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Current state of drone ships for low and mid level PvE?

Author
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#41 - 2015-08-08 23:20:48 UTC
Opinion on the Bellicose from a respected but now retired blogger: http://jestertrek.blogspot.ca/2012/12/fit-of-week-missile-pvp-bellicose.html.

The main advantage is that it leverages existing skills - allowing you to spend time training higher levels rather than new skills. In the long run it doesn't matter - you will eventually cross train for all 4 factions.

If you do fly the Bellicose, try to fit a target painter - it will make it a lot easier to kill frigates with medium weapons.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#42 - 2015-08-09 03:51:17 UTC
Vendraen wrote:
The first one was before power hour existed, before the Trammel/Felucca split, before everything. It was a pain in the ass but worth it! The others were after the split and once PH was a thing but that was STILL an endurance test getting Taming to GM.

Yeah I didn't train a tamer until just after the split. They put PH in especially to curve the constant macroing. Like I trained two mages (pvp scribe & a fisherman) and a warrior (hammer) before the split, and when hitting the mage shop there was always constant macroing going on in there (legal if attended). Less so after PH, which made certain skills very difficult to progress (though 8x8 still worked well in many cases).

Anyway, just thought I'd drop a good link to the rattlesnake http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Rattlesnake as something I mentioned and you'd probably find it a good choice for a long-term goal.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#43 - 2015-08-09 15:10:05 UTC
Pax Deltari wrote:
Silver Grab wrote:

to surpass the gila would be something like the ishtar which would require about 3 months of training to even fly it, and costs about the same as the gila.


Lol Ishtar surpasses the Gila. That's a good one mate. Cute indeed.

Ah but you miss the point. In many ways the Ishtar is a significantly better drones ship than the Gila.
The Gila bonuses medium drones only, while the Ishtar bonuses all sizes of drones to one degree or another.
The Gila cannot use sentry drones and in many cases those are superior to the mediums that the Gila can use, no wait while they travel to a target. Using the Ishtar I can and do kill targets before the drones from a Gila could even get to them.
The Gila has a very limited drones bay which further limits your choices in a mission, while the Ishtar has one of the largest drones bays in the game giving you many options that the Gila simply cannot offer.
And the list goes on.

There is nothing wrong with the Gila, it is a capable ship that serves people well and many enjoy flying it me included.
With regards to their use as mission ships one could make a strong case that either of these 2 excellent ships is the "best", when in reality and setting aside the personal preferences or dislikes they are for all practical purposes equal they just have different strengths and weaknesses.

Although I fly both my preference is for the Ishtar for larger drones bay which gives more flexibility, but primarily because of the sentry drones.
Vendraen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2015-08-09 17:18:37 UTC
Well the issue of "how to afford the Gila" is a non-issue now thanks to an amazingly generous player I won't name here. WTF @ "EVE's community sucks." Yeah, wrong. O_o

Thank you. :)
Arcos Vandymion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2015-08-12 07:47:49 UTC
Vendraen wrote:
O_o

Going to be a damn,damn long time before I can afford a Gila.

My mentioning of "low and mid level PvE" should clue you in that a quarter of a billion ISK (just for the hull!) might be a little out of my price range. :D

The difference between the dirt cheap again Myrmidon at 50m and the Gila at 270m is a freighterload of skillpoints.


The Myrm
  • is armortanked - aka only active
  • has a single damage bonus - it needs pretty good drone skills
  • can bring about three flights of drones (2 sentry sets or a sentry+meds+2lights)
  • is dirt cheap




The Gila
  • is shieldtanked - passive or active both work well due to resist bonus
  • has most of its damage inbuilt into the hull in the form of the MASSIVE drone damage bonus
  • can bring five flights of drones
  • has a missile damage type bonus indipendant of weapon size - use RLML
  • goes faster
  • aligns faster
  • locks faster
  • locks farther
  • doesn't look like a Rorschach test
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#46 - 2015-08-12 08:40:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Donnachadh wrote:

The Gila has a very limited drones bay which further limits your choices in a mission, while the Ishtar has one of the largest drones bays in the game giving you many options that the Gila simply cannot offer.

This is incorrect. The gila can carry a full flight of every race's drones AND a flight of lights (though I wouldn't recommend it, just take another set of hammers). This means the Gila has MORE choice in damage type than the ishtar. Not to mention that the ishtar requires FAR more skills to perform at the same, never mind better, level than that of the Gila. DPS, at all 5 is nearly identical (rapid lights vs Rails) and the Gila's medium drones can go as fast as 3 750 m/s (valks) without any modules or rigs and have better damage application (smaller sig weapons, better tracking). Gila is also faster and more flexible (utility high for example)

The Ishtar is an amazing ship, no doubt, but the Gila is very much its equal or even it's superior in some things.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#47 - 2015-08-13 14:57:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Anize Oramara wrote:
This is incorrect. The gila can carry a full flight of every race's drones AND a flight of lights (though I wouldn't recommend it, just take another set of hammers).

The Ishtar will see your 4 flights of medium drones and a few measly lights then raise it.
If I want I can carry 1 flight of every races medium drones as well and still have 175m3 of unused drones bay space and that equates to a flexibility that the Gila simply cannot match.

Or in a more normal mission load out I can carry two full flights of sentry drones, a full flight of mediums, a full flight of lights and still have room left for a few maint bots or whatever else I want to carry. Again this offers a flexibility in missions that you cannot and never will be able to match with the Gila.

Anize Oramara wrote:
This means the Gila has MORE choice in damage type than the ishtar. Not to mention that the ishtar requires FAR more skills to perform at the same, never mind better, level than that of the Gila. DPS, at all 5 is nearly identical (rapid lights vs Rails) and the Gila's medium drones can go as fast as 3 750 m/s (valks) without any modules or rigs and have better damage application (smaller sig weapons, better tracking). Gila is also faster and more flexible (utility high for example)


You have a valid point that the Gila's missiles offer more flexible damage types. But then the superior flexibility in drones load outs made possible by the larger drones bay virtually nullifies this advantage.

Missiles versus armor skills are about equal so that one is a non-object.
The Ishtar require Gal cruiser to 5 and HAC skills.
The Gila requires both Gal AND Caldari cruiser to 5.
So in the end and for new pilots the skills required to maximize either ships abilities are about equal.

The Gila does not bonus a drones speed, that is affected by skills, rigs, modules and implants so your supposed drones speed advantage is a complete non-issue since all of those things can be applied to the Ishtar as well.

Again the Gila does not bonus the drones tracking or speed capabilities so the Gila has no advantage. Any advantage you have or think you have are based solely on skills, rigs, modules and implants and all of those would affect the Ishtar as well.

Again you have a vaild point the Gila has a faster base speed 195 versus 185. Again the Ishtar's larger drones bay renders this advantage almost meaningless, while you are running off to a target I simply launch sentry drones and commence to kick ass.

The Ishtar has a utility high as well. At least I think that is what they would call it, last night when running some missions with a corp mate mine had 3 auto cannon and remote armor rep in the highs so perhaps this is not as much of an advantage for the Gila as you think it is.

The only real advantage the Gila has is in drones durability. At maxed skills and using the same modules and rigs the total hit points is essentially the same, the Gila concentrates those hit points into 2 drones while the Ishtar spreads them out over 5. Again the larger drones bay and the flexibility that offers renders even this advantage virtually worthless. As an example while your mediums are taking damage running to a target the Ishtar's sentries are already shooting at the targets and those sentries have more hit points than your mediums.

As I said in my last post neither is better, they have different strengths and weaknesses and it is up to the pilot to decide which is better for them. I fly both, I like both of them and I am glad I have both, but if I was forced to choose just one I would take the Ishtar simply because of the greater flexibility that large drones bay offers.
Vendraen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#48 - 2015-08-13 15:14:47 UTC
A great comparison between 2 very nice ships.

(Oddly enough, though I was gifted a Gila, I found it kind of boring to use; I didn't like it at all. So I sold it. :D )
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#49 - 2015-08-13 17:20:46 UTC
Vendraen wrote:
A great comparison between 2 very nice ships.

(Oddly enough, though I was gifted a Gila, I found it kind of boring to use; I didn't like it at all. So I sold it. :D )


I ran some level 1 missions in my Raven and found it boring but in your case that is not that far of. You basically shoot flies with a minigun.
Yes that works and you will kill the flies but a minigun, really?

Here's a hint, that monster of pirate ship that used to be terrible for a decade will be able to handle a lot more difficult situations.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Vendraen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2015-08-13 17:25:09 UTC
elitatwo wrote:

I ran some level 1 missions in my Raven and found it boring but in your case that is not that far of. You basically shoot flies with a minigun.
Yes that works and you will kill the flies but a minigun, really?

Here's a hint, that monster of pirate ship that used to be terrible for a decade will be able to handle a lot more difficult situations.


More like a 105mm howitzer vs. gnats, but your point is valid.

It's fine, I'm new, and I didn't pay for the ship, and now I have a **** ton of ISK sitting in wallet. Will I regret the sale? Probably, but I just didn't dig that Gila.
Lantyss
Silver Shield
Toxic University
#51 - 2015-09-16 18:13:58 UTC
So.... what is a good mission fit for that ship....oh, what's its name .... the Gila? Great thread, BTW

Thanks!
Lantyss
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2015-09-17 08:14:11 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Fine... Algos and Dragoon work fine for low end stuff, as do the Arbitrator and the Vexor.
Myrm or Prophecy for mid range stuff.
Gila, because... Gila.


The funny, sad thing is that a Worm can get significantly more drone DPS than either destroyer. 2 DDA's will give you ~220 DPS with hobs; I imagine you could set up a fit with a cheap deadspace shield booster and cap mods to run low level missions and combat sites easily.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#53 - 2015-09-17 09:10:22 UTC
The Gila gets pretty exciting when you do level 4s with it.

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I invented Tiericide

John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Holdings
#54 - 2015-09-17 11:31:15 UTC
Vendraen wrote:
O_o

Going to be a damn,damn long time before I can afford a Gila.

My mentioning of "low and mid level PvE" should clue you in that a quarter of a billion ISK (just for the hull!) might be a little out of my price range. :D


Buy a PLEX. Life doesn't have to be hard.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Holdings
#55 - 2015-09-17 11:37:02 UTC
Ahed Sten wrote:
Oh. I didn't see where you mentioned PVE. Disregard my statement about the Tristan, then.


Eh?

The Tristan is massively OP for Lvl 1s. 3 x DDA with 5 x Hob II = utter Lvl 1 carnage. Speed tank 4tehwin.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Forum Toon
Doomheim
#56 - 2015-09-17 21:38:01 UTC
you want to pve with drones you got 3 choices,

Gallente (mixed with hybrid turrets)
Amarr (mixed with... well mostly energy types of eWar so you can use whichever weapon you want)
Gurista (mixed with missiles).

I tried Rattlesnake with RHML in the past using single Gecko drone... it was evil...

Vexor for L2 \ Myrm for L3 and Potato for L4 is cheap man choice.

Amarr ship due to lack of weapon bonuses allows you to use missiles or projectile weapons instead if you prefer.. not my cup of tea.
thought the Geddon Navy issue with sentry drones is evil choice indeed.
Altair Taurus
#57 - 2015-09-17 21:59:06 UTC
Wasn't Ishtar nerfed recently?
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