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The Moment you realize you're the bad guy

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Sarah xCalibre
Pod Liberation Authority
#141 - 2015-09-15 13:34:49 UTC
Find it funny how so many people outside Camel and Hydra know what was going on, exactly what was said and how it was done but in all honest truth you know jack ****, you can guess but that doesnt make it true. Just cause someone post a snippet of a log (that can be fake) doesnt make anything true, how about we let ccp judge this at their best, hearsayin isnt proof in any case.
However if it is true ccp it should be dealt with accordingly, everyone knew the rules when entering.

Now lets take our sticky fingers out of this messs and let ccp do their job since its not ours but theirs to do. We got a year almost to discuss improvements for next AT and it should/need to be discussed. If this is true you forget about the 90% of the pilots DHB think was legit as well stop diminishing their hard work in this.

I really like the CSM person for the AT idea but I think its hard for a single person to be totally objective if not near impossible.

" I was spying on nulli this year, watching their undock ect (no hard feelings lawl), and they are a perfect example of how a good team does it. They saw hydra's setups, and instead of spending thousands of hours making their own meta chain, they skipped a lot of steps, borrowed all of hydra's teams, and flew the hell out of them to improve them as much as possible."

Oh oh, so Nulli and other corps are allowed to copy Warlord setups but Camel isnt as sparring partners? Think that statement is really weird. Have any other teams that practiced against eachother been looked into about this? Hardly think so, but since its the winning team they arent allowed to, I see. Or is Nulli in the collusion as well now?! Everything you say and do here is just so PL could have a better chance next year and thats about it, you are so undermining everything, well played.
  • Sarah xCalibre
Jamir Von Lietuva
Nameless Minions
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#142 - 2015-09-15 13:53:52 UTC
Mr Rive wrote:
Citricioni wrote:
Quote:
For example, if two teams that are facing each other agree together to bring setups that contain certain ships and/or do not contain other ships this will be considered a violation of the AT rules.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4683141#post4683141

Still see no problem in sharing setups pre match. If you train together, you share setups automatically, where is the problem? oO


The problem becomes when these teams consistently bring the same setups to every match like hydra did. We saw virtually nothing from either team except TFI variations until almost the finals, or when they faced us. The reason this is so important is smaller teams tend to not have as strong a theorycrafting base, or the pilots available to run thousands of hours of tests like ourselves or hydra do. This means the smaller teams end up monitoring the bigger team's meta chain, to see what setups are likely to be strong.

This is huge for the smaller teams, as copying setups is a key part of getting to the later stages of the tournament for them. It's a shortcut, it means they dont have to spend thousands of hours testing new ideas, new comps, ect. I was spying on nulli this year, watching their undock ect (no hard feelings lawl), and they are a perfect example of how a good team does it. They saw hydra's setups, and instead of spending thousands of hours making their own meta chain, they skipped a lot of steps, borrowed all of hydra's teams, and flew the hell out of them to improve them as much as possible.

This year, by reducing the number of setups they revealed, not only did hydra stop every single team from doing this, and massively reduced their chances of beating them, but they also did it with two teams, doubling their chances of getting at least one to the finals. What we ended up with was effectively the same team, except flying twice in the finals. We had to face one of them, beat them, kill their flagship, and then in a very short time period, had to face them AGAIN, have to beat them again, and kill their flagship again. Our entire team was exchausted, stressed, and put at a massive disadvantage. We had to play 6 matches against them, while they only had to play 3, as new pilots and all new ships were drafted in after the first three matches.

This is a problem in itself, but the real kicker is the fact they deliberately communicated to reduce the amount of setups shown, they deliberately communicated which bans to pick, and set out the strategy between the two teams to get them into the finals. Everything was shared, everything they did was intentional (i wouldnt be surprised if dropping one into the losers bracket was planned too). This to me, is collusion. However, not as CCP defines it. I feel this is as bad however, as sharing ships, fixing the finals (it didnt matter at that point anyway other than it saved them a bit of isk having to field more uniques), and generally doing so, so blazenly that everyone knew but could do nothing about it.

What we need to see is the proof that they fixed the final matches, and shared the winnings. Everything else is technically irellevant for the 2015 tournament. however, the collusion which is technically collusion but not really because fozzie doesnt understand how important it is, is the thing that really need to change.


been a part of Nulli team this year, we haven't "seen" hydra setups, pretty sure anyone that has half a brain came up with TFIs on their own, main thing why we flew TFIs for most of the matches is just because that is how "The HUNs" roll, they like taking least vulnerable thing and fly/craft the **** out of it (see Triple Vargurs for a good example). We had other setups, but phoons were the safest bet.

this whole drama is great btw i'm enjoying my popcorn so far
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#143 - 2015-09-15 13:59:56 UTC
Mr Rive wrote:
Querns wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
Querns wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:

Yeah it is, but then some of us care about the tournament too, and its not worth the frustration seeing this bullshit play out during the tournament, for the chance for a bit of hydra evasion trolling afterwards.

I agree -- the people involved should be exempt from the rules because of who they are.


Hold the phone. No one is saying they should be exempt. You know the game they were playing almost as well as I do, youre obviously not stupid, throwing this in my face isnt going to get a rise from me.

Again, they deserve to be punished, but throwing the book at them will do nothing but invonvenience them. Banning them just means they have to train a few alts for a year. My suggestion of splitting the prizes up more evenly means we aren't getting an advantage, and they lose some of theirs. It also pulls more teams in to the AT ship pool 'family'.

Of course everyone is pissed off about this. Understandably. I and others have been sure about it for at least a year. Maybe we're coming at this from a more clear headed angle?

I think you're underestimating the ability for CCP to enforce a ban. While it wouldn't be perfect, blacklisting all their accounts, their machine IDs, and the /24 of their IP would probably work fairly well. To subvert that, they'd have to start completely clean, new accounts, buy some or all of a new computer, and, depending on where they live, move.


thats not been done in the past though. If they did it would work. I still dont think a lot of them would care, most of their best pilots have more or less burned out now anyway.

Still, this doesnt actually fix anything. It doesnt change the fact that someone could still communicate with a practise partner, share all setups, and get to the finals. this is the real problem.


Would people be willing to risk losing their account and assets over it once a precedent is set that cheating in the AT will get you banned? If you set an example, you might actually make some people think twice before they work on such scheme.
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#144 - 2015-09-15 14:00:18 UTC
Citricioni wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
The problem becomes when these teams consistently bring the same setups to every match like hydra did. We saw virtually nothing from either team except TFI variations until almost the finals, or when they faced us. The reason this is so important is smaller teams tend to not have as strong a theorycrafting base, or the pilots available to run thousands of hours of tests like ourselves or hydra do. This means the smaller teams end up monitoring the bigger team's meta chain, to see what setups are likely to be strong.

This is huge for the smaller teams, as copying setups is a key part of getting to the later stages of the tournament for them. It's a shortcut, it means they dont have to spend thousands of hours testing new ideas, new comps, ect. I was spying on nulli this year, watching their undock ect (no hard feelings lawl), and they are a perfect example of how a good team does it. They saw hydra's setups, and instead of spending thousands of hours making their own meta chain, they skipped a lot of steps, borrowed all of hydra's teams, and flew the hell out of them to improve them as much as possible.


So you want the good teams, with a large amount of time for theorycrafting, an awesome playerbase and a lot of training time, to show all the good setups in the two first weekends, that the "bad" teams get the oppurtuniy to get in a later stage of the tournament?

If you can field only one or two setups, because you know your setups are good, why should you show your better setups before you need them? oO


When did i say i wanted the 'good' teams to show all their best setups? This isnt how the tournament works, friend. Look at PL. We fielded several, mid tier, strong setups in the opening weeks. First, they took hundreds of hours to test, and second, there is no way a smaller team has the time or the pilots to test the amount of variety we showed even in the first few weeks properly and get it nailed. We didnt show ANY of our strongest setups until at least the semis. They were all reasonably good teams which we thought we could rely on to get us into the semis.

Hydra showed one. They could afford to, because they had two teams running it. They could rely on their pilots to pull them through it. It's risky yeah, but everyone knows hydra are a good team. This is what irks me so much. They don't need to do this kind of collusion **** to place well in the tourney, they do it to make money. They took the risk of not showing anything, to not give anything away to the smaller teams, drastically reducing those teams chances of getting further up the rankings.

Look at past tournaments, look at teams like the huns, or exodus, or shadow cartel, they have awesome pilots, and when they placed highly, and gave the best matches, the best drama, and the best upsets, coming close to placing, they did so by copying other teams setups and absolutely nailing the piloting. When hydra started pulling this ****, they stood far less of a chance. Only teams who can dedicate thousands of hours have a chance to place now, and the small teams with the good pilots, the good captains, and who put just as much effort in as we did, dont get to place because they only have 20 pilots instead of 60.

As for the Nulli argument, Nulli, to my knowledge, did not intentionally tell each other to fly the same setups every match. Go look at what they fielded compared to hydra, and you will see they had no such agreement, they were both in it to win. The problem was they were using teams copied from hydra, who only showed one team of nulli's and Hk's entire tournament this year. There's a difference there, I dont really care if you don't see it alt corp guy.

The problem is, a lot of people in this thread don't follow the tournament enough, dont get into the meta enough, and dont understand what is going on enough to really get how much **** like this hurts the tournament. Not all of you are nerds like me, I get it. Most of you know something is wrong, something is unfair, but when you really get into it there is a lot more going on than on the surface, and unless I was to spend 3 hours writing a post of everything that has gone on over the last 5 years in tournament history from someone who was heavily involved in the meta, spending hundreds of hours on it, then I'm afraid you're either going to have to go do the research yourselves, or trust me. Or, keep believing whatever you like because 'you dont like PL'. Nothing I have said so far is about PL.

MissBolyai
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#145 - 2015-09-15 14:08:01 UTC
Sarah xCalibre wrote:
Find it funny how so many people outside Camel and Hydra know what was going on, exactly what was said and how it was done but in all honest truth you know jack ****, you can guess but that doesnt make it true. Just cause someone post a snippet of a log (that can be fake) doesnt make anything true, how about we let ccp judge this at their best, hearsayin isnt proof in any case.
However if it is true ccp it should be dealt with accordingly, everyone knew the rules when entering.

Now lets take our sticky fingers out of this messs and let ccp do their job since its not ours but theirs to do. We got a year almost to discuss improvements for next AT and it should/need to be discussed. If this is true you forget about the 90% of the pilots DHB think was legit as well stop diminishing their hard work in this.

I really like the CSM person for the AT idea but I think its hard for a single person to be totally objective if not near impossible.

" I was spying on nulli this year, watching their undock ect (no hard feelings lawl), and they are a perfect example of how a good team does it. They saw hydra's setups, and instead of spending thousands of hours making their own meta chain, they skipped a lot of steps, borrowed all of hydra's teams, and flew the hell out of them to improve them as much as possible."

Oh oh, so Nulli and other corps are allowed to copy Warlord setups but Camel isnt as sparring partners? Think that statement is really weird. Have any other teams that practiced against eachother been looked into about this? Hardly think so, but since its the winning team they arent allowed to, I see. Or is Nulli in the collusion as well now?! Everything you say and do here is just so PL could have a better chance next year and thats about it, you are so undermining everything, well played.


lmao what? I think you've missed something. We never claimed to know exactly what they were doing (OK, Rive did, but in fairness he claims that he had a better idea for the wheel, so take his comments with a silo of salt). The reason that we (and I can say 'we' as I'm the official voice of the PL Tournament team) have said from the outset that they colluded is because we knew enough of the meta to recognize how small variations of a team would impact the matches, and when we saw it, it was obvious. Much like the trained weatherman that sees a thunderstorm in Africa and knows that it will become a hurricane in the Atlantic, our expert team could see the minor tweaks Hydra and Camel used as the true indicators that they were colluding. Sorry if you don't get it, it takes a trained eye.

The Official Stance of PL on this is that we got outplayed by both Hydra and Camel, and that they out-performed us on the final day. However, if you think that they didn't have an advantage because they had to beat us in 50% of their matches against us or that we had to beat them in 66% of our matches against them, then... well, I've got some land I'd like to sell you.
Blast x
Doomheim
#146 - 2015-09-15 14:08:49 UTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYE8eCXfcM8


01:25:58 web/dmg on water ubersnot
01:26:02 reps apply
4seconds

01:26:58 TP on other chremoa
01:27:01 dmg registeres
01:27:02 reps active
4seconds

02:26:36 tp active on vulture wildcat
02:26:39 pre reps active
3-4seconds

03:50:50 target painter on lord carlos
03:50:54 pre reps active
4seconds

03:50:39 tp on leokokim
03:50:42 dmg registers
03:50:44 reps land
4-5seconds

03:50:51 leokim dies
03:50:52 dmg on gvjak
03:50:54 reps land
3-4seconds

(bouth warlords and camel logies reactions)

above looks NOT "fake"


below looks "fake"

04:27:20 webs on stiletto
04:27:28 pre reps active
8seconds

04:27:58 web achiles bomber
8seconds
04:28:06 pre repped
04:28:14 dmg registers on achiles
04:28:17 web on dreynar
04:28:18 dmg registeres on dreynar
5seconds
04:28:23 reps take off achiles
3seconds
04:28:26 reps active on dreynar


logi actions take 2x time + general confusion in the final last match?
30mins earlier was fine.
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#147 - 2015-09-15 14:10:28 UTC
Jamir Von Lietuva wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
Citricioni wrote:
Quote:
For example, if two teams that are facing each other agree together to bring setups that contain certain ships and/or do not contain other ships this will be considered a violation of the AT rules.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4683141#post4683141

Still see no problem in sharing setups pre match. If you train together, you share setups automatically, where is the problem? oO


The problem becomes when these teams consistently bring the same setups to every match like hydra did. We saw virtually nothing from either team except TFI variations until almost the finals, or when they faced us. The reason this is so important is smaller teams tend to not have as strong a theorycrafting base, or the pilots available to run thousands of hours of tests like ourselves or hydra do. This means the smaller teams end up monitoring the bigger team's meta chain, to see what setups are likely to be strong.

This is huge for the smaller teams, as copying setups is a key part of getting to the later stages of the tournament for them. It's a shortcut, it means they dont have to spend thousands of hours testing new ideas, new comps, ect. I was spying on nulli this year, watching their undock ect (no hard feelings lawl), and they are a perfect example of how a good team does it. They saw hydra's setups, and instead of spending thousands of hours making their own meta chain, they skipped a lot of steps, borrowed all of hydra's teams, and flew the hell out of them to improve them as much as possible.

This year, by reducing the number of setups they revealed, not only did hydra stop every single team from doing this, and massively reduced their chances of beating them, but they also did it with two teams, doubling their chances of getting at least one to the finals. What we ended up with was effectively the same team, except flying twice in the finals. We had to face one of them, beat them, kill their flagship, and then in a very short time period, had to face them AGAIN, have to beat them again, and kill their flagship again. Our entire team was exchausted, stressed, and put at a massive disadvantage. We had to play 6 matches against them, while they only had to play 3, as new pilots and all new ships were drafted in after the first three matches.

This is a problem in itself, but the real kicker is the fact they deliberately communicated to reduce the amount of setups shown, they deliberately communicated which bans to pick, and set out the strategy between the two teams to get them into the finals. Everything was shared, everything they did was intentional (i wouldnt be surprised if dropping one into the losers bracket was planned too). This to me, is collusion. However, not as CCP defines it. I feel this is as bad however, as sharing ships, fixing the finals (it didnt matter at that point anyway other than it saved them a bit of isk having to field more uniques), and generally doing so, so blazenly that everyone knew but could do nothing about it.

What we need to see is the proof that they fixed the final matches, and shared the winnings. Everything else is technically irellevant for the 2015 tournament. however, the collusion which is technically collusion but not really because fozzie doesnt understand how important it is, is the thing that really need to change.


been a part of Nulli team this year, we haven't "seen" hydra setups, pretty sure anyone that has half a brain came up with TFIs on their own, main thing why we flew TFIs for most of the matches is just because that is how "The HUNs" roll, they like taking least vulnerable thing and fly/craft the **** out of it (see Triple Vargurs for a good example). We had other setups, but phoons were the safest bet.

this whole drama is great btw i'm enjoying my popcorn so far


haha keep evading. I know you were practising TFI teams at the start, I know that those teams were found sub par when hydra brought their TFI team, I know you reshuffled your TFI team and i know you tested the only other setup hydra fielded the DAY after hydra fielded it. You know when I was sat on the station? Yeah.

Don't get me wrong, the huns are great pilots, but you're not the best theorycrafters. You deserve to place high, and I know what you were doing with HK this year was all above board. I'm not coming at you. We're rivals, but think objectively about this. You know you were thoroughly testing hydra setups, you know you modified your teams heavily after the first few games you played. Yeah huns tested tfis beforehand to their credit, but they didnt exactly invent the idea, you copied it from the non ccp tournaments. TFI teams, quite frankly, are mid tier, theyre okay, but they're a pretty small rock in the game of rock paper scissors lizard spock which is the final few days.

My worry is huns will take what they did this year, which was fair enough, and start to get more shady, with a lot of other teams, and start doing this kind of thing more and more. You don't need to, it stinks, ruins the tournament. Huns can place well without the need for doing this kind of ****. The times you beat us, you deserved it. There's nothing wrong with copying teams, and huns are the best at it out there.
Hoodie Mafia
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#148 - 2015-09-15 14:11:20 UTC
Looking at your comments I think you wasted a lot of time on our undock Rive
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#149 - 2015-09-15 14:25:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Rive
Hoodie Mafia wrote:
Looking at your comments I think you wasted a lot of time on our undock Rive


uh huh. The beauty of being a theorycrafter for 8 years is you get to know how people run their teams almost as well as they do. Why do you think you got smashed so hard this year by us after last year's performance? Hint: I was busy last year :3.

No h8 though, you guys did nothing wrong, you deserved to place higher, and your piloting was good. If the rules dont change, we might have to talk if nulli aren't around for next year. Who knows? If we get to talking, I might show you how much intel we actually had on you, maybe even why.
Hoodie Mafia
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#150 - 2015-09-15 14:28:56 UTC
Mr Rive wrote:
Hoodie Mafia wrote:
Looking at your comments I think you wasted a lot of time on our undock Rive


uh huh. The beauty of being a theorycrafter for 8 years is you get to know how people run their teams almost as well as they do. Why do you think you got smashed so hard this year by us after last year's performance? Hint: I was busy last year :3.

No h8 though, you guys did nothing wrong, you deserved to place higher, and your piloting was good. If the rules dont change, we might have to talk if nulli aren't around for next year. Who knows? If we get to talking, I might show you how much intel we actually had on you, maybe even why.


You are tunnelvisioning Rive, I don't fly for Nulli
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#151 - 2015-09-15 14:31:54 UTC
Hoodie Mafia wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
Hoodie Mafia wrote:
Looking at your comments I think you wasted a lot of time on our undock Rive


uh huh. The beauty of being a theorycrafter for 8 years is you get to know how people run their teams almost as well as they do. Why do you think you got smashed so hard this year by us after last year's performance? Hint: I was busy last year :3.

No h8 though, you guys did nothing wrong, you deserved to place higher, and your piloting was good. If the rules dont change, we might have to talk if nulli aren't around for next year. Who knows? If we get to talking, I might show you how much intel we actually had on you, maybe even why.


You are tunnelvisioning Rive, I don't fly for Nulli


no but you fly with them. The difference between the two of you, is I think HK has better theorycrafters. You two were a dangerous combination together. We were almost as scared of you as we were of hydra, if you had played the game a little differently it would have been you two on the top and us in third. Unfortunately for you, you didnt play dirty enough.
Hoodie Mafia
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#152 - 2015-09-15 14:34:16 UTC
Guess well just have to play better next year eh?
Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#153 - 2015-09-15 14:39:58 UTC
overpunishment or riot
Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#154 - 2015-09-15 14:43:38 UTC
This thread is getting way off-topic, but the idea that "lesser" teams such as Exodus, Nulli, Shadow, and HKX just sit around waiting for PL or Hydra to show a comp and then run off to imitate it is completely ridiculous. Several teams (us, Exodus, HKX) ran a variant of the double floon comp on the first day of the tournament - the only way we/they could've been copying Hydra is if we had a spy in the warlords/camel testing wormhole. Nobody was copying Hydra's setups, you just had a lot of teams independently settling on double floon comps as solid setups for the opening rounds of the tournament.
Tzuko1
The All-Seeing Eye
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#155 - 2015-09-15 14:52:33 UTC
Mr Rive wrote:
Hoodie Mafia wrote:
Looking at your comments I think you wasted a lot of time on our undock Rive


uh huh. The beauty of being a theorycrafter for 8 years is you get to know how people run their teams almost as well as they do. Why do you think you got smashed so hard this year by us after last year's performance? Hint: I was busy last year :3.

No h8 though, you guys did nothing wrong, you deserved to place higher, and your piloting was good. If the rules dont change, we might have to talk if nulli aren't around for next year. Who knows? If we get to talking, I might show you how much intel we actually had on you, maybe even why.


We used typhoons since practice day 2. Its our weakness we havemt practiced ECM well enough so you got us there.... dont vision in we copy paste only jesus.... if you had intel enough, you could have known we had TFIs very early. We couldnt get anything special out this year unfortunatelly. AND most importantly null team wasnt HUN for most part now, we had a lot nulli dudes in but mostly from one corp.

And i am sorry rive but you are part of the AT problem with your spying all the time. If you had enough intel as you say so than your win wasnt Clear just like the mentioned two teams....
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#156 - 2015-09-15 15:08:01 UTC
Skyler Hawk wrote:
This thread is getting way off-topic, but the idea that "lesser" teams such as Exodus, Nulli, Shadow, and HKX just sit around waiting for PL or Hydra to show a comp and then run off to imitate it is completely ridiculous. Several teams (us, Exodus, HKX) ran a variant of the double floon comp on the first day of the tournament - the only way we/they could've been copying Hydra is if we had a spy in the warlords/camel testing wormhole. Nobody was copying Hydra's setups, you just had a lot of teams independently settling on double floon comps as solid setups for the opening rounds of the tournament.


i never said they were lesser teams, i never said they didnt theorycraft their own setups, they have to, what i said was the smaller teams dont have the manpower to spend thousands of hours testing dozens of iterations of dozens of setups to come up with the entire meta chain. I never said double floon comps weren't solid for the opening rounds, i said they were a small rock in the later rounds.
Joe Public
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#157 - 2015-09-15 15:11:01 UTC
I don't know why you are all wasting your time shitting up this terrible thread.

Haven't you got an Alliance Tournament to prepare for?
Citricioni
#158 - 2015-09-15 15:12:47 UTC
Mr Rive wrote:
Skyler Hawk wrote:
This thread is getting way off-topic, but the idea that "lesser" teams such as Exodus, Nulli, Shadow, and HKX just sit around waiting for PL or Hydra to show a comp and then run off to imitate it is completely ridiculous. Several teams (us, Exodus, HKX) ran a variant of the double floon comp on the first day of the tournament - the only way we/they could've been copying Hydra is if we had a spy in the warlords/camel testing wormhole. Nobody was copying Hydra's setups, you just had a lot of teams independently settling on double floon comps as solid setups for the opening rounds of the tournament.


i never said they were lesser teams, i never said they didnt theorycraft their own setups, they have to, what i said was the smaller teams dont have the manpower to spend thousands of hours testing dozens of iterations of dozens of setups to come up with the entire meta chain. I never said double floon comps weren't solid for the opening rounds, i said they were a small rock in the later rounds.



PLs first loss in the AT, was against a "Typhoon + Typhoon Fleet" Setup, so you lost the first match against a "small rock"
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#159 - 2015-09-15 15:13:33 UTC
Tzuko1 wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
Hoodie Mafia wrote:
Looking at your comments I think you wasted a lot of time on our undock Rive


uh huh. The beauty of being a theorycrafter for 8 years is you get to know how people run their teams almost as well as they do. Why do you think you got smashed so hard this year by us after last year's performance? Hint: I was busy last year :3.

No h8 though, you guys did nothing wrong, you deserved to place higher, and your piloting was good. If the rules dont change, we might have to talk if nulli aren't around for next year. Who knows? If we get to talking, I might show you how much intel we actually had on you, maybe even why.


We used typhoons since practice day 2. Its our weakness we havemt practiced ECM well enough so you got us there.... dont vision in we copy paste only jesus.... if you had intel enough, you could have known we had TFIs very early. We couldnt get anything special out this year unfortunatelly. AND most importantly null team wasnt HUN for most part now, we had a lot nulli dudes in but mostly from one corp.

And i am sorry rive but you are part of the AT problem with your spying all the time. If you had enough intel as you say so than your win wasnt Clear just like the mentioned two teams....



If you read the other post I wrote, you would see exactly what I said about you having tfi teams from the start.

I had a lot more intel than you think, but as to how we got it, ive been told to keep you guessing. I wanted to smug about it. Oh well.

I goddamn HATE spying, I HATE raivi for bringing this kind of crap into the game. I hate doing it, i hate others doing it to us, I have always said that. The problem is you have to spy to place well, we may well have still beaten you without spying, whose to say, all i can say is that without the spying we would never have beaten you so convincingly. I stepped up this year and did it because everyone had their fingers in their butts. If you read my post history in this thread, and get what I mean, you wont be able to deny that I'm right on most counts.

To be frank, I dont particularly like huns, not because I think you're stupid, or because I think your bad, but because posting like you did above just shows to me you're not mature enough to understand how the tournament has and always has worked. I want it to change, I really do. I sincerely hope next year will be better with the bubbles.

That all being said, youre a reasonably solid opponent, and I respect what you have done over the years for the alliances you were in.
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#160 - 2015-09-15 15:14:33 UTC
Joe Public wrote:
I don't know why you are all wasting your time shitting up this terrible thread.

Haven't you got an Alliance Tournament to prepare for?


Yeah we have to start choosing who we are going to share all our setups and prizes with and what setups to bring every match~