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Missle Skill Change
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Lenjiva Ambramotte
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#1 - 2015-09-17 07:51:11 UTC
o7

Not sure if this has been sppamed to death or anything, did a quick search and couldn't find anything so i hope im not just repeating a billion other posts so here goes!

Currently on TQ missiles are a higher SP investment to unlock T2 launchers/ammo/specialization skill this is due to the requirement to train each individual skill to 5 as im sure your all aware.

With turrets you train small/med/lge to 5 then you train your spec skill to allow for use of T2 turrets/ammo and allows you to train the spec skill which is another dps increase. This difference in itself requires a greater SP investment for missiles to unlock the same amount. The variation with the skill also stretches to the multiplier on the skills themselves

Small turrets (x1)
Med turrets (x3)
Lge turrets (x5)

Rockets (x1)
Light missiles (x2)
Heavy assault missiles (x3)
Heavy missiles (x3)
Torpedoes (x4)
Cruise missiles (x5)

Solution. Merge missile skills to be like turret skills.

Rockets and lights will be classed under Small missiles with rocket and light missile being the specialization skills
Heavy and heavy assault being classed into medium missiles etc....

When merging, the new Small, Medium, Large skills will take the SP amount of the higher of the two skills, refunding the SP of the lower, no change will need to be made to the specialization skill.

This will bring missiles into line with other weapon systems, in the past few patches missiles themselves have received a bit of love so now its time to give the skills some love so we can use them effectively without having to pour close to double the time into them as normal turrets.

If that is done then maybe the possibility of support skill changes could be looked at as support skills like surgical strike, trajectory analysis etc effect 3 types of weapons systems but you have to train another set of support skills just for missiles yet again increasing the SP investment for this one weapons system, but thats not really the focus of this post just food for thought while on the topic of missile skills.

Anywho thanks for reading :) sorry if this is a repeated post.

Lenjiva o7

TL.DR. merge missile skills to bring them into line with turret skills SP investment wise
Yngvar ayShorn
Einheit X-6
#2 - 2015-09-17 08:27:17 UTC
No, because:

Missiles are not a single race weaponary. Turrets are. Remember Energy, Hybrid and Projectile-Turrets.
If you are good at Hybrids, you can't even use Energys or Projectiles. You have to skill them too, if you want to use them.

Missiles are skilled once for all races, so the bit more SP you have to skill is just fine.

Or you have to introduce Amarr-Missile-Skills, Caldari-Missile-Skills... and so on.
No, thanks. No need for more Skills to train.

+250.000 Skillpunkte für neue Accounts mit meinem Link!  -->> Klick mich <<-- -- Minmatar FactionWar --
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#3 - 2015-09-17 08:48:04 UTC
I like the idea and have proposed something like this in a skill overhaul thread I opened at like the start of August.

But, seeing something like this got me thinking (which is probably a bad thing)

What if SP gain wasn't toward a specific skill but a skill group - as you skilled into that group, you would unlock additional skills as well as levels of skills.
This would be a very massive change to skills and the way people train - yet as I ponder on it and think about it! It would allow the attribute system to remain as well as remaps. It would also not require CCP to figure out what mission runners spend then LP on.

We all know that new players/characters have to grind through a lot of "core skills" to be what is deemed worthy. There are so many skills for characters that skill can and is a nightmare.

Let's say for Example to max out all Armor skills a player would have a total of like 2.5 million SP between all the skills. Instead of having to queue different skills - the player would just apply all SP to the armor skill group and it would progressively increase the level of skills as well unlock new skills. This could also take care of the issue with people wanting to inject skills before they have the prerequisites at the proper level, as this would allow to them keep investing in the group and purchase the skills to (truly) unlock them as needed.

Instead of new players having a massive complex system of skill if that can be hard for them to understand, they can be easily guided toward skill categories and won't waste potential SP by not having skills in the queue.

This would put a lot of change work on CCP but I feel that this system could just flow once it was all settled.
There would be a need to rework some of the groups by dividing them up and what not.
(I will look at cleaning up this idea and propose updates to it once I have a real computer and keyboard.)

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#4 - 2015-09-17 09:10:37 UTC
Lenjiva Ambramotte wrote:
TL.DR. merge missile skills to bring them into line with turret skills SP investment wise

They are in line with the turret skills. You need to train 3 individual turret skills for the 3 individual turret types plus the support skills enhancing the entire category.
With missiles, you train 1 weapon type that can be used on ships of at least 3 races without having to train individual missile skills for them unlike with turrets plus the support skills for all kinds of missiles.

I do not see a problem.

Also, there is absolutely no logical base for combining support skill of Gunnery weapons and Missile weapons. Gunnery and Missiles are two very distinct weapon categories and the woes of players about skill training are no logical reason to combine them.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2015-09-17 10:51:30 UTC
Yngvar ayShorn wrote:
No, because:

Missiles are not a single race weaponary. Turrets are. Remember Energy, Hybrid and Projectile-Turrets.
If you are good at Hybrids, you can't even use Energys or Projectiles. You have to skill them too, if you want to use them.

Missiles are skilled once for all races, so the bit more SP you have to skill is just fine.

Or you have to introduce Amarr-Missile-Skills, Caldari-Missile-Skills... and so on.
No, thanks. No need for more Skills to train.

By this logic, we should split rails and blasters because several races use them. In fact, I'm not sure if there are more missile boats than hybrid boats in this game.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#6 - 2015-09-17 14:12:59 UTC
Do not care much either way on the OP idea but this I cannot leave alone, just to tempting.
Yngvar ayShorn wrote:
Missiles are skilled once for all races, so the bit more SP you have to skill is just fine.

OK this makes no sense.
All turret skills are trained once and those weapons can then be used on all ships that can fit turrets so what is your point here?
Once you have lasers trained you can use them on any ship that has turret slots.
Same for auto canon, artillery canon, blasters, rails etc.
Icarus fall
What Shall We Call It
#7 - 2015-09-17 14:22:11 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Do not care much either way on the OP idea but this I cannot leave alone, just to tempting.
Yngvar ayShorn wrote:
Missiles are skilled once for all races, so the bit more SP you have to skill is just fine.

OK this makes no sense.
All turret skills are trained once and those weapons can then be used on all ships that can fit turrets so what is your point here?
Once you have lasers trained you can use them on any ship that has turret slots.
Same for auto canon, artillery canon, blasters, rails etc.



its more that for lasers you wont find any ship bonuses outside amarr/pirate where amarr have missile bonused hulls also.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-09-17 14:28:41 UTC
Yngvar ayShorn wrote:
No, because:

Missiles are not a single race weaponary. Turrets are. Remember Energy, Hybrid and Projectile-Turrets.
If you are good at Hybrids, you can't even use Energys or Projectiles. You have to skill them too, if you want to use them.

Missiles are skilled once for all races, so the bit more SP you have to skill is just fine.

Or you have to introduce Amarr-Missile-Skills, Caldari-Missile-Skills... and so on.
No, thanks. No need for more Skills to train.


The gunnery support skill applies to every race. The difference is barely visible when you only train for one race but anyone going from one to another will have an easyer time going from laser to hybrid than laser to missile for example.
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#9 - 2015-09-18 00:31:59 UTC
Yngvar ayShorn wrote:
No, because:

Missiles are not a single race weaponary. Turrets are. Remember Energy, Hybrid and Projectile-Turrets.
If you are good at Hybrids, you can't even use Energys or Projectiles. You have to skill them too, if you want to use them.

Missiles are skilled once for all races, so the bit more SP you have to skill is just fine.

Or you have to introduce Amarr-Missile-Skills, Caldari-Missile-Skills... and so on.
No, thanks. No need for more Skills to train.

What about Gallente and Caldari both using Hybrids?
Zavand Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-09-18 01:12:34 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
Yngvar ayShorn wrote:
No, because:

Missiles are not a single race weaponary. Turrets are. Remember Energy, Hybrid and Projectile-Turrets.
If you are good at Hybrids, you can't even use Energys or Projectiles. You have to skill them too, if you want to use them.

Missiles are skilled once for all races, so the bit more SP you have to skill is just fine.

Or you have to introduce Amarr-Missile-Skills, Caldari-Missile-Skills... and so on.
No, thanks. No need for more Skills to train.

What about Gallente and Caldari both using Hybrids?


Should be obvious enough we need to introduce caldari and gallente hybrid turret skills. Then we need to divide energy turret skills to sansha, amarr, blood raider energy turret skills and so on cuz this will make the game so much more immersive cuz nothing is more immersive than more SP you need to train into when you are a newbie in eve.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#11 - 2015-09-18 02:04:05 UTC
So we all agree that things are in good shape just as they are. Cool..... moving on!
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#12 - 2015-09-18 02:35:34 UTC
I'd be ecstatic if they reworked the implant slots so we could use an Ascendancy Omega and +5 Zainou cruise missile damage implant.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.