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Bind PLEX to the first account that buys it on the in-game market

Author
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2015-09-16 22:45:53 UTC
thebarry wrote:
[
The guys who have piles of them are the demand, they invest and hold because it's a hedge against inflation, and this is a feedback loop where the price rises as more and more people hoard them, which results in yet more hoarders. I am saying that this is unhealthy for the game since it artificially inflates the cost of game time(in ISK) which in turn makes things harder on the players who are driving content.



So people who PLEX their accounts should suffer because you don't like the idea of a layer driven market. Is that about right?

I PLEX two or three accounts, depending on what's going on. Right now I have one on the go because 1.25b is too much for the effort I'm willing to put in currently. Your idea would reduce the number of people selling PLEX, which would reduce the number available, which would increase the prices, which would be the end of PLEXing accounts through casual means. (PI funds mine, even with the high prices. I don't much want to have to carrier rat to fund it instead.)

I'd like you to explain why that's good for the game.
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2015-09-17 00:30:04 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
thebarry wrote:
We currently have an unfortunate feedback loop with players hoarding and manipulating the price of plex.


That is the very essence of EVE. It is not CCP's fault that we're increasing the prices on PLEX so dramatically.

Also just because PLEX is around the 990 million isk range, doesn't mean suscription numbers are declining.


My own impression of the numbers is that Plex prices are increasing while average online characters are decreasing. But one thing does not necessarily cause the other.

Plex Prices are 1.1+ billion at the point of writing this. But as long as it hurts others more than me, I could care less.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"

thebarry
7-2 Ronin
#23 - 2015-09-17 06:44:49 UTC  |  Edited by: thebarry
Frostys and Aerasia, I'm sure he still has them, why sell them?

Daichi I hope you're joking but just in case you're not, grinding up isk to plex an account is not a fun chore for content creators.

Bronson, read what Shalianna wrote.

Vic,
(A) A pile of plex represents accounts that could be subbed and content that could be created imo.
(B) I have profited from it, but I have also unsubbed several accounts because of price.
(C) If it was fun we wouldn't call it a grind, so no, this results in unsubbed accounts and less isk for blowing up spaceships.
(D) Not if you are the typical content creator who is spending a lot of time in EVE and very little time making rl money.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#24 - 2015-09-17 14:27:04 UTC
A pile of plex also represents a bunch of isk for someone. Isk they can use to create content. Why is your content more important than theirs? And why shouldn't they try to maximise their isk gains so they can maximise the content they create?

Grinding longer is content itself and content for the people around the grinders.

I know its not a fun chore. So why do you choose to do it? Because you value the time it takes to grind isk less than the money it costs to sub for a month.
Clearly plex prices arent high enough yet.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Jak'at
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#25 - 2015-09-17 14:51:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jak'at
Just because you can't figure out how everyone else is making money in EvE doesn't mean inflation should stop and that CCP should offer fixed rate currency on game time.

The price of Plex, over time, is going up. Period. (It's in CCP's best interest)
Try investing in some.
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2015-09-17 17:10:14 UTC
thebarry wrote:
I'm sure he still has them, why sell them?
So, anecdotally, you have a friend who made 0.00 ISK.

Understood.
Delarian Rox
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-09-17 17:30:56 UTC
It's a good idea but you know... You can't make this work just because of Aurum.

Yes, i think, PLEX hyperinflation killing this game by reducing the number of active accounts, and for some extent - active players. But you can't solve economy problems with boulder and stick.

I also think that CCP aware of this problem if it exists but they don't wanna solve it for some reason. We have more aurum items in this patch so they think that current price is ok.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#28 - 2015-09-17 19:59:13 UTC
PLEX is the EvE equivalent of gold. Get with the times.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

thebarry
7-2 Ronin
#29 - 2015-09-17 23:51:32 UTC
Jak'at wrote:
Just because you can't figure out how everyone else is making money in EvE doesn't mean inflation should stop and that CCP should offer fixed rate currency on game time.


I know how to make isk, and I didn't suggest a fixed exchange rate of isk for game time, or argue for an end to inflation even though it does cause a lot of problems.

Quote:

(It's in CCP's best interest)


I can see no evidence of that when looking at the decline in active players.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#30 - 2015-09-18 00:21:33 UTC
Those active players are not giving ccp money. They lose nothing if those players leave. They get more money if these players switch from plexing to paying for their sub.

Instead, the more isk plex is worth, the more ppl who are inclined to buy plex with rl money and cash in the isk. This means ccp get more money.

Tl:Dr
The higher the plex price the more money ccp make.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2015-09-18 00:34:51 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Those active players are not giving ccp money. They lose nothing if those players leave. They get more money if these players switch from plexing to paying for their sub.
Only if you assume that the vast majority of PLEX exist due to "click my link to sub" bonuses.

30 days of subscription is markedly cheaper than PLEX, so ideally for CCP they would have a few dedicated sub players who then routinely buy PLEX to keep others subbed.
thebarry
7-2 Ronin
#32 - 2015-09-18 00:39:03 UTC  |  Edited by: thebarry
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Those active players are not giving ccp money. They lose nothing if those players leave. They get more money if these players switch from plexing to paying for their sub.

Instead, the more isk plex is worth, the more ppl who are inclined to buy plex with rl money and cash in the isk. This means ccp get more money.

Tl:Dr
The higher the plex price the more money ccp make.


Since all plex are paid for with cash, ccp makes money whether the account is plexed or not. If the price of plex is so high that the university/underemployed nerds(who are almost always the ones driving content) unsubscribe their spare accounts or win eve, then this reduces content for the rest of us, and income for ccp.

Can we at least agree that if ccp does implement such a policy, that afterwards I should be referred to as theGRRRy?
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2015-09-18 05:58:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Amyclas Amatin
It's like there are less people playing this terrible game, and those who are left play it play for free. I know I wouldn't play if I wasn't playing at someone else's expense.

All the same, demand for plex is quite real. Arbitrary market rules would just hurt mah sandbox experience!

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"

Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2015-09-18 07:07:41 UTC
thebarry wrote:
If the price of plex is so high that the university/underemployed nerds(who are almost always the ones driving content) unsubscribe their spare accounts or win eve, then this reduces content for the rest of us, and income for ccp.

Maybe CCP should keep an eye out for a correlation between PLEX hoarding and sub numbers?
CCP Terminus wrote:
When prices do skyrocket for short periods of time, we monitor the subscription rate carefully to see if we need to intervene with a sale of some sort, or let the fluctuation smooth itself out.

Oh. They do.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#35 - 2015-09-18 11:19:42 UTC
@ aerasia
And they will as well as people who use plex for other services like dual-training. If the majority of plexing accounts switched to subscribing the price of plex would fall, which would mean players will switch back to plexing. Clearly the price of plex is not high enough yet.

@ theBarry
CCP dont just make money if the account is plexed or not. It makes money if the plexed account exists or not. And the higher the isk reward for plex the more inclined we all are to do it to save ourselves hours of game time grinding.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Aven Valkyr
Over Reaction
Ligma Grindset
#36 - 2015-09-18 11:30:07 UTC
If my 2 cents were worth anything, which they are not, but if they were this is what I would say on the subject.

The only people that the insane costs of plex are hurting are the new players, who can just barely afford the monthly subscription fee and want to continue playing the game by plexing. It can be very difficult for a new player to earn the insane amount of isk required to continue playing. So they subscribe for a month, reading all this awesome stuff online about how they can plex to keep their account running, realize their poorly fitted T1 cruiser can't cut it in making the 1.2 bil per month required to plex, and they quit playing the game literally because they cannot afford to keep a sub going.

HOWEVER. It HELPS new players in that if they CAN afford to sub the game, an extra $15 gets them 1.2 bil ISK to buy ships and all kinds of other things with. Although it's sad that plex has gotten uncontrollably expensive lately, it's a "coin" issue, where there are 2 sides to it. Is it hurting CCP directly? I highly doubt it. if anything, I see more and more plex out there and I hear more and more people talking about PLEX. I see many new players come to the game because they spent even $30 on top of their subscription which they are happy paying and became instant billionairs.

I think CCP is going to sit on this subject for a while and let it roll. I'm sure they are monitoring their PLEX purchases carefully. "IMO", plex is a non-issue.
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