by, damage was still negligible so it finished its repair cycle after 15 minutes of self-repair.
The repair completed after the vulnerability cycle due to 30 second pauses, and it went back to an Invulnerable state.

Compared to if a fleet was on field shooting it which would keep the repair cycle from restarting and eventually it would get reinforced or chased away.

If reinforced , wash, rinse, repeat x2 more times for armor and Structure.

If chased away and it had time to repair.. wait until next window.
Barubary Evans
Doomheim
#28 - 2015-09-17 16:07:36 UTC
Quote:
If the structure is invulnerable, a timer will be shown counting how much time left before it is vulnerable again

Doesn't this completely negate the line in the previous paragraph about having to actually put effort into scouting and infiltrating to know when something will be open to attack?

I would say to not show how long until the structure is vulnerable again, excepting if it's a timer created by damaging it previously. Make people actually do some homework instead of knowing instantly "show up at this time."
Lord Battlestar
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
Atrox Urbanis Respublique Abundatia
#29 - 2015-09-17 16:08:27 UTC
I like this idea, as it means dreadnaught pilots like myself actually still have a use, and all that sp doesn't feel like it was wasted.

I once podded myself by blowing a huge fart.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#30 - 2015-09-17 16:08:57 UTC
CCp actually listened to player feedback?

Who are you really and what have you done with CCP? Twisted
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#31 - 2015-09-17 16:09:30 UTC
Barubary Evans wrote:
Quote:
If the structure is invulnerable, a timer will be shown counting how much time left before it is vulnerable again

Doesn't this completely negate the line in the previous paragraph about having to actually put effort into scouting and infiltrating to know when something will be open to attack?

I would say to not show how long until the structure is vulnerable again, excepting if it's a timer created by damaging it previously. Make people actually do some homework instead of knowing instantly "show up at this time."


You still have to scout to get the timer. Full information would be to allow third parties to have full access on how the vulnerability weekly schedule looks like each week, which we won't give.
Aebe Amraen
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#32 - 2015-09-17 16:10:46 UTC
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
Andre Vauban wrote:
How are you going to prevent a single kiting sniper from applying damage constantly to prolong the repair timer until you have to go to sleep? Ie warp a sniper corm in at range, shoot once, warp off. Repeat this with a single pilot until you have to log off. It's nearly impossible to stop and you have effective control of the grid, but you can never repair your structure since they are taking pot shots at it.


I think once its fully Repped your out of luck from how I read it. If it takes no damage in 30 seconds repairs kick in. It takes 15 total minutes to fully repair. So if your kiting ship is not beating its repair rate, as you warp in and out it will have of just repaired itself up. Hence why having Grid control and getting your enemies off is important as quick as possible.

Shoot it once during repair and it stops for 30 seconds.
30 seconds go by and no damage is received in that time repair cycle kicks back in.
Kitey ship shoots it again, warps off.. 30 second pause.. DPS doesnt do much of anything to it tho
30 seconds go by and that damage is repped as well as more until the ship lands to shoot it again and then warp off.
30 seconds go by, damage was still negligible so it finished its repair cycle after 15 minutes of self-repair.
The repair completed after the vulnerability cycle due to 30 second pauses, and it went back to an Invulnerable state.

Compared to if a fleet was on field shooting it which would keep the repair cycle from restarting and eventually it would get reinforced or chased away.

If reinforced , wash, rinse, repeat x2 more times for armor and Structure.

If chased away and it had time to repair.. wait until next window.


Andre has a legitimate concern here. A cormorant with a lot of bookmarks can easily apply damage once every 30 seconds, from >100km out, while being nearly impossible to catch. It doesn't matter that he has **** damage, as long as he can keep the repair timer prolonged (until the rest of his fleet arrives, for example, or just until he gets tired of trolling).
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#33 - 2015-09-17 16:14:18 UTC
Aebe Amraen wrote:
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
Andre Vauban wrote:
How are you going to prevent a single kiting sniper from applying damage constantly to prolong the repair timer until you have to go to sleep? Ie warp a sniper corm in at range, shoot once, warp off. Repeat this with a single pilot until you have to log off. It's nearly impossible to stop and you have effective control of the grid, but you can never repair your structure since they are taking pot shots at it.


I think once its fully Repped your out of luck from how I read it. If it takes no damage in 30 seconds repairs kick in. It takes 15 total minutes to fully repair. So if your kiting ship is not beating its repair rate, as you warp in and out it will have of just repaired itself up. Hence why having Grid control and getting your enemies off is important as quick as possible.

Shoot it once during repair and it stops for 30 seconds.
30 seconds go by and no damage is received in that time repair cycle kicks back in.
Kitey ship shoots it again, warps off.. 30 second pause.. DPS doesnt do much of anything to it tho
30 seconds go by and that damage is repped as well as more until the ship lands to shoot it again and then warp off.
30 seconds go by, damage was still negligible so it finished its repair cycle after 15 minutes of self-repair.
The repair completed after the vulnerability cycle due to 30 second pauses, and it went back to an Invulnerable state.

Compared to if a fleet was on field shooting it which would keep the repair cycle from restarting and eventually it would get reinforced or chased away.

If reinforced , wash, rinse, repeat x2 more times for armor and Structure.

If chased away and it had time to repair.. wait until next window.


Andre has a legitimate concern here. A cormorant with a lot of bookmarks can easily apply damage once every 30 seconds, from >100km out, while being nearly impossible to catch. It doesn't matter that he has **** damage, as long as he can keep the repair timer prolonged (until the rest of his fleet arrives, for example, or just until he gets tired of trolling).


We will probably do a shorter timer (say 10 seconds) to resume counting down the repair timer as well as a small % damage threshold to trigger the pause. Balancing these will be required to prevent the hit and run tactics which we stated we want to prevent being effective.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#34 - 2015-09-17 16:14:49 UTC
Sbrodor wrote:
omg. we fall back to the past!

i really dont see the point of difference of the past where 30 super of (choose your name favorite ally) again blobbing at own pleasure player trying to build something with time and effort.



Except that the supers arent taking your SOV, They are only shooting citadels. All forms of ships should have some use. Not just rely on a magic Disney Mickey mouse paint wand to zap something until its painted your color.

Think carefully to when you guys had Imperium visit your home. Instead of iHubs they were using as a point, now instead they roll these Citadels which are supposed to replace Outposts. They take 40 or so Citadels out in around 3 days. Still due to blobbing mechanices, no supers needed, just Mickey Mouse paint wands and zapping until it was theirs or destroyed.

Which content would you rather have for ALL your pilots. Sit and watch one dude with entosis on a citadel quickly burn it in a few days with the rest doing nothing but watching Netflix or playing other games on another monitor. Wouldn't you rather have your pilots actually participating in the destruction of said item, letting them be involved in the process and feel useful? I know me personally I would rather be involved in the shooting process vs sitting boredly watching one ship get to do something. I trained my character to fly ships and fire guns for a reason Compared to just roll an alt, train it to infomorph IV and wave a wand with a 30ish day old character.

HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#35 - 2015-09-17 16:15:21 UTC  |  Edited by: HeXxploiT
My thoughts are every bit as convoluted as Eve sovereignty mechanics have become.
At least the appearance for those of us attempting to follow sov seems that way.

Remember that quote by William Shakespeare?

Quote:
"Sovereignty mechanics are an enigma, wrapped in a conundrum, tied to a riddle that baffles the mind of men"


My concern is that all this back & forth is going to frustrate players more than the changes themselves.

I do appreciate the amount of poise and tact devs have displayed in the face of the onslaught of negative feedback.
It has demonstrated an abundance of professionalism on your(devs) part.

Whatever happens I hope this works and things begin to settle down as pilots begin to understand the system.
Tobias Frank
#36 - 2015-09-17 16:19:37 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Tobias Frank wrote:
Looks promising!

Also, will we get docking scenes in the new citadels as we have now in stations/outposts when we are docked? Ship spinning is an important feature!


No docking scene. When you dock, the camera will be centered around the structure instead, so you can now play structure spinning.


Can we keep the spinning-counter at least? Cry
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#37 - 2015-09-17 16:22:44 UTC
Well, its going to be interesting, that's for sure.





Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Barubary Evans
Doomheim
#38 - 2015-09-17 16:25:39 UTC
Tobias Frank wrote:

Can we keep the spinning-counter at least? Cry

This is the most important question in the thread. We need our spin counter, CCP!
Gosti Kahanid
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2015-09-17 16:27:07 UTC
I'm on my mobile, so I will keep my question short:
Is it possible to mittigate the damage an enemy is causing during Repair phase by repairing the Station with a Logi or carrier? I don't mean to repair shields while in armor-phase, but lets say the enemy has my armour at 50%, can I repair back as long as armor didn't reach 0%?
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#40 - 2015-09-17 16:27:53 UTC
Quote:
Entosis links are not going to work on new structures

<3 Ytterbium