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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

First post First post
Author
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#3201 - 2015-09-14 20:23:30 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Well, I guess we are back to the point that if there is no problem with them being AFK, there is no problem with removing the AFK campers from the equation.

You don't get to have it both ways. Either they are dangerous and having a real effect, or they are not dangerous and have no point in being there in the first place.

I am not switching between AFK and non-afk. You are dancing around the distinction of the cloak being so safe it allows afk, and the irrelevant point of if they happen to be afk or not. The problem with the AFK camper isn't the afk, its the broken and overpowered safety in space provided by the cloak.

Teckos Pech wrote:
And again, CCP has pointed out that in this game that when you undock, you should generally face some degree of risk. And that applies to freighters in HS too.


I see that you acknowledge that's how it's supposed to be. Now lets see some support for making it that way for people who happen to be using cloaks while undocked.


Oh FFS Mike, I've been making this point for a very long time. AFK cloaking is not good game play and it needs to change. Your problem is you don’t like my suggested changes. Roll

Moreover, I am not in favor of giving you extra security while ratting. You do not deserve it. Nor does any other ratter out there.

You keep saying it is about game balance but you wouldn't know about game balance if it jumped out a bush and shouted Boo at you. You simply want to nerf cloaks. That is not at all about game balance because in many instances nerf to one thing is an indirect buff to something else. Simply nerfing cloaks so that you can “hunt them” is an indirect buff to your ratting. Why do you deserve that buff? You never answer this question.


You mean the suggested change that effectively turns all space into wormhole space except with Cynos and stable gates?

Yeah, that will work out well for everyone.


Wow, such amazing dishonesty from the one who runs around calling others liars.

Really Mike, have I not written that I'd even be in favor of having the OA work as a network, meaning you might be able to see not only who is in system with you, but even get some intel on other systems that are part of the network? That is a buff to in-game intel.

Stop being just a prissy snot.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3202 - 2015-09-14 21:15:59 UTC
Intel networks? Hey, now there's a good one!

Another thing I could conceive in my wildest dreams, is flying off the beacon. Jumping your carrier to some random location, completely ignoring the jumpgate network, and setting up a chain of custom (pirate) bridges that way.

Not sure if that's how it's going to happen; CCP seems to be under enough pressure as it is just releasing the POS/Outpost Mark II structures, and trying to come up with a reason why we'd want to get a Dread nowadays.

Any changes to code, would most likely be minor. One can only hope .....
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#3203 - 2015-09-14 22:39:52 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Intel networks? Hey, now there's a good one!

Another thing I could conceive in my wildest dreams, is flying off the beacon. Jumping your carrier to some random location, completely ignoring the jumpgate network, and setting up a chain of custom (pirate) bridges that way.

Not sure if that's how it's going to happen; CCP seems to be under enough pressure as it is just releasing the POS/Outpost Mark II structures, and trying to come up with a reason why we'd want to get a Dread nowadays.

Any changes to code, would most likely be minor. One can only hope .....


Geez, only goes back like 100 pages or more. Sheesh. P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3204 - 2015-09-15 06:31:05 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
You keep saying it is about game balance but you wouldn't know about game balance if it jumped out a bush and shouted Boo at you.
Oh the irony.

Teckos Pech wrote:
Auto loggoff basically gives away free intel.

--Guy is in system.
--Not on d-scan or probes.
--Auto Loggoff is AFK

Conclusion: Active cloaking ship. System unsafe. Dock up/safe up. Content denied.

Oh wait, Lucas said that couldn't happen. P
Intel for a minimal number of people. Most would still have just moved elsewhere to rat. And once again, the alternative is "leave in AFK cloaking". This is what you can;t seem to get into your head. You're literally saying that because a handful of people would be in theory safer (yet in practice just as in danger) that CCP should keep in an obviously broken mechanic that is biased towards certain timezones. And let's face it, you're only saying it because you're still trying to push for a massive buff to an already overpowered playstyle. Amusingly, there's Nikk sitting there suggesting we actually stop people even being able to interfere with a PvE player AT ALL until they finish their anom, and you're still yet to berate him about it.

Teckos Pech wrote:
1 trillion ISK/day. You think that number needs to go higher?
You still don't understand what that number is made of or what it means. That number will go higher whether you like it or not, hell it already will have done from the sov changes. Why weren't you there screaming when CCP buffed null anom quantities? The thing that will have no impact (or as close to no impact as to make it indistinguishable) is AFK cloaking.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3205 - 2015-09-15 06:36:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
There is a much bigger issue with an auto logoff feature. It would be exploited mercilessly. Auto logoff of a cloaked player would happen one of two ways.

1. They decloak for 30 seconds before logging out as happens now. This would eliminate virtually all cloaked play from the game. If you are anywhere but in friendly territory, decloaking for 30 seconds means anyone semi-decent at scanning will have the exact location of where you logged out. This means no one would hunt anymore in areas where they couldn't find some place to dock or POS up. That's a huge nerf to emergent play/anything but mindless pre-planned fleet battles.

2. You log off in space while cloaked after not pressing a key for xx time period. Now we just massively buffed moving any high value ship. Moving a super/high value cargo? Someone knows you are in the system and wants to camp you? Don't wait until downtime to log off anymore, just wait an hour or two and the client automagically safes up your ship! Now hunting high value targets is significantly more difficult.

The fact is any nerf to cloaking ATM harms PvP and helps risk averse ratters and miners. Helping the risk averse is flat out counter to the heart of EVE, and given how few fights actually take place as it is, buffing PvE at the expense of PvP is simply not something anyone should want.
Only if you're really bad at thinking.

Cloakers would be logged off safely as in scenario 2. It would have no impact on people moving big ships. Think about it. You are moving a high value ship around right now. You cloak up in a safe because someone is hunting you. You leave your computer logged on and you go to bed. Downtime saves you. Either way, being cloaked and waiting is the way to be safe.

If you actually think about it, you're slightly less safe, because you can no longer see what's around you once you get auto logged off, meaning if you choose to log back in on the same day, the hunter might still be there, and when you log in you'll decloak just like now whereas before the hunter might get bored after an hour and you'd see he left and continue your journey.

Cidanel Afuran wrote:
Scenario 2, a LOT is changed. Now you have less time to try and decloak that gnasty high value ship, the guy flying it will now know exactly when to log back in thanks to his NPC scout.
If you haven't decloaked him in 2 hours, you're not decloaking him, and the situation remains as it is now.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3206 - 2015-09-15 06:44:20 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Incursions are about 1/3rd of that amount. That is together rat bounties and incursions are about 1.3-1.4 trillion ISK/day.

I agree, I think switching NS over entirely to mission, even in sov NS would be better. Missions that provide LP act as a sink. Letting the rats vary by region to some degree would lead to different tanks on the NS mission fits making it harder for people looking to kill such ships (i.e. you wont know exactly where the resist hole is). It also scales with number of players in a system, so you could have 5 guys doing missions or 50. In the latter case, who cares if there is an AFK camper there is you ahve 50 guys out in the system doing stuff. He attacks you got 49 other guys to come back you up.
No thanks, I like the economy existing.

This is the problem with you "grr inflation" types, you have no idea how the economy works and don't realise that isk flowing in is a necessity. If they dropped NS to missions they'd have to find a few hundred b a day to inject somewhere else to balance it back out.

Stop looking at PLEX and making assumptions about the economy. Look at something like tritanium and marvel at the stability.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Sitting Bull Lakota
Poppins and Company
#3207 - 2015-09-15 10:45:12 UTC
Based on my relatively recent vacation to the back of Tenal, I feel that I now have some level of firsthand experience with this topic.

My trusty pilgrim and I spent two days deep in someone else's NBSI, namely Razor Alliance.

I have to agree that local gives a lot of intel to every person who jumps into a system.
Local tells me when I'm alone; when the system's usual residents are in; and when the local "cops" have a fleet after me.
That's what I get out of it.
They, the system's residents, get to know the instant I enter or leave their space. A handy bit of information.
Is it too much intel?
Maybe.
How could it be changed?
Later.

As I found, the Schrodinger's AFK Cloaker Paradox had differing effects based on the players. In one system, there was a dude happily ratting while I was cloaking my way around system.
I thiught it was odd to be out ratting while a neutral was in system, so I assumed it was a trap. I was right. A Sabre joined our tango. It didn't work out as well as it should have for our hero in the pilgrim, but I did make iff with a rather nice Sabre mail and my ship still intact.
A few jumps away I perched myself again and went "AFK" to see what would happen. The system was basically dead. They started a conversation in local and clickbaited me into a chat channel, proving that I was not AFK. The system got even deader. I'd not considered using clickbait to trick a supposed AFK dude into revealing himself, so I cheered their ploy.
One more system over, the residents put out the call that there was a possibly non-AFK cloaky in their system. A member corp mobilised a strike team (or one dude with alts. I don't alt; I can't spot the difference) of svipuls and cynabals to bubble and camp the system's exits while a covops dropped probes to try to scan down any trace of me. No such luck for them. I found a way out and dissappeared into someone else's backyard.

Now, I was just out doing some recreational AFK cloaking. In wartime, a few well placed campers can probably do quite a bit to slow down the isk/hr or a region's residents. At least by forcing them to dedicate some resources to defense against the maybe-not-AFK cloaker. But, that's all in the game.

Solution? The three most common ones are: A) Cloak shouldn't be indefinite; B) Add probes that can scan down cloaks; C) Change local so it isn't the one-stop intel source.

A) This one goes a bit too far in nerfing cloaks. Plus, cloaks aren't the only way to dodge probes and dscan.
B) Maybe. Would need a lot of work to keep it from being the standard for probing. There is potential for a new tech II destroyer here: hunter-killer vlass with bonus to expanded and anti-covert launchers. Does destroyer damage with light cruiser tank. Somewhere in the 400 dps range with 18kehp. I'm looking at 75m baseline.
C) Popular with the cloaking crowd, and the option I would favor as well.


My plan to change local:
0.8-1.0 high sec stays as is with local. Most of these systems are high trafficked bastiins of the faction empires (according to lore).
0.5-0.7 high sec has a delay*** in character names showing up in local of (CONCORD response time x 10 x difference between system security and 1.0 security)
I.E. Joe jumps into a 0.5 system. Assuming a 25 second CONCORD time, his name won't show up for 125 seconds. (25x(10(1.0-0.5)))
Jane jumps into a 0.7 system. Assuming a 15 second CONCORD time, her name won't show up for 45 seconds.

0.1-0.4 low sec could use a flat rate of 30 seconds x 6 for a 180 second delay*** (just to keep it simple, this is probably too long) because it is basically lawless amd undeveloped empire territory.

0.0- -1.0 would be no name shows up unless the system is developed. We have a bunch of new structures pending, surely one of them could be a communications array. Allow players to reinforce their own Local chats.
Developement would scale up to equivalent of 0.8-1.0 high sec (reserved for alliance and coalition level home syatems and staging systems. Most systems would only be feasible to raise to low sec equivalent, with a few rising to 0.5-0.7 status)

I am of the opinion that afk cloaky camping is an issue based on reliance on local for intel. This idea would make local less reliable without gutting it.
So there's my solution.
Option B and option C woven into a new local chat system and the introduction of a new probe used with expanded launchers and new tech II destroyer hulls built to catch and kill ships in hiding spots.


*** The delay could work like this: All players get an empty name box and silohuette portrait with a '?' in local chat when they jump into a system. Local chat would still say how many are in system, just not who they are. The name and portrait don't fill in until after the delay finishes or when the player types in local, whichever comes first.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3208 - 2015-09-15 11:14:56 UTC
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:
A) Cloak shouldn't be indefinite;

A) This one goes a bit too far in nerfing cloaks. Plus, cloaks aren't the only way to dodge probes and dscan.
It wouldn't affect active players, since they could just reset whatever it is that prevents it being permanent. Cloaks are the only way to avoid being probed down without being in the same building as your PC.

Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:
B) Add probes that can scan down cloaks;

B) Maybe. Would need a lot of work to keep it from being the standard for probing. There is potential for a new tech II destroyer here: hunter-killer vlass with bonus to expanded and anti-covert launchers. Does destroyer damage with light cruiser tank. Somewhere in the 400 dps range with 18kehp. I'm looking at 75m baseline.
While it sounds great on paper to those eager to hunt cloakers, try probing down an active frigate, even without a cloak. Good luck with that. All this would do is eliminate a benefit of cloaking without actually creating much content. It would just mean cloakers have to go find somewhere truly safe to go take a bio. I have no issue with people having the ability to go short term AFK in hostile space, but long-term is the issue.

Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:
C) Change local so it isn't the one-stop intel source.

C) Popular with the cloaking crowd, and the option I would favor as well.
Of course you would, it's a massive benefit to your playstyle. The problem is that most of null would empty out quicker than you can blink, with many of them simply dropping subs on their alts. Think about it. Why would people sit around in nullsec when they could go to wormhole space, make more isk and be safe from cynos? Sure, there might be structures that give you intel, but then it's split. Those who don't have structures are worse off than WH space, while those who have them have nothing changed but have the additional tedium of yet another structure to babysit.

Why not just log people out safely if they have been AFK for more than an hour. AFK cloaking is solved, as is jita overpopulation and the vast majority of other players are unaffected.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#3209 - 2015-09-15 17:06:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Cidanel Afuran
Lucas Kell wrote:
Only if you're really bad at thinking.

Cloakers would be logged off safely as in scenario 2. It would have no impact on people moving big ships. Think about it. You are moving a high value ship around right now. You cloak up in a safe because someone is hunting you. You leave your computer logged on and you go to bed. Downtime saves you. Either way, being cloaked and waiting is the way to be safe.

If you actually think about it, you're slightly less safe, because you can no longer see what's around you once you get auto logged off, meaning if you choose to log back in on the same day, the hunter might still be there, and when you log in you'll decloak just like now whereas before the hunter might get bored after an hour and you'd see he left and continue your journey.


I, too move high value ships without a few alt scout accounts. Don't tell me you actually log in blind in high value ships without scouting first.

Do you listen to yourself when you talk?

You are now saved hours before downtime, letting you move high value ships faster (ie, when the system clears out before downtime), giving hunters less of a chance to catch you.

As with everything you have said in this thread, a buff to bears.

Go back to station trading. It seems that's the only thing you know about in EVE.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3210 - 2015-09-15 19:50:25 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
You are now saved hours before downtime, letting you move high value ships faster (ie, when the system clears out before downtime), giving hunters less of a chance to catch you.
No you aren't lol. You're saved at exactly the same time, when the hunter gets bored or removed. If you get safe logged off, they can still camp there until downtime to see if you make a move. The only difference is they now get a notification when you make an attempt by having you watchlisted, whereas before they had to actively watch the scanner.

Your repeated personal attacks don't change the fact that you are wrong.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#3211 - 2015-09-15 20:00:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Cidanel Afuran
Lucas Kell wrote:
No you aren't lol. You're saved at exactly the same time, when the hunter gets bored or removed. If you get safe logged off, they can still camp there until downtime to see if you make a move. The only difference is they now get a notification when you make an attempt by having you watchlisted, whereas before they had to actively watch the scanner.

Your repeated personal attacks don't change the fact that you are wrong.


I started out talking intelligently. That went out the window when you proved to be a carebear who wants to give ratters/miners easymode ways to do what they do, and refuses to think with an ounce of creativity.

For the 1000th time, no one cloaked has ever made a single ISK while cloaked and has never killed a single person. Working as intended.

Go back to station trading and easymode massive fleet battles. Both those activities suit the risk averse well.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3212 - 2015-09-15 21:10:21 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
I started out talking intelligently. That went out the window when you proved to be a carebear who wants to give ratters/miners easymode ways to do what they do, and refuses to think with an ounce of creativity.
No, you started off misreading and making massive assumptions which you have continued to do.

Cidanel Afuran wrote:
For the 1000th time, no one cloaked has ever made a single ISK while cloaked and has never killed a single person. Working as intended.

Go back to station trading and easymode massive fleet battles. Both those activities suit the risk averse well.
So... The game isn't just about making isk mate. Simple fact is that if AFK cloaking did nothing and had no impact, then noone would do it, so obviously it does. I see now you have conceded that it wouldn't magically make supers safer to log pilots off, so you've gone back to "It's OK for cloakers to be completely risk free while AFKing in space, because they don't make ISK". and yet you claim I'm the carebear? Laughable.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#3213 - 2015-09-15 21:32:17 UTC
Regarding cloaking, and the most popular opinions I have noted about it.

I see this happening:
Probable OA function
Possible to detect cloaked shipping, but exclusively in sov null.
Trade off to this, will be vulnerability to intel presumed safe in local's hands.
Method? Hacking or component destruction.

Reason: Cloaking has evolved to have a context. When it impacts other players most directly, as described by AFK Cloaking here to counter PvE activity, it will be made vulnerable...
...in exchange for PvE's automated intel source becoming vulnerable as well.

No wormhole change.
No NPC space change.
No high sec change.

The details will likely evolve to reinforce this new dynamic.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3214 - 2015-09-15 21:58:17 UTC
You very may well be right that those things will come in. Whether or not that is a good thing is up to debate. I imagine if that does happen there will be a further heavy knock to the user count .

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#3215 - 2015-09-15 22:14:26 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
No, you started off misreading and making massive assumptions which you have continued to do.

So far you have refused to even respond to the very legitimate reasons someone would be AFK while not docked/POSed. Can you address those please?

Have you ever lived somewhere where you couldn't always dock?

[quote]So... The game isn't just about making isk mate. Simple fact is that if AFK cloaking did nothing and had no impact, then noone would do it, so obviously it does. I see now you have conceded that it wouldn't magically make supers safer to log pilots off, so you've gone back to "It's OK for cloakers to be completely risk free while AFKing in space, because they don't make ISK". and yet you claim I'm the carebear? Laughable.


...obviously it isn't just about making ISK. I'm the one calling for nerfs to miners and ratters. Reading iz hard.

You have yet to explain why an AFK cloaker is a threat, other than oh noez! the ratters and miners refuse to undock in PvP fits!

Station trader? check.
Living in the safest part of space? check.
Spends hundreds of pages defending miners and ratters? check.

Yeup, looks like a carebear to me.

If I didn't have so many friends in SMA, I would camp an alt out there the next time my chain opens in your space at this point in the conversation.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#3216 - 2015-09-15 22:14:31 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
You very may well be right that those things will come in. Whether or not that is a good thing is up to debate. I imagine if that does happen there will be a further heavy knock to the user count .

I would not presume that knock so certain.

This would effectively ignore cloaking except in sov null, and by hostile players exclusively.

It will do little more than grant both sides an opportunity to push their efforts, in the hopes that they will outperform their opponents.
Those who want to actually play, as opposed to grind while watching netflix, will have the advantage.

Now, I am giving you a point on this detail, since I suspect a number of players do grind while watching netflix, and they might find their partial attention no longer enough to be safe.
They may well leave null, as the preferred PvE environment might become high sec, or something surprising even.

BUT, they were grinding ISK for a reason, and that reason is unlikely to vanish because of this, so they are not nearly as likely to quit EVE.
They still want to do whatever they were spending their ISK on.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3217 - 2015-09-15 22:28:48 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
You have yet to explain why an AFK cloaker is a threat, other than oh noez! the ratters and miners refuse to undock in PvP fits!
It does not good if they undock in PvP fits, does it? Nobody wants to spend all day messing around with someone who may not even be there, so they move on. It's straight up content denial from an inactive player who remain 100% safe while undocked using a mechanic that is biased for certain timezones. Like I said, if it did nothing, nobody would do it, but clearly it does.

Cidanel Afuran wrote:
Station trader? check.
Living in the safest part of space? check.
Spends hundreds of pages defending miners and ratters? check.

Yeup, looks like a carebear to me.
Then you don't know the definition. *shrug* Amusingly you're the one calling for a buff to your already overpowered and shockingly safe mechanic.

Cidanel Afuran wrote:
If I didn't have so many friends in SMA, I would camp an alt out there the next time my chain opens in your space at this point in the conversation.
And I'd not care, since the only ratting I do is in massive fleets for indices. You can AFK camp until the end of time if you want to.

This is now getting to the point that we're going in circles with you ccontinueing to make assumptions and insult me. So I tell you what, I'll make this simple. If you can;t post a civilised and adult response in this thread, I'll simply ignore you. Deal?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3218 - 2015-09-15 22:34:46 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
I would not presume that knock so certain.
Nullsec players dont; want to live in "WHs with cynos". Fact. The only people likely to stick around are a handful of the derps and the bigger blob groups, but even those would shrink to only essential alts.

Nikk Narrel wrote:
It will do little more than grant both sides an opportunity to push their efforts, in the hopes that they will outperform their opponents.
Those who want to actually play, as opposed to grind while watching netflix, will have the advantage.
No it won't. Active cloakers would still be uncatchable just like any other small active ship is. The only difference would be that cloakers would have an overwhelming advantage in systems where the intel is not available to the target.

Nikk Narrel wrote:
Now, I am giving you a point on this detail, since I suspect a number of players do grind while watching netflix, and they might find their partial attention no longer enough to be safe.
Partial attention is already unsafe. A decent hunter will ensure that.

Nikk Narrel wrote:
BUT, they were grinding ISK for a reason, and that reason is unlikely to vanish because of this, so they are not nearly as likely to quit EVE.
They still want to do whatever they were spending their ISK on.
Yet they've chosen to make ISK in null. Watching CCP butcher yet another mechanic will be the last straw for a lot of people. The fact is that beyond the benefit to cloakers, these mechanics would offer nothing but tedium. Yet another structure needing to be fueled and guarded and repped, and yet another element to keep an eye on just to be able to proceed with low level income generation. I'm all for new mechanics, but they have to be fun all round and balanced. These would not be.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#3219 - 2015-09-15 23:34:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Cidanel Afuran
Lucas Kell wrote:

stuffs


People would simply take less risks getting deep into hostile null, preventing even more PvP and simply making nullbears even safer.

Do you know what 'risk averse' means? You pick the safest way to earn isk in the game and pick the easiest way to get kills. Yes, I do know what the term carebear means.

Lucas, we get it. You don't want to actually live in null, defend your space, or participate beyond when someone posts a manditory op. You're the cause of null stagnation. Get a little creative with the game and you might have more fun.

Let's make a deal, if you agree to nerf local, I will agree to nerf cloaking, yeah?

for the nth time, an AFK cloaked ship can do absolutely no damage to a well organized null corp/alliance that has proper intel channels, proper procedures on reshipping when hostiles are in system, and proper standing defense fleets. Maybe you should spend less time in jita trading and more time joining/leading standing defense fleets in SMA space
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#3220 - 2015-09-16 03:57:01 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Regarding cloaking, and the most popular opinions I have noted about it.

I see this happening:
Probable OA function
Possible to detect cloaked shipping, but exclusively in sov null.
Trade off to this, will be vulnerability to intel presumed safe in local's hands.
Method? Hacking or component destruction.

Reason: Cloaking has evolved to have a context. When it impacts other players most directly, as described by AFK Cloaking here to counter PvE activity, it will be made vulnerable...
...in exchange for PvE's automated intel source becoming vulnerable as well.

No wormhole change.
No NPC space change.
No high sec change.

The details will likely evolve to reinforce this new dynamic.


OMG you want to kill EVE. [/end Lucas Kell Mode]

I think this is right...or pretty close too it.

A few points of interest...

1. I think the OA will be useful outside of NS as well, there have been hints it might find use in wormholes, possibly NPC null.
2. If the OA can be useful in w-space my guess is it will be useful in NPC space too.

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8 Golden Rules for EVE Online