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C5 to C4 static mass changes?
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Juan Directione
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-09-15 01:39:01 UTC
Just tried collapsing my Class 5 to Class 4 static connection and something about the mass is very off. The E175 static is supposed to be a 2bil kg mass hole and yet after taking it critical I had to put roughly 500 million kg of mass through it to close it instead of the usual 200 mil. I've been able to repeat this oddity twice now.

Has anyone else noticed anything odd with the mass on their statics?
GizzyBoy
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#2 - 2015-09-15 04:37:31 UTC
Juan Directione wrote:
Just tried collapsing my Class 5 to Class 4 static connection and something about the mass is very off. The E175 static is supposed to be a 2bil kg mass hole and yet after taking it critical I had to put roughly 500 million kg of mass through it to close it instead of the usual 200 mil. I've been able to repeat this oddity twice now.

Has anyone else noticed anything odd with the mass on their statics?


its 2 bill +- 10%ish
min 1.8, max is around 2.2
Viggo Konstanin
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-09-15 16:46:15 UTC
inb4 Jack Milton L2math
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-09-15 17:04:22 UTC
Math checks out.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

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Paul Vashar
CTHS
#5 - 2015-09-15 20:59:45 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Math checks out.

Well, that settles it.
MtnDo Me
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-09-16 00:57:58 UTC
10% less or more than the stated mass.

Also....

you know......

other people come into wormholes...... maybe you didn't see someone coming in with a battleship or something.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-09-16 13:32:37 UTC
People can't read it seems.

He says AFTER his 2bil hole is crit he's had to put 500m ish mass through to crit it


Which obviously makes no sense as the critical point is at 10% of maximum mass which will be between 180m and 220m

So either 1 of 2 things:

1. You're reading mass disrupted as verge of collapse, verge of collapse= crit /mass disrupted = half mass.
2. Someone took the higgs off the things you were trying to roll in and you didn't notice.

Art of Explosions
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-09-16 14:03:07 UTC
what, exactly, did you use to put this alleged 500mil mass on the alleged crit hole?
the range of mass a crit 2bil hole can take is 1kg to 439mil kg in a return trip, depending on how far past the crit point it is.
sure, that's not quite 500mil but it's a lot more than 200.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Juan Directione
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-09-16 21:11:33 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
what, exactly, did you use to put this alleged 500mil mass on the alleged crit hole?
the range of mass a crit 2bil hole can take is 1kg to 439mil kg in a return trip, depending on how far past the crit point it is.
sure, that's not quite 500mil but it's a lot more than 200.


The hole went crit when I took a higgs rigged Megathron into static. This means roughly 200mil left on the hole. I then jumped back into my home system with prop mod on (~300mil) and it did not collapse. After that I did another 2 sets with a hictor, so another 140mil give or take.

I thought critical means 10% of the total mass left. So even with a high mass variant of 2.2b kg the crit mass would only be at most 220mil right? Where are you getting the 439mil kg from?
Dtrade1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-09-17 08:34:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Dtrade1
I had a similar thing occur yesterday on a C4->C5 static

Pushed through 2 ravens prop mod off and 6 ravens prop mod on and it still wasn't critical. Subsequently used a HIC for 2 return trips (WDFG off) to try and push it to critical but the hole stubbornly remained at stage 2. Then got annoyed and pushed a 125m kg abaddon through that i didnt care if it got stuck on the wrong side and after another ~375m kg it went critical and on the final jump (back thankfully) it closed.

I know it wasn't that we didnt have a higgs fitted as there was also a C4->C4 static we were closing at the same time in the same hole and that closed perfectly.

I'm leaning towards the "IAMNOOB" solution and maybe we forgot to have the prop mod on somewhere but even then to have needed to push another 620m kg through to get it to close doesn't seem right, even if we didnt have the prop mod on at all for the initial 4 return trips. And while I can easily see that maybe we forgot a prop mod on here or there to have consistently forgotten seems highly unlikely especially as the other hole collapsed exactly as expected.
wazp1
The Tarzan Foundation
#11 - 2015-09-17 11:38:46 UTC
Sure it was the static of your c5? As a c4 with a c5 static is a 3 bil hole. Might be what u where rolling
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-09-17 14:14:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Juan Directione wrote:
I thought critical means 10% of the total mass left. So even with a high mass variant of 2.2b kg the crit mass would only be at most 220mil right? Where are you getting the 439mil kg from?

sure, but even if a hole has 1kg of mass left on it, you can still jump up to it's max jump limit through it.
thus, if a hole has just gone crit, you can jump 219mil through it and have it just barely not close, then jump the same mass back to close it, coming to a total of just shy of 440mil.
hell, you could even make the first jump without prop mod, then turn it on for the jump back (fairly common) and you actually end up with a total mass jumped after the hole was crit of 490mil kg, and that's getting awful close to your 500 number.
if you mess with the ship fit/what you're jumping, that absolute max mass you can jump through a 2 bil hole is just shy of 520mil kg (219mil out and 300mil, max jump mass of the hole, back)

This kind of thing is used fairly often for logistics. you haul though a hole untill it is deep crit and then have the last ship through be an orca, or freighter in high end holes, which effectively gains you the mass of the last ship in addition to the WH's natural mass.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Juan Directione
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-09-17 16:12:42 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Juan Directione wrote:
I thought critical means 10% of the total mass left. So even with a high mass variant of 2.2b kg the crit mass would only be at most 220mil right? Where are you getting the 439mil kg from?

sure, but even if a hole has 1kg of mass left on it, you can still jump up to it's max jump limit through it.
thus, if a hole has just gone crit, you can jump 219mil through it and have it just barely not close, then jump the same mass back to close it, coming to a total of just shy of 440mil.
hell, you could even make the first jump without prop mod, then turn it on for the jump back (fairly common) and you actually end up with a total mass jumped after the hole was crit of 490mil kg, and that's getting awful close to your 500 number.
if you mess with the ship fit/what you're jumping, that absolute max mass you can jump through a 2 bil hole is just shy of 520mil kg (219mil out and 300mil, max jump mass of the hole, back)

This kind of thing is used fairly often for logistics. you haul though a hole untill it is deep crit and then have the last ship through be an orca, or freighter in high end holes, which effectively gains you the mass of the last ship in addition to the WH's natural mass.

That makes perfect sense. However I did my return jump with prop mod on so it would have been well over 219m kg, and afterwards I had to do a further two hic sets. Even if I had messed up somehow and only done 219m kg on the first return, surely one hic set would have collapsed it.
Tiger Armani
End-Game
#14 - 2015-09-18 10:15:16 UTC
How long did you have your prop mod on, before u went through the hole?
If u just click prop mod on and immediately go through the hole, eve sometimes doesn't acknowledge u having the prop mod on.

Safe bet is to cycle it once before going through.
Aderoth Anstian
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-09-22 13:09:27 UTC
Tiger Armani wrote:
How long did you have your prop mod on, before u went through the hole?
If u just click prop mod on and immediately go through the hole, eve sometimes doesn't acknowledge u having the prop mod on.

Safe bet is to cycle it once before going through.



That's really not necessary. Just look for the cap drain from the prop and all is good.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#16 - 2015-09-28 01:04:14 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

He says AFTER his 2bil hole is crit he's had to put 500m ish mass through to crit it

Which obviously makes no sense as the critical point is at 10% of maximum mass which will be between 180m and 220m


Most holes are within the ~10% deviation. Holes being 20% and more off has happened rarely and will happen again. Think of this curve.