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The end of Hybrid buff
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#361 - 2012-01-04 02:45:37 UTC
Kingwood wrote:

What the hell. Blasters benefit as much (if not more) from tracking enhancers as Projectiles. They're not sidelined, buff them even more and they're going to be the next FOTM. The only issue is with armor vs. shield tanking - shield tanked Gallente ships are really really good, while armor tanked ones fall flat because of lol-brawl range (Edit: and that goes for projectiles too)

Except for the Hype because it's a damn fun boat.


This is almost exactly what I'm seeing - I'd even go so far as to say that its one of the best balancing jobs I've ever seen. The fact that he was able to balance it to the point that people who play the game are happy but forum warriors aren't able to build a FOTM case for it ... well it just speaks highly of Tallest's balancing abilities. Almost well enough that I'm content to see with what he comes out with for Barrage/Scorch/Null and individual ship tweaks. :)

Also: I'd personally add the Talos* and Harpy as just fantastically fun ships.

* I bought it, and the numbers look good for it. It should be much better than the Tornado for the kinds of fights I see.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#362 - 2012-01-04 02:47:29 UTC
ElCholo wrote:
Confirming that Gallente ships are terrible.


confirming that youre still a goddamn troll
ElCholo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#363 - 2012-01-04 02:52:06 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Confirming the gang ElChocolo et al. are running with is pretty good. These days, you can stuff a 1600 AND neutrons on a Deimos and it cooks at 1500m/s at least. Its every Deimos pilot's dream come true.

You have uber webs on the Ashimmu, with neuting. So you've got tackle and cap warfare sorted. A couple of logis for tanking because, luls, they will primary the Deimos so their pants don't fill up first and jam their F1 keys - i mean, tanking 2 Deimos's isn't easy. Stabber fleet for bait/tackle and sig tanking.

That's a pretty nice gang. You're all jelly, forum alts, because you haven't figured out how to run decent gangs.


Correct on all but one item. :) The Stabber wasn't there as bait, it was there because poor Ran can't use blasters yet. :( He's training them though. You would be amazed at how fast Deimos can cook these days. We didn't need to bait really, we were just running head long into any gang / camp we could find. For the most part, it worked out great. We will be taking it out on a regular basis, though we are trying to replace the Ashimuu with Vigilant for the added DPS, though we may keep one Ashumu for the cap warfare which is always nice to be able to shut off hardeners with.
ElCholo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#364 - 2012-01-04 02:54:01 UTC  |  Edited by: ElCholo
Hungry Eyes wrote:
ElCholo wrote:
Confirming that Gallente ships are terrible.


confirming that youre still a goddamn troll


I'm sorry, but you are completely incorrect. I'm actually trying to enlighten people. I've even gotten a group of friends together to start flying predominantly Gallente ships to show people just how terrible they aren't. Now please, be constructive, if possible. :)

Edit: Poor Engrish.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#365 - 2012-01-04 02:57:19 UTC
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#366 - 2012-01-04 08:14:32 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Depends on what you are doing with it.

Its NOT a fleet hull, it can't be with that slot layout on reliance on blasters. Its a MEAN somebitch when you put it in a small gang environment. Something that the Baddon and Mael suck at.


It's a big fat slowboat BS without 90% webs trying to hit small stuff with large guns. What role does it have in "small gang" other than station games? BS as a class is lol in small gang those days. It's crap compared to a real small gang boat in anything.



Its got 5 mids with a shield tank and a scram its as fast as a brutix, if you can't figure that out I can't help you.


I hate to use profanity, but you, sir, are a moron.Lol

With 115 m/s base speed and 900 m/s mwd, before plates and trimark, plus major agility problems, Hyperion is nowhere close to the speed of HACs and BCs in a small gang.

There is one BS that can keep up with the BC/HACs in a small gang, it's called a nano phon, look it up.Roll

And lulz @ Brutix.




You sir can't read....I said SHIELD tank no plates no trimarks.

Read first, then make invalid comparisons.
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#367 - 2012-01-04 10:13:56 UTC
ElCholo wrote:

You really don't have a clue, do you. :( The point is that we are roaming, not station/gate camping. Roaming is what a large portion of Eve does. It really saddens me that people just don't get the big picture.


http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=42891&view=ships_weapons&m=01&y=2012

I beg to differ. Check my history and you'll see that I use gallente ships most months, but to do so I have to go looking for fights pretty much on my own or in very small groups. All the other kills generally come from fleets where there is no room for gallente ships, either rail or blaster fitted. I repeat, you are arguing that a significant portion of the playerbase are expected to play with a minority and niche weapon system. This is neither balanced nor sensible, nor are you in your opinions.
Todd Jaeger
Mayhem and Destruction
#368 - 2012-01-04 12:11:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Todd Jaeger
Hungry Eyes wrote:
ElCholo wrote:
Confirming that Gallente ships are terrible.


confirming that youre still a goddamn troll


gallente race has some of the best solo pvp ships ex : from low to high : incursus,taranis,vexor,thorax,brutix,myrmidon,dominix,megathron,hyperion,deimos,ishtar,vindicator

the only problem with most gallente ships and weapon system is that it has no real purpose in large scale fleets (100->500 members) why?mentioned above.with the new buff gallente is more overpowered than ever.

now lets take a look at heavy assault missiles,medium beam lasers,lasers powergrid and cpu req. something for ccp to look over and fix


sacrilege is a total disaster ship compared to the rest tbh,and so on
rampro
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#369 - 2012-01-04 15:53:53 UTC  |  Edited by: rampro
Tak McMonagle wrote:
rampro wrote:
flying a talos without a web is suicide , however I like null it hits well.


http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Hera+Darkthorn

Just browse through it a little. You'll notice the talos is used quite a bit, and it never has a web.

I don't understand why people always talk so much thoerycraft. I understand using it to theorize about a battle, so that you can make the most educated guess on how to win, but some of you seem to think the more you argue about what you believe, the more people are going to listen. Show us something that states what you're trying to say. Nobody is going to take the things you say seriously otherwise.



http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14869204

it hits like a mega , with no drones ,no nuet and sheild tanked has no ewar apart from a point.

you could kill a sheild tanked one with a rifter.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#370 - 2012-01-04 18:10:59 UTC
rampro wrote:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14869204

it hits like a mega , with no drones ,no nuet and sheild tanked has no ewar apart from a point.

you could kill a sheild tanked one with a rifter.


I have a shield tanked Talos in Amamake. I'll be online tonight and you can come try your luck. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Tak McMonagle
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#371 - 2012-01-04 19:09:45 UTC
rampro wrote:
Tak McMonagle wrote:
rampro wrote:
flying a talos without a web is suicide , however I like null it hits well.


http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Hera+Darkthorn

Just browse through it a little. You'll notice the talos is used quite a bit, and it never has a web.

I don't understand why people always talk so much thoerycraft. I understand using it to theorize about a battle, so that you can make the most educated guess on how to win, but some of you seem to think the more you argue about what you believe, the more people are going to listen. Show us something that states what you're trying to say. Nobody is going to take the things you say seriously otherwise.



http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14869204

it hits like a mega , with no drones ,no nuet and sheild tanked has no ewar apart from a point.

you could kill a sheild tanked one with a rifter.


Killing a talos with a rifter isn't a big deal, as they designed all of the tier3 BC's to be weak to lower class ships(like that kill from the vexor, it probably got under his guns). That speaks nothing of the talos' ability to get kills solo.
ElCholo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#372 - 2012-01-04 19:25:09 UTC
Nikuno wrote:


I beg to differ. Check my history and you'll see that I use gallente ships most months, but to do so I have to go looking for fights pretty much on my own or in very small groups. All the other kills generally come from fleets where there is no room for gallente ships, either rail or blaster fitted. I repeat, you are arguing that a significant portion of the playerbase are expected to play with a minority and niche weapon system. This is neither balanced nor sensible, nor are you in your opinions.


My friends and I are now flying Gallente in mid sized fleets. People may be used to Gallente only being good for solo or very small fleets, but this is now due to narrow minded views and the inability to see that things have changed. They are now much more viable.

Your argument that a significant portion of the player base are expect to play with a minority weapon is an oxymoron. If it is a significant portion using them then obviously it is a significantly used weapon. They are also not nearly as niche as they used to be. This, of course, falls under that area where people must stop obeying the all mighty FOTM crowd and come up with viable fleet options, which we have. My opinion is sensible and balanced, yours, however, is lumped in with the likes of every other troll on these forums. I hope you enjoy the company. :)

By the way, we are going out roaming again today, it will be fun proving more and more people wrong. We even have a RPer in our ranks who is a member of Veto. He is writing up some fabulous stories about it. I will see if I can get him to share it here with the non-believers.
rampro
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#373 - 2012-01-04 19:42:44 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
rampro wrote:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14869204

it hits like a mega , with no drones ,no nuet and sheild tanked has no ewar apart from a point.

you could kill a sheild tanked one with a rifter.


I have a shield tanked Talos in Amamake. I'll be online tonight and you can come try your luck. :)

-Liang


why not it will be a laugh , standard sheild fit talos and no funny buisness )

im on my way lol
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#374 - 2012-01-04 19:45:33 UTC
I play kinda late so I won't be online in another 8-10 hours. Its not even noon here in California :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
rampro
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#375 - 2012-01-04 19:47:32 UTC  |  Edited by: rampro
ahh ok

I just jump cloned for nowt / sigh
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#376 - 2012-01-04 20:43:03 UTC
Damn, sorry man. Maybe sometime in the future... and really the challenge was just issued so I could get more traffic through Amamake. :P You could probably hit up anyone in Heretics for your PVP needs... I'm sure if I'm not available some of my corpmates will attend to your PVP needs. ;-)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Fade Azura
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#377 - 2012-01-05 00:07:47 UTC
i get back from my holiday vacation and damn this thread is still going? and liang is challenging more people ... lol .. well i guess the forums wouldnt be fun if she didnt =) anyways tossing in my piece as usual and dont care what anybody thinks!(dont do it sweetness!)

Gallente ships are only good for station games and gate camps or the occasional warp on top of the guy your buddy has got tackled already. blasters cant work in a fleet of any size bigger then a very small gang. the limited range of blasters(especially medium blasters) does not allow for proper dmg application over a larger number of ships.

i would REALLY like to see a tight ball of 20-30 blaster ships floating from primary to secondary to tertiary in a nice 10-20km ball of blaster ownage but this just simply is never going to happen as the delay of getting into blaster range is too big especially with a fleet of blaster ships ... god forbid the enemies should spread out and take away all your applied fleet dps. and is why you wont see blasters used to any extent in a large engagement (its just dumb).

railguns are only good for pos bashes ... which they are decent at ... but are completely overshadowed by the alpha that artillery fleets can dish out. Rails have very little alpha and give people time to warp out and logis to get away ect ect ... arties and lasers for the most part do not.

right now everyone has a small piece of the fleet pie(mainly minmatar) in the Drake,Tengu,Rokh for caldari. Abaddon,Zealot,Legion for amarr. and the dozen or so minmatar ships. every race can field some decent fleet ships except gallente.

not only do gallente not have any good fleet PvP ships but they do not field much for PvE either which not alot of people have mentioned. sleeper sites and incursions both do not have much if any room for gallente ships for the same reasons as pvp fleets dont. Kronos sucks at missions and although the domi is pretty good its barely equal or worse then anything else another race can use for missioning

so basically gallente are the worst at Fleet oriented PVP and PVE overall .... its the sad truth ... we got a few nice ships here and there(love my Vexor,Myrm and Domi) but nothing at all that stands out in any type of large group enviroment. in fact gallente ships are usually shunned and frowned upon in these enviroments for the obvious reasons.

ALL WE WANT IS A FEW FLEET SHIPS!!!! .... IS THAT SO MUCH TO ASK?


THROW US A FRIGGIN BONE!
Fade Azura
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#378 - 2012-01-05 00:42:17 UTC
rampro wrote:
ahh ok

I just jump cloned for nowt / sigh



hey man that was a very nice kill with that vexor =) we actually killed that same guy about an hour before your talos kill and i saw your killmail on him when i was checking out the killmails for the night and remembered that specific killmail as i found it showed some skill and caught my attention(beating a bigger and better ship against the odds) i am guessing you just got under his guns and orbited him at like 500 so his guns couldnt track you? and the rest is history i guess. anyhow good to see a vexor being piloted skillfully as it is not a common sight these days.

i did some basic intel on you after i seen that killmail(sorry it piqued my interest) seen that you lost a very shiny cynabal(on purpose)in early december recently as a farewell and you were gunna quit or something? I hope you stay on man and continue to produce killmail gems like that talos. would be a shame to see you leave.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#379 - 2012-01-05 00:43:47 UTC
Fade Azura wrote:

ALL WE WANT IS A FEW FLEET SHIPS!!!! .... IS THAT SO MUCH TO ASK?
yes
go train minmatar
Fade Azura
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#380 - 2012-01-05 02:02:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Fade Azura
Kingwood wrote:
Nikuno wrote:

And that's where you begin to miss the point. These ships are already agreed as being good at station/gate camping and if they can be dropped at zero in a relatively small engagement. But that's less than 5% of eve. For 25% of the player base who are Gallente, and for however many of the Caldari pilots that have discovered they have turret ships too. Why should the weapon systems of choice for such a significant part of the players be sidelined?


What the hell. Blasters benefit as much (if not more) from tracking enhancers as Projectiles. They're not sidelined, buff them even more and they're going to be the next FOTM. The only issue is with armor vs. shield tanking - shield tanked Gallente ships are really really good, while armor tanked ones fall flat because of lol-brawl range (Edit: and that goes for projectiles too)

Except for the Hype because it's a damn fun boat.


NOT REALLY... its a well known fact that TE's benefit projectiles more then anything else .... lets do a comparison to see of this is true.

i might add that this has been done several times already but i am doing it again and checking my calculator twice and using equal samples to make sure it is an accurate representation.



Hurricane 425mm Autocannon II with EMP + 1 TE = 13.3% optimal increase / 33.3% Falloff increase. TV= 46.6%

Myrmidon Hvy Neutron Blaster II with AM + 1 TE = 11.5% optimal increase / 28.6% Falloff increase. TV= 40.1%

Harbinger Heavy Pulse Laser II with Multi + 1 TE = 14.6% optimal increase / 23.1% Falloff increase. TV= 37.7%

TV= True Value of overall ranges percentage increase


All skills at level 5 using same gun type and ammo type for the respective race's ships with no optimal or falloff bonuses on the ships and same range penalty on all 3 ammo so this list is a perfect comparison.

as you can see the increase is purely based on the Turrets original Optimal and falloff numbers.

the turrets with the higher total original optimal+falloff numbers recieve a greater benefit inherently. this is multiplicative as you add more tracking enhancers but the increase remains these static percentages that i have listed here with all samples being equal .... if we add the optimal+falloff percentages we will see the true value comparison of overall added benefit per turret system per tracking enhancer. and also the overall weakness of other short range turrets in overall range compared to Autocannons.

in conclusion ....

425mm AC II with +1 TE is recieving 23.6% more effect then a heavy pulse II with +1 TE and a 13.7% more effect then the heavy neutron blaster II +1 TE. this is quite a significant advantage. and is well known to people that understand the numbers and gives minmatar ships a much greater skirmish ability coupled with their speed = OP

the 425mm AC II is the superior weapon system in terms of range and in terms of increase of range due to tracking enhancers in comparison to its racial counterparts.