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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Making Wormholes easier to Probe.

Author
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#41 - 2015-09-16 08:37:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
No, this idea is awful.
Scanning is already WAY too easy, it's not CCP's fault if you don't know how to do it well.
Most importantly, this change would do nothing at all to address the issue of wspace being empty since it is completely unrelated.
If you don't like scanning, then wspace is not for you. That's the bottom line.

Comments like this:
Moo Moocow wrote:
The easiest way of introducing content/people into wh space would be to make scanning easier.

are just flat out wrong. Wspace activity has been at a steady decline for years now while scanning has only been made easier and easier in the same time period.

(Also, coming from a HK member makes it all the more ironic but that's neither here nor there i suppose...)

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RcTamiya
Magister Mortalis.
Undead Nation
#42 - 2015-09-16 08:39:17 UTC
i would liek to support this idea ... but a decent scanner is able to scann almost everything in 1-3 cycles .... if you make scanning easier ppl like that will skyrocket with their scanningspeed ....
Keeping that in mind it either needs a rework or you better don't buff it at all ...
Glasgow Dunlop
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#43 - 2015-09-16 08:42:22 UTC
As much as i like the idea, i can already hear the nullbears getting the pitchforks ready, as this could and would be gamed as much as what they did pre-null nerf, quicker for us/them. Would lead to some more traffic, but they would never use a chain with somebody in there?

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Jack Hayson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2015-09-16 08:45:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Hayson
Arcturus Gallow wrote:
Wait it doesnt work anymore to get a scan with only one probe at 32 a.u. and be able to discriminate which sig is a wormhole from the differente range of % you get?


If you are only looking for a certain wormhole (e.g. the static or K162s) that still works nicely. (use combats - they go to 64 a.u.)
The problem is that in some systems the signature strength of the possible wormhole types is so spread out that you end up having to scan everything anyway.
Giving wormholes a unique signature strenght is everything that is needed really, but the OPs idea is probably newbro friendlier.
Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2015-09-16 08:47:38 UTC
Ben Ishikela wrote:
What about reducing the Threshhold for getting that "wormhole" info at 25% to 10%(or 5%). Would that also work?
Thing is you then still have the "difficulty balance barrier" (if there was any) to get the complete lock. But its easier to destingiush between those 20Gassites and the two WHs.



IMO this would be just as, if not more acceptable than the proposed changes. As a former wormholer the problem was never finding a wormhole connection, it was distinguishing them from other sigs in the probe window. Changing the threshold at which a sig is tagged as a wormhole would be a pretty big quality of life improvement for w-space dwellers.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#46 - 2015-09-16 08:59:46 UTC
I do a lot of scanning and frankly do not think it is that hard. With that said, I see a lot of WH people coming out in support of this idea. Presumably they do more scanning than I do. Presumably, this is a huge quality of life improvement if you live in WH space. So, on the one hand, I am sympathetic to this idea.

On the other hand, I think there may be an element of "working as intended" here. Is it supposed to be easy to find new WH connections? Isn't that part of what drew people into WH space to begin with? That you could isolate yourself? That it was challenging to get there? That it was challenging to support yourself there? That you needed to be able to probe to find your way around?

I suppose after several years of "doing it the hard way," it is only natural for WH veterans to want things to be easier.

Perhaps what WH space really needs is more [new] challenges, not making things easier.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Archtype Black
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2015-09-16 09:19:27 UTC
Would be happy seeing this. Makes it easier for new people trying out scanning to see what a sig is, Makes things faster for us to scan down chains to find high-secs or nulls, as if im scanning a chain i just want to know what the sig is and if i can easily 1 hit everything to find out what it is then continue on just WH's this is fine by me
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#48 - 2015-09-16 10:15:51 UTC
This thread is full of "think of the newbies" moonshine. The whole thing is a stellar example of Malcanis's Rule. This will not benefit newbies. It will help larger, older, established groups find people to crush more easily.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Alyxportur
From Our Cold Dead Hands
#49 - 2015-09-16 10:26:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyxportur
Aren't you just wanting this change to run roaming fleets through wormholes faster?

Wormholers train the necessary skills to live in their space, and I don't recall ever hearing or seeing any wormhole resident (past or present) complain that scanning was too hard.
Humang
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#50 - 2015-09-16 10:27:11 UTC
I agree that making WHs easier to scan down isn't going to increase the amount of traffic in w-space, encouraging new players it might but unless there is something new in w-space for the more experienced then this wont do anything.

However in saying that, would absolutely love being able to more easily identify WH's from other signatures in system. Maybe not just make them easier to scan, but perhaps tell us if a sig is a WH at 10% instead of the standard 25%, or perhaps make them return a higher percentage early on, but harder to pinpoint to 100%.

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Montgomery Black
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2015-09-16 10:54:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Montgomery Black
GizzyBoy wrote:
Montgomery Black wrote:
Endorsed.

To many empty WH systems currently. A way to scan down WH chains more quickly to find content would be awesome.



Easier scanning will not populate wh's



No but it will make it quicker to scan that unpopulated wormhole and the next one til you find a active wormhole that has ships in it to kill. .

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Winthorp
#52 - 2015-09-16 11:01:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Winthorp
Montgomery Black wrote:
GizzyBoy wrote:
Montgomery Black wrote:
Endorsed.

To many empty WH systems currently. A way to scan down WH chains more quickly to find content would be awesome.



Easier scanning will not populate wh's



No but it will make it quicker to scan that unpopulated wormhole and the next one til you find find a active wormhole that has ships in it to kill. .


Exactly this.

Do you ever wonder how much time you waste or potential targets you never see or even enter their home because you just spent 40mins in a massive chain finding and ignoring PVE sigs?

Are we lazy for asking this? Probably 5% but the other 95% sick of just wasting our ******* time night after night on unnecessary ****.
Solcan Cadelanne
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2015-09-16 11:13:28 UTC
+1 good well thought out idea which will definately be a QOL improvement
Verse Askold
Bedtime Stories
#54 - 2015-09-16 11:19:45 UTC
i do scan quite a lot and sometimes it gets frustrating when you are 5 jumps down the chain and opened 10 WH´s on the way but havent found anything but emtpy/abandoned/ systems or systems where the inhabitants are currently not logged on(or are cloaked and watching your with knifes between their teeth ) but i dont think scanning should be made easier.

if you have proper scanning skills and the right ship, scanning is not an issue
WASPY69
Xerum.
#55 - 2015-09-16 11:55:48 UTC
I've asked several old friends in EVE why they're not joining a wormhole corp since it's the best content in EVE, and the majority of them said it's because they "hate scanning". So +1 from me Muha.

I also disagree with the people that claim probing is already too easy and that changes like this would only benefit vets. It's simply (as mentioned) a quality of life improvement when scanning down wormhole chains. Nobody likes jumping into a shattered and seeing 40 signatures knowing 30 of them will be gas sites etc..
And it would also benefit people NOT looking for wormholes to quickly identify them and ignore them.

So in general this change means less time probing, more time engaging in your content of choice. What's not to like?

This signature intentionally left blank

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#56 - 2015-09-16 13:22:14 UTC
I don't care either way on the OP so just some observations.

Do you really think that scanning the entrances is even part of the things that keeps players out of WH?
In my experience the scanning portion is more of a hassle to the vet WH dwellers than it is to the newer players looking to move into WH life.

Living / playing in a WH is a game play style just like low and nul. And just like low and nul that game play style does not appeal to very many people, to change that you will have to change the game play style in significant ways that you WH players will not like.
So the real question becomes are you willing to support the changes that will really make a difference to the amount of players that venture into WH?
Jak'at
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#57 - 2015-09-16 13:40:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jak'at
Donnachadh wrote:

Living / playing in a WH is a game play style just like low and nul. And just like low and nul that game play style does not appeal to very many people, to change that you will have to change the game play style in significant ways that you WH players will not like.


Spoken like a true Highsec prince. Why are you here again?

Posting in this thread because I didn't realize people still probe without Virtue sets.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#58 - 2015-09-16 13:54:05 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
This thread is full of "think of the newbies" moonshine. The whole thing is a stellar example of Malcanis's Rule. This will not benefit newbies. It will help larger, older, established groups find people to crush more easily.

QFT

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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#59 - 2015-09-16 14:00:39 UTC
OK, time to introduce Sabriz's Rule, a variant on Malcanis's Rule.

"Any time someone argues for a change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".

That said - despite being fully aware that this is a game balance change - I tentatively support it, subject to minor changes:

- Rookie systems and systems within 1 jump of one should NOT be affected
- Null to J space holes that can fit capital ships remain time-consuming to probe.
- K to K space holes remain time-consuming to probe.

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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#60 - 2015-09-16 14:40:39 UTC
Jak'at wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:

Living / playing in a WH is a game play style just like low and nul. And just like low and nul that game play style does not appeal to very many people, to change that you will have to change the game play style in significant ways that you WH players will not like.


Spoken like a true Highsec prince. Why are you here again?

Posting in this thread because I didn't realize people still probe without Virtue sets.

What difference does it make what area of the game I choose to play in? We all have opinions and we are all free to post them so take you elitist crap attitude and crawl back into your hole.

With how stupid easy it is to scan now the Virtue sets are worthless oust side of some very niche areas of scanning . In fact the ONLY thing they really do for an average scanning character is reduce the time needed to achieve a signal you can warp to. And the OP idea will make the virtue sets even more worthless since the WH will be even more stupid easy to scan then they already are.

Even if I am a high sec dweller that means I am significantly more attuned to what high sec players want and more importantly do not want from their game play and that would make me highly qualified to comment in any topic about how to get more players out of high sec and into WH. But in reality just see the first segment above about we all have opinions.

Looking at the idea of getting more layers into WH where is your largest pool of possible players?
Low?
Nul?
No your largest pool of possible players is those "high sec princes" you seem to have such a distaste for. And to be honest that attitude is just another of the problems you will have to overcome to attract more players into WH.

But the simple fact remains, those who enjoy the gaming style of low, nul or WH are for the most part already playing the game there. To attract more players into your area of space whether it is lolw, nul or WH then you have to change the game play style in those areas so it is attractive to a wider range of players. I told you WH players in my first post you would not like it, thank you for proving my point.